Why hasnt there been more pressure on st kilda over the years?

[Plugger35]

Trading Lockett was a mistake.

We only traded him because he wanted to leave.

Yet Richmond have dominated St Kilda since 2012

You must have a short memory as well, we flogged you by 67 points back in 2017.

 

[Captain_Bender]

We only traded him because he wanted to leave.



You must have a short memory as well, we flogged you by 67 points back in 2017.

And yet Richmond proved what a fluke that game was by flogging St Kilda everytime since then including 2017

 

[GroggSquad]

Been around longer than North.
Less success than North.
More debt than North.
Similar membership to North.
Among the worst administered clubs in the league.

Yet St Kilda is never mentioned in relocation discussions and North continually have to fight off the vultures. It doesn't make any sense to me.

St Kilda get a good ride from the media and they deserve more criticism.

 

[My Tilly]

We are infatuated because he has delivered us 2 flags . How’s Dangerflop working out for you ?
Go CATTERS


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Honestly, I never expected a premiership when he signed with us anyway as I truly expected us to decline. We have declined in some way as we are not a legitimate premiership contender.
Even when we were sitting pretty this year, I said on here halfway through the year that we would slip away and falter in finals.

So there you go, I am a realist but your Dusty Martin hype is profound. I get it, great player and all but come on man, you could have picked 3 or so players on grand final day who stood out (Pickett, Houli, Riewoldt, Vlastuin) so it was not as if the guy single-handedly won you the game which is what he is being made out to have done.

 

[Socrates2]

Why don't all their rich fans like Gudinski,Bana and Meldrum, donate money or organise a fundraiser.
Compared by Eric Bana and Shane Warne with performances by Tex Perkins, Marina Prior , Ross Wilson and TISM.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Been around longer than North.
Less success than North.
More debt than North.
Similar membership to North.
Among the worst administered clubs in the league.

Yet St Kilda is never mentioned in relocation discussions and North continually have to fight off the vultures. It doesn't make any sense to me.

St Kilda get a good ride from the media and they deserve more criticism.

I think its norths location that will always make them a target there wedged into a small area surrounded buy bulldogs Essendon and Melbourne where st kilda have the whole Bay Area right down to the peninsula that’s been a saving grace with us as the afl need a club based in that large growth area

 

[The Warlord]

St.kilda retired Riewoldt 2 years too early and suffered the consequences. I'm not sure what spud they wanted to develop instead of playing Riewoldt, might have been Lee.

The bloke they drafted at 1

 

[The Warlord]

Been around longer than North.
Less success than North.
More debt than North.
Similar membership to North.
Among the worst administered clubs in the league.

Yet St Kilda is never mentioned in relocation discussions and North continually have to fight off the vultures. It doesn't make any sense to me.

St Kilda get a good ride from the media and they deserve more criticism.

In some ways it is good, it has made us tough and alert to what the AFL is doing though.

Having survived 2007, we'll never be got now.

 

[Atomboy]

Been around longer than North.
Less success than North.
More debt than North.
Similar membership to North.
Among the worst administered clubs in the league.

Yet St Kilda is never mentioned in relocation discussions and North continually have to fight off the vultures. It doesn't make any sense to me.

St Kilda get a good ride from the media and they deserve more criticism.

Not sure a club that had to live through the whole Kim Duthie “scandal” can be accused of getting a free ride from the media.

Mosts journos were happy to smash the club from pillar to post, yet when the young lass came out on national TV and said she made most of it up there was not a word of contrition from any of those same journos.

By all accounts it cost the club a major sponsor and damaged the club’s image for close to a decade.

Poor club administration definitely contributed to that though, no chance that would have happened with one of the bigger clubs.

 

[telsor]

In some ways it is good, it has made us tough and alert to what the AFL is doing though.

Having survived 2007, we'll never be got now.

and this is why you'll eventually go...The erroneous self belief that you're somehow past it.

I agree that St Kilda is in a worse state, but North is barely keeping their head above water too, and all it would take would be a change of AFL policy regarding 'equalisation' and both clubs would be stuffed.

Until a club can stand up without 'disequal' AFL support, they're all at the mercy of the whims of AFL house.

 

[telsor]

Mosts journos were happy to smash the club from pillar to post, yet when the young lass came out on national TV and said she made most of it up there was not a word of contrition from any of those same journos.

That's nothing to do with St Kilda, and everything to do with modern clickbait 'journalism'.

 

[The Warlord]

and this is why you'll eventually go...The erroneous self belief that you're somehow past it.

The only way we'll go is if we run up massive debt again.

This "AFL support" line is crap, all clubs get huge funding from the AFL.

 

[telsor]

The only way we'll go is if we run up massive debt again.

This "AFL support" line is crap, all clubs get huge funding from the AFL.

All clubs get an equal share of media revenue (as per the agreement that took place in the 70s when they signed over media rights to the league).

