Religion Folau

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Crankitup said:
RA apologised.

“The social media post reflected Mr Folau’s genuinely held religious beliefs, and Mr Folau did not intend to harm or offend any person when he uploaded the social media post,” RA said in its agreed statement. “While it was not Rugby Australia’s intention, Rugby Australia acknowledges and apologises for any hurt or harm caused to the Folaus.”

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In its non-legalistic and basic meaning, discrimination is the recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another. It’s one of the intellectual qualities that sets humans apart from less intelligent beings. Once again, RA chose to focus on the issue of “sexuality” — meaning homosexuality — when all of Australia now knows the player’s posting on Instagram was also aimed at drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators. RA decided to sanction its player because his social views did not accord with those they want to be seen to be supporting, in particular its powerful virtue-signalling sponsors like Qantas.

Tolerance is the human ability to accept the existence of opinions or behaviour that one dislikes. And preference is the liking for one option over another.
While I don’t hold Folau’s views, I prefer tolerance to discrimination. Folau published his comments to those who chose to follow him on Instagram, no one else. Don’t like them? Unfollow. End of story. I was hoping the case would get to court because there is a strong argument in Folau’s favour that would have made for an interesting adjudication on our freedoms.

RA has framed its whole action against Folau around the issue of homosexuality. However, the singular focus on his supposed discrimination against homosexuals is the very weakness in the argument. Folau’s post said: “Warning. Drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators. Hell awaits you. Repent! Only Jesus saves.” The very fact that Folau included homosexuals among a wide group of others he regards as sinners is proof he did not discriminate against them.
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Homosexuality isn't any more of a choice than being born black. If Folau posted that black people are the children of the devil, would you feel any differently about his "genuinely held religious beliefs"?
 

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When push comes to shove though, I concur with the below statement.

"RA has framed its whole action against Folau around the issue of homosexuality. However, the singular focus on his supposed discrimination against homosexuals is the very weakness in the argument. Folau’s post said: “Warning. Drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators. Hell awaits you. Repent! Only Jesus saves.” The very fact that Folau included homosexuals among a wide group of others he regards as sinners is proof he did not discriminate against them. And he certainly did not single homosexuals out for special treatment. In fact, he was being quite inclusive."
 
Gough said:
Who knows? That's what they're now reporting, I think the only thing we can all agree on here is that nobody really knows
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I think $3 million is the figure being bandied about, is more likely spin and damage control from RA/Castle’s personal PR team, given the emphasis in the reporting of the suggestion that Castle ‘personally’ negotiated with Izzy and talked him into taking such a ‘great’ deal.


Even if she did, shouldn’t save baldies job.
 
HairyO said:
The best bit is lefties siding with corporations wanting to take away individuals' rights to speak their mind.
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The best bit is righties thinking politics is only about barracking for a team.

Earth-shattering revelation coming for you here mate: most left-wingers accept that we live in a market economy.

Most left-wingers are not trying to impose a Soviet-style command economy on us.
 
Rettolalia said:
Based on what? More speculation?

If Folau stood to potentially make $14 mil, why would he walk away at anything close to only $3?
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You’re right that $3 million is based purely on speculation but you need to remember, so is your idea that he potentially stood to make $14mil.

He stood to “potentially” make $14mil like I “potentially” stand to make $50,000 if I put a rusting Datsun 120Y on eBay for that figure.
 

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Evolved1 said:
Homosexuality isn't any more of a choice than being born black. If Folau posted that black people are the children of the devil, would you feel any differently about his "genuinely held religious beliefs"?
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Are you sure? You are probably of the opinion that people are sexual automatons with no power of choice over their sexual behaviour. I disagree. I think it's definitely more of a choice than being born black. Many "gays" probably pander to society's prevailing view that they were "born that way" and "can't help it" but many others are more courageous and tell a much different story. They unashamedly and categorically affirm that for them it IS a choice.
 
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Neither side has covered themselves with glory here. Both put money ahead of their supposed principles.
 
Crankitup said:
Are you sure? You are probably of the opinion that people are sexual automatons with no power of choice over their sexual behaviour. I disagree. I think it's definitely more of a choice than being born black. Many "gays" probably pander to society's prevailing view that they were "born that way" and "can't help it" but many others are more courageous and tell a much different story. They unashamedly and categorically affirm that for them it IS a choice.
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So you're straight by choice ?

You could just as easily * men ?
 
Furn2 said:
So you're straight by choice ?

You could just as easily fu** men ?
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I believe the notion of 'being homosexual' itself is an artificial construct that makes it easy for society to label people. IMO the only choice being made is to act in one way or other but you shouldn't be forever defined by your actions per se. Now just because I can't see myself ever wanting to use an orifice that was deigned to evacuate human waste or something along those lines after many years of being perfectly happy with the female anatomy, doesn't mean others aren't capable of doing so. My mother worked with a man, who she became friends with who was initially happily married and then, (you would say) 'turned' gay, and that lasted 16 years. I met him and his male partner when I was young. Neither of them were overtly effeminate, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from any average male. He's now just as happy again with a woman. Somehow I don't think he saw himself as merely a helpless pawn reacting to his biology.

Someone who would agree with that sentiment is writer Lindsay Miller who said the following in an article published in the left-leaning Atlantic Magazine.

In direct opposition to both the mainstream gay movement and Lady Gaga, I would like to state for the record that I was not born this way. I have dated both men and women in the past, and when I've been with men, I never had to lie back and think of Megan Fox. I still notice attractive men on the street and on television. If I were terrified of the stigma associated with homosexuality, it would have been easy enough to date men exclusively and stay in the closet my whole life.
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Obviously, no one sits down and makes a rational decision about who to fall in love with, but I get frustrated with the veiled condescension of straight people who believe that queers "can't help it," and thus should be treated with tolerance and pity. To say "I was born this way" is to apologize for the person I am and for whom I love. It's like saying I would be different if I could.
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SBD Gonzalez said:
The best bit is righties thinking politics is only about barracking for a team.

Earth-shattering revelation coming for you here mate: most left-wingers accept that we live in a market economy.

Most left-wingers are not trying to impose a Soviet-style command economy on us.
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Most? The vocal ones here certainly seem in favour of some sort of Islamic centralised government structure.
 
Ah well, at least I know that I'm getting none of it and the whole palaver can die the death it should have from the start.
 
SBD Gonzalez said:
So, good to know, your opinion is based on nothing?

Like I said, I don't care either way, and Fitzsimons particularly annoys me, but he would be a lot closer to RA than you or me, and even though he says he has no idea what the actual figure was, it's perfectly feasible that he would have been given some sense of their legal team's high level of confidence in the strength of their case.

Folau can ask as much as he wants, but at the end of the day, in a confidential case, if his opponents hold all the cards, and his legal team realises how poor their chances are, he's going to accept whatever scraps they throw his way.
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How did you figure that, because Fitzy said so?
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
Nope. If the contract curtailed his religious beliefs, would it even be legal?
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This is dependent of several views of the law, but with regard to established expression of verbal dogma, I couldn't see how such a contract could be binding under that circumstance, and RA was eventually forced to make that conclusion also.

It was an incredibly poor piece of managerial action.

As you may know from your former employment, even the Vic Corrections Act doesn't meddle with religion and established religious expression.
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
Give it up, he's not smart enough, I've read enough of his rubbish to know that.
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Could be just a kid for all I know.

People do break out of their mental cages and evolve as thinkers, but unfortunately it's not a consistent outcome.
 
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