The Old Dark Navy's
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Someone very much more observant than me pointed out that something has been removed from the wall in the Carlton Boardroom.
Can you elaborate for the slow of mind?
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Someone very much more observant than me pointed out that something has been removed from the wall in the Carlton Boardroom.
Is there much difference between not having a list manager and not taking any notice of the list manager you do have?The price makes a huge difference.
Clarkson took Dew against the LM's wishes. Low cost (huge reward).
It is obviously far more problematic when they come on/for a big cost.
Although, we didn't even have a list manager when we took McLean and Thomas, so there's also that.
As I understand the portrait of the late Richard Pratt has been removed.
As I said it was pointed out to me by someone far more observant than I.
As I understand the portrait of the late Richard Pratt has been removed.
As I said it was pointed out to me by someone far more observant than I.
Which is what most of this debate is about. Did Liddle go behind SOS's back, or did the List Management team discuss an approach to Ellis and agree (unanimously or not) that Liddle making contact and handling the tour would be prudent given he was familiar with Ellis? Because Liddle has put it on the record that it's the latter. And if he is lying, blatantly, in a public member forum with every answer well documented...well, he wouldn't, would he. Given his detractors are painting him as a political snake, it's hard to believe he'd outright lie in a public forum when doing so would undoubtedly find him being exposed in short order.
I'm not saying it is wrong as an idea overall. I'm saying to implement it to rein in power over someone who was doing a great job, after previously being given his space to do as he wanted, is a very dicey exercise and you have to be a people person.
Let's face it, there was no obvious issues in what SOS was doing that necessitated the change. For some reason, people outside of SOS's team wanted in on the decision making process so made changed to ensure this happened. How can that not seem like a slap in the face?
Others didn't form the game plan for Teague to pass on. They merely offer their input and the head coach decides whether to accept it or reject it. It's certainly not the case that the assistant coaches could want one thing and Teague is outvoted so has to implement it.Member Online Forum 9th Dec 2019
Someone very much more observant than me pointed out that something has been removed from the wall in the Carlton Boardroom. ;) :p Can you elaborate for the slow of mind?www.bigfooty.com
I know nothing of the truth of the Ellis/Betts/any other controversies. IMO they are completely irrelevant to SOS's departure.
SOS had to go. The conflict of interest was manifest. If Carlton are to compete in an increasingly professional sport then basic conflict of interest management must be inherent in the organisation.
It is patently obvious that as father of 2 players and father of a potential 3rd player no meaningful list management decision could be made by SOS that could not be interpreted as being done to favour his boys or, alternatively, done to avoid being seen to favour his boys.
Just put yourself in SOS's position. Imagine if he thought SOJ was just not worth a place on the list. Imagine how difficult telling SOJ that it was his decision that SOJ should piss off.
If Kemp comes good he is just the sort of player that might replace SOJ in the team. Was that why SOS was happy to swap pick 11, in the hope he would not be selected? Etc, etc.
The decision to cease with SOS was the only decision that could realistically have been made.
You want to parse Liddle's involvement with the recruitment of Ellis or Betts as "the real reason" SOS was "sacked". If it was then Liddle got lucky because terminating SOS as List Manager was the only thing that could have been done.
this'll be good.......
I have to say, I really enjoy the cut and thrust of the discussion rather than out and out dismissal and personal comments.
I've tempered my original thoughts in some areas as a result, and hardened them in others.
The non-answering of simple questions shows that Liddle is hiding behind the PR facade they have built. Make no mistake Carlton is but a stepping stone for Liddle
That's a nice story but has any of it been substantiated? Any of it?SOS was allowed to do his thing because he had a proven track record and we were in a mess.
We allowed him autonomy and praised his work. He earned our patience, as did Bolton and Trigg at the time.
When a new CEO and Football Manager came in, they had their own ideas on a consultative approach. They tried to implement it in an area that wasn't failing.
It would have felt like a slap in the face to any of us. You're doing a great job but we're going to take away your licence to do your job the way you have been successfully doing it.
I understand the consultative approach, but there seemed to be no testing of the waters. Agresta in, change of titles. SOS seemingly the boss but his title was superfluous.
It feels like a failure in dealing with people. You try to implement your best practice and you end up saying to the worker, 'we don't trust you anymore'.
I know nothing of the truth of the Ellis/Betts/any other controversies. IMO they are completely irrelevant to SOS's departure.
SOS had to go. The conflict of interest was manifest. If Carlton are to compete in an increasingly professional sport then basic conflict of interest management must be inherent in the organisation.
It is patently obvious that as father of 2 players and father of a potential 3rd player no meaningful list management decision could be made by SOS that could not be interpreted as being done to favour his boys or, alternatively, done to avoid being seen to favour his boys.
Just put yourself in SOS's position. Imagine if he thought SOJ was just not worth a place on the list. Imagine how difficult telling SOJ that it was his decision that SOJ should piss off.
If Kemp comes good he is just the sort of player that might replace SOJ in the team. Was that why SOS was happy to swap pick 11, in the hope he would not be selected? Etc, etc.
The decision to cease with SOS was the only decision that could realistically have been made.
You want to parse Liddle's involvement with the recruitment of Ellis or Betts as "the real reason" SOS was "sacked". If it was then Liddle got lucky because terminating SOS as List Manager was the only thing that could have been done.
That's a nice story but has any of it been substantiated? Any of it?
FWIW, the only reality I've read is in the forum release from the club. People who were on the committee were asked questions and gave their version of events. Others who were on the committee had the opportunity to dispute any of the facts presented and didn't. Unless someone else on the committee who was present can dispute any of the facts presented, the opposing view is unsubstantiated fiction.
As for assertions that SOS doesn't have an unmanageable conflict of interest, surely it extends to how it impacts others in the organisation. Are others feeling conflict or pressure in their decision making re the Silvagni boys due to the fact they work alongside SOS? Only those within the organisation would know the reality.
Of course one can only react to information presented - if any new information is provided to shed light on the situation I reserve my right to change my mind. Maybe something like the new rumour - with more legs and less 'trust me' would tick that box...
Being open to changing your mind is a good thing. Should be more of it.
I like the sub-committee idea as a whole. Just don't like the idea of fixing something that wasn't broken and losing intellectual property needlessly. These are not easy positions to replace.
Teague is the head coach and knows Eddie well. Teague also knows we are in desperate need of a small forward. Eddie fits the bill almost perfectly and only his age is the potential issue. But still he will most likely be good for at least 1 year which gives us time to replace him if he lost significant form.I've never challenged your final point. I think the coach has a bit more say in match committee, and I would propose that the fact we didn't get Ellis tells you SOS had a pretty firm voice and was only overruled by a significant majority (e.g. Betts).
I still find it funny people are latching onto the Liddle-Ellis connection now as a conflict while blindfolding themselves to the Teague-Eddie decision which was an identical relationship given Teague used to coach Eddie.
Teague is the head coach and knows Eddie well. Teague also knows we are in desperate need of a small forward. Eddie fits the bill almost perfectly and only his age is the potential issue. But still he will most likely be good for at least 1 year which gives us time to replace him if he lost significant form.
What is the driver for liddle in chasing Ellis? We are not in desperate need for a player of his ability and the position he plays in even though he has grand final experience. It’s a position we can easily fill internally and those candidates will be on par to what Ellis can offer.