Clubs also get varying amounts as a result of various revenue that gets funneled through the AFL in whole or part (licensing for merch, food and beverage at Docklands, AFL memberships, etc).

Both of those are pretty much guaranteed...They're part of the club's deals with the AFL.



and then there is 'disequal' funding (AKA equalisation, competitive balance, future funding, or whatever). That can be taken away/adjusted whenever and however the AFL wants. If a club can't live without this, then they're at risk to an AFL policy change.

Your club can't. Feel free to check your annual report from last year...note 3...Or do you think you could do without that 5.1M?

 

[The Warlord]

All clubs get an equal share of media revenue (as per the agreement that took place in the 70s when they signed over media rights to the league).

Clubs also get varying amounts as a result of various revenue that gets funneled through the AFL in whole or part (licensing for merch, food and beverage at Docklands, AFL memberships, etc).

Both of those are pretty much guaranteed...They're part of the club's deals with the AFL.



and then there is 'disequal' funding (AKA equalisation, competitive balance, future funding, or whatever). That can be taken away/adjusted whenever and however the AFL wants. If a club can't live without this, then they're at risk to an AFL policy change.

Your club can't. Feel free to check your annual report from last year...note 3...Or do you think you could do without that 5.1M?

Yes, and this idea that the AFL can suddenly remove it at will is delusional fantasy land thinking. It is just not how it works and never will.

The leverage the AFL has is guaranteeing club debts. Which is why we worked so hard to pay it off straight after the GC thing.

 

[telsor]

Yes, and this idea that the AFL can suddenly remove it at will is delusional fantasy land thinking. It is just not how it works and never will.

The leverage the AFL has is guaranteeing club debts. Which is why we worked so hard to pay it off straight after the GC thing.

Of course they couldn't do it overnight...but do you seriously doubt they could do it over a few years?

Losing $5M less per year for a club that's at the very low end of spending already would have you deep in debt again pretty quickly....and if the AFL were to indicate that their current policy was to remain in place (and choose not to guarantee your debts), how easy do you think it would be to borrow that money?

 

[StCicatriz]

You obviously haven't been on the saints board. People are in full riot mode. Ready to lynch the entire administration.

Finnis is well and truly in the gun. He could be shown up to be a complete and utter pretender like pelchen, ameet, trout and richo were.

 

[StCicatriz]

It isn't fair to get on St Kilda's back over performance on field and off, they are not alone when it comes to the financials not matching it with the big clubs of the league or in regards to wins/losses.

The market is a nightmare for competition in Victoria. I think it's difficult marketing a second club in WA after the Eagles had established themselves, but Freo still brings in $20,000,000 a year in membership revenue a year, which includes reserved seating and merchandise. Compare that with St Kilda which is closer to $11,000,000. Nine million dollars is a lot of money when it comes to investing in "the brand". West Coast just dropped sixty million in cash on their new training base.

The reality is that if there were four clubs in Victoria, let's call them the Wombats, Bats, Koalas and the Dingoes, they could all be drawing the membership of the financial powerhouses of the AFL. The competition would be very different though, it would have all the history brushed aside and every single club at AFL level would be a new franchise - and I think that will cost more than people really want to pay.

I wonder if the total number of memberships in Victoria has a theoretical cap (outside inflation) and whichever clubs are doing well at the time tend to attract a rolling mass of football supporters who aren't particularly tied to one club, but I expect it's more of an artifact of there being two levels of supporter where some are rusted on regardless of performance and others aren't as motivated unless the team is playing well.

If the AFL was contrived then we'd have a situation where struggling clubs start winning flags for that membership boost to save the AFL cash.

The funny thing is if you look at population and market share. St Kilda is doing better than Freo. Which tells a significant story.

Despite the pressure of being in a saturated market with a tonne of competition they're doing very very well in terms of membership and sponsorship and attendance.

Which is why the AFL will not see them fold. Especially with the FFA focussing on football in the bayside region.

 

[Freomaniac]

You don’t rate brad hill as an elite wingman ??

I do rate Brad Hill as an Elite wingman. Saints are paying him $900,000 a year. I dont think Brad Hill his worth no more than $650-700,000 a year.

As I said $650,000 a year is exactly $12,500 a week or $25,000 a fortnight. thats good money.

I rated Brad Hill at the hawks. I was sceptical at the time when we got him as I feared he would be Another Des Headland when he joined freo. Des Headland was Brilliant at Brisbane. Mainly because he wasnt heavily tagged and he was Protected. Then you realize the mids Brisbane had from 1999-2004: Voss, Lappin, Akermanis, Simon Black, Shaun Hart, Brad scott, Chris Scott. All these blokes won multiple flags at Brisbane.

When Headland went to freo from 2002-10, the Dockers mids were: Peter Bell, Jarrad Schofield, Josh Carr, Matt carr, Paul Hasleby, Shaun McManus and Byron Schammer. Bell, Josh Carr and Jarrad Schofield won premierships. not at Freo though, at their Previous clubs.

Yes, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than now. You need to find the next Dustin Martin somewhere and that's the draft imo.

Has Brad Hill reached his Ceiling? Probably. He averages 20-25 disposals a game. If he is averaging 25 disposals a game, there were games he was solid and got 20 disposals. He got us over the line ve Collingwood and Sydney this year getting 30 disposals and 2 goals in both those games.

Dal wasnt elite, was he?

what they need is a Hayes type to lead by example. I still have no idea who their captain is. know his name but that's about it.

They probably need a hayes type mid thats a leader.

I think the saints also need a Josh Carr or Damien Hardwick type enforcer that gets 20 disposals a game and protects the younger mids too.

St.kilda retired Riewoldt 2 years too early and suffered the consequences. I'm not sure what spud they wanted to develop instead of playing Riewoldt, might have been Lee.

I am glad you brought that up......

Nick Riewoldt retired at 34 years old. You could debate he could of gone another year.

Key position players take time to Develop some times you need to wait 3-5 years until that player is fully developed. I can answer your question on who they wanted to develop at the time. It Was paddy McCartin, it made sense at the time.

Saints finished Bottom in 2014 and used pick 1 on McCartin. from 2015-17, Paddy McCartin played Full forward, Riewoldt played CHF. Nick Riewoldt retired in 2017.

So the plan was for Paddy McCartin to be the spear head in 2018. Sadly, that didnt work out with his injuries and concussions.

 

[Freomaniac]

You obviously haven't been on the saints board. People are in full riot mode. Ready to lynch the entire administration.

Finnis is well and truly in the gun. He could be shown up to be a complete and utter pretender like pelchen, ameet, trout and richo were.

I still dont trust the saints board.....

Some of those saints fans still hate Ross Lyon even though ross lyons AFL career is as dead as Ivan Milat.

The funny thing is if you look at population and market share. St Kilda is doing better than Freo. Which tells a significant story.

Despite the pressure of being in a saturated market with a tonne of competition they're doing very very well in terms of membership and sponsorship and attendance.

Which is why the AFL will not see them fold. Especially with the FFA focussing on football in the bayside region.

There are 10 Victorian teams. There is 6.5 million people in Victoria. thats 650,000 people per side on average. Sure more teams would follow the carltons and collingwoods as they are more successful. Sure Saints and North have less supporters for obvious reasons.

Theres 2.5 million people in WA. West coast has the bigger supporter base than Freo for obvious reasons with the success and Sponsors etc. Saying that, Freo does have their supporters. You could realistically add a 3rd or even a 4th team in WA with WAs current population.


Im suprised the FFA is Focusing on the Bayside area even though the 3rd Victorian A-league club is West Melbourne and they play home games in Geelong.

 

[charcoalchicken]

I don't mind the saints but they are struggling, they have fans but really need to get back up the ladder, they are borderline irrelevant, north I think slightly worse off in terms if relevance, think they should properly market themselves around st. kilda/along the coast, get more involved with community and things like that, it's an iconic spot in melbourne so why not embrace it?

 

[The wily weagle]

1 flag, by 1 point, in almost 150 years of existence

I said it earlier and I will say it again; with such an atrocious premiership return, I will give them credit simply for surviving

 

[Gavin Excell]

This discussion is all well and good but what it fails to take into account is the achievements of Richmond

 

[StCicatriz]

1 flag, by 1 point, in almost 150 years of existence

I said it earlier and I will say it again; with such an atrocious premiership return, I will give them credit simply for surviving

It's a pretty remarkable achievement when you think about it. For all their struggles and bleak periods they have more than 45k members

 

[RonnieRaven]

I respect saints supporters like freo supporters there’s no glory hunters or bandwagon brigade just blind passion a lot of successful vic clubs have a couple of lean years and there crickets in the stands hawks came off 5 flags and were looking to merge after a couple bad years.
I’ve got mates that are hawks supporters that aren’t interested in footy at the moment

 

[RonnieRaven]

Y

The funny thing is if you look at population and market share. St Kilda is doing better than Freo. Which tells a significant story.

Despite the pressure of being in a saturated market with a tonne of competition they're doing very very well in terms of membership and sponsorship and attendance.

Which is why the AFL will not see them fold. Especially with the FFA focussing on football in the bayside region.

you live in vic?
People don’t change club support eagles and crows had the whole state.
Crows a little less because a lot of port sanfl supporters didn’t jump ship and crows hadn’t won a flag before ports inception
Adding a second team in WA does not give you %50 of market share there’s no family influence.
You start with a %5 share and as figures show now original supporters are having and influencing a new generation for growth.
Eagles won two flags with basically a state team before the anchors entered the room puts the start marker a very long way back