Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

[AuntyBlindEye]

Hope WA gets a third and even a forth team.

 

[Taylor]

If I'm interpreting this correctly, you're suggesting a 3rd WA club as every WC and Freo fan's 2nd club?

If so then this 3rd club would be like a "stop gap" for lack of live footy, another GC which no one cares about. Sure purely for the purist footy fan who can't get enough footy but it's a stretch to have the public back this new club as their "2nd" after Freo or WC to make it viable.

More an opportunity to see the team they are playing. WC v Geelong Friday night, Joondalup Jingle bells v Hawthorn Saturday

That half the team would be made up of WC and FFC players would be a perk. Since a second WA team was created to dilute returning talent from all going to WC a third would be for the same reason, there isn't exactly any new footy money here, so I expect the concessions to be "up to six players from each of WC and Freo, one player from all other clubs"

 

[Kwality]

Hope WA gets a third and even a forth team.

If you are that keen on 2nd tier footy go to the VFL, even the WAFL, but pleaee dont fill the AFL with 2nd tier footballers - said as a Subi fan, as successful a 2nd tier club as there is going around.
Reckon you know the difference between the AFL & the 2nd tier, even though some cant see it.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

If you are that keen on 2nd tier footy go to the VFL, even the WAFL, but pleaee dont fill the AFL with 2nd tier footballers - said as a Subi fan, as successful a 2nd tier club as there is going around.
Reckon you know the difference between the AFL & the 2nd tier, even though some cant see it.

If the price for a more even spread of teams is a few others get dropped to the VFL then so be it.

Realistically I'd rather see a tassie or NT team first, but WA is a good footy state and I enjoy the teams.

What's the general consensus about another WA team over there? Most people behind it?

 

[Taylor]

What's the general consensus about another WA team over there? Most people behind it?

If people know what football is then they already have a tribe. It's very social here, so if you want to get into football you're brought to it by your friends and they will nudge you towards the team they follow.

 

[FootyJunkie]

If it's going to be a another Perth side, it's going to end up like some unloved plastic franchise with no soul.... "Perth City" would get the namesake of the city into the league at least...

A Mandurah side, being some 70km away gives it that Geelong-esque appeal, at least it's something different for locals in the south west to warm up to given they have better access to AFL, and would only have to make the trip up to Burswood for derbies (country vs city angle) and finals...

 

[Kwality]

If the price for a more even spread of teams is a few others get dropped to the VFL then so be it.

Realistically I'd rather see a tassie or NT team first, but WA is a good footy state and I enjoy the teams.

What's the general consensus about another WA team over there? Most people behind it?

Melbourne based so its friends & relo's & dated personal experience. Most footy fans are committed, no different to Vic or SA. Clearly there is room for more footy in terms of bums on seats at the Eagles.
Changing clubs in the same town is not easily done for the committed. It'd be a long haul to get much momentum for a 3rd club.
I'm very much pro Tas, a must IMHO - NT not so sure. How bout the AFL put the work in up there. NT footballers have been coming south since the mid 50s that I know of, its a rich history, its certainly got a place, only when.
Meanwhile too many teams in one town stop us getting a balanced comp nationally.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Melbourne based so its friends & relo's & dated personal experience. Most footy fans are committed, no different to Vic or SA. Clearly there is room for more footy in terms of bums on seats at the Eagles.
Changing clubs in the same town is not easily done for the committed. It'd be a long haul to get much momentum for a 3rd club.
I'm very much pro Tas, a must IMHO - NT not so sure. How bout the AFL put the work in up there. NT footballers have been coming south since the mid 50s that I know of, its a rich history, its certainly got a place, only when.
Meanwhile too many teams in one town stop us getting a balanced comp nationally.

Well said.

Having lived in NT there is absolutely a massive appetitite for footy buy I do think it would struggle up there initially. A bit more work put into the north from the AFL would also result in a bit more of a return in talent you would imagine. And there is a wealth of talent up there that just doesn't have the systems in place to really nurture it to a full extent.

Having had my team since birth I haven't really got a great understanding of what the WA fans went through when the teams were bought into the AFL. I always wonder what the mix of WAFL supporters that came over and people that had a VFL team that swapped are.

I feel like out of all the states that currently have teams, WA is the best equipped to introduce a new team and not have it be a disaster. A 3rd WA team would have made more sense to me than GC did.

Having less Melbourne teams would benefit all the interstate clubs a little, and not that I want to get into the ol' home ground advantage discussion, but it would also make the VIC stadiums feel a bit more personal or special for the remaining VIC teams.

Do you reckon a 3rd WA team would have to be a specific locality like Mandurah or something, or would the Western Australian "Xs" work better in terms of gathering supporters.

 

[Rob]

What's the general consensus about another WA team over there? Most people behind it?

No one's really had the conversation to know what anyone thinks.

Outside of bigfooty I've never heard it discussed.

 

[Kwality]

Do you reckon a 3rd WA team would have to be a specific locality like Mandurah or something, or would the Western Australian "Xs" work better in terms of gathering supporters.

Cant see locality would ensure any following & no name ensures success IMHO. Can tell you the Eagles name was a source of amusement for the fans in the mid 80s - all clubs had a nominal geographical base even Swan Districts.

I always wonder what the mix of WAFL supporters that came over and people that had a VFL team that swapped are.

I was a Subi fan from real young, we went every week & in the 60s Subi was not very successful, fired coaches, all that carry on.
By the late 70s I was on the corporate ladder, ex WA to SA joined Port (lived & worked locally, the boys won 2 flags), then to Melbourne joined Carlton (my Sales Manager was a Collingwood player), then up to Brisbane, eventually back to Perth 1985.
Back to every week to the footy to watch Subi with my Dad, watched the 1986 flag together unsure what 1987 had for us.
Come 1987 we still followed our club knowing our best players were not playing for us, they were in the national comp also at Subi Oval. Mid year I was transferred to Melbourne & you are right, do I stick with the Blues or follow the Eagles. Contrarian in me maybe, but the Eagles were being presented as an Origin side, Sheeds tieing up the wind sock etc, my guys were playing for the Eagles, didnt renew Blues membership 1988. More a reflex action than a considered decision I like to think.
Remember well playing Collingwood in 1988 at Vic Park (couple of dicks but a great day at the footy even though we lost, losing probably helped keep the locals humour).

My dad didnt ever warm to the Eagles though had a soft spot for the Cats (his cousin was in the 63 flag & went on to coach them).
The Eagles grew on me, from Origin we always knew our best was as good as anyone, success in 90 -94 made the transition to the Eagles in the national comp from Carlton in the VFL, follow Subi to this day but not actively. All my mates in Perth went the same way.

Have happily been involved in sponsorship of the Dogs in the AFL era, it was a business decision.

That was my experience, yep I'm old.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Cant see locality would ensure any following & no name ensures success IMHO. Can tell you the Eagles name was a source of amusement for the fans in the mid 80s - all clubs had a nominal geographical base even Swan Districts.



I was a Subi fan from real young, we went every week & in the 60s Subi was not very successful, fired coaches, all that carry on.
By the late 70s I was on the corporate ladder, ex WA to SA joined Port (lived & worked locally, the boys won 2 flags), then to Melbourne joined Carlton (my Sales Manager was a Collingwood player), then up to Brisbane, eventually back to Perth 1985.
Back to every week to the footy to watch Subi with my Dad, watched the 1986 flag together unsure what 1987 had for us.
Come 1987 we still followed our club knowing our best players were not playing for us, they were in the national comp also at Subi Oval. Mid year I was transferred to Melbourne & you are right, do I stick with the Blues or follow the Eagles. Contrarian in me maybe, but the Eagles were being presented as an Origin side, Sheeds tieing up the wind sock etc, my guys were playing for the Eagles, didnt renew Blues membership 1988. More a reflex action than a considered decision I like to think.
Remember well playing Collingwood in 1988 at Vic Park (couple of dicks but a great day at the footy even though we lost, losing probably helped keep the locals humour).

My dad didnt ever warm to the Eagles though had a soft spot for the Cats (his cousin was in the 63 flag & went on to coach them).
The Eagles grew on me, from Origin we always knew our best was as good as anyone, success in 90 -94 made the transition to the Eagles in the national comp from Carlton in the VFL, follow Subi to this day but not actively. All my mates in Perth went the same way.

Have happily been involved in sponsorship of the Dogs in the AFL era, it was a business decision.

That was my experience, yep I'm old.

That's a really interesting read. Had never really considered the journey some fans might have gone on having their state introduce teams into the comp. Little bit of an eye opener.

 

[Carringbush2010]

More an opportunity to see the team they are playing. WC v Geelong Friday night, Joondalup Jingle bells v Hawthorn Saturday

That half the team would be made up of WC and FFC players would be a perk. Since a second WA team was created to dilute returning talent from all going to WC a third would be for the same reason, there isn't exactly any new footy money here, so I expect the concessions to be "up to six players from each of WC and Freo, one player from all other clubs"

My point is that unless you can guarantee public support for the Joondy jingle bells it's moot anyway. Sure there's enough population here to sustain one but only if a large portion of the 2 million here commit like they have with Freo and WC.

I've asked many if they'd look at supporting a 3rd team because of this thread, haven't found one that would dump WC or Freo in favour of and not many seem too keen on adopting a "2nd team".

Purely for the point of extra games at Optus, TV and ensuring more native WA talent in the AFL is not enough, that 3rd team may as well be a vic team such the public support it would receive.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If the price for a more even spread of teams is a few others get dropped to the VFL then so be it.

Realistically I'd rather see a tassie or NT team first, but WA is a good footy state and I enjoy the teams.

What's the general consensus about another WA team over there? Most people behind it?

Everyone here (except us few expats from other states) is either WC or Freo. Another team, well yes the general consensus here is less Vic teams and more teams from everywhere else.

The problem is though no one here is willing to give up support of the two current teams and at best would back another team as a 2nd interest. So the impression I get from the public is this

• Unlikely to drop support for the club they currently follow
• Would likely oppose the team when they play their own team (WC or Freo)
• Would likely support the team as a 2nd interest IF they were playing a club not from WA.

So yeah more WA clubs so long as someone else supports them.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

Everyone here (except us few expats from other states) is either WC or Freo. Another team, well yes the general consensus here is less Vic teams and more teams from everywhere else.

The problem is though no one here is willing to give up support of the two current teams and at best would back another team as a 2nd interest. So the impression I get from the public is this

• Unlikely to drop support for the club they currently follow
• Would likely oppose the team when they play their own team (WC or Freo)
• Would likely support the team as a 2nd interest IF they were playing a club not from WA.

So yeah more WA clubs so long as someone else supports them.

I think I had this stupid idea in my head that Freo supporters were a more localised bunch and a portion of WC fans were people that didn't want to support Freo, but didn't have their own town specific WA team to follow and as such, if the right town was picked as a new WA team they would gather the fence sitters and the no other option fans pretty easily. Or at least they would have an easier time of it than GC or GWS.

It seems like people are a bit more rusted on than I thought. Not saying WA fans aren't loyal or anything either. Just thought some of them might be waiting for a team that better represents their area or something.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think I had this stupid idea in my head that Freo supporters were a more localised bunch and a portion of WC fans were people that didn't want to support Freo, but didn't have their own town specific WA team to follow and as such, if the right town was picked as a new WA team they would gather the fence sitters and the no other option fans pretty easily. Or at least they would have an easier time of it than GC or GWS.

It seems like people are a bit more rusted on than I thought. Not saying WA fans aren't loyal or anything either. Just thought some of them might be waiting for a team that better represents their area or something.

Nah they're rusted on solid! As I understand it (please correct me Freo fans if need be) there were previous bulldog and freast fans that jumped on Freo at their inception. There may have been a small amount that jumped from wc to freo as well - however that is speculation.

For WC fans it was a case of WC or your WAFL team or both, there may have been some die hards who wanted to snub this VFL mutant. My impression in any case is that at least some viewed wc as a representative of WA (and some still) instead of a stand alone club in a national league.

There's a north and south of the river thing which isn't really much of a thing anyway, that's probably why there's been suggestions around Joondy (near where I live - 30 clicks NOR) and Mandurah roughly 70 clicks from the cbd (SOR) but like Melbourne and say Paky it's not separated it's burbs all the way. But neither are really Geelong like in it's "separation" in an "identity" sense. To be honest there's not really an area that is a "not Perth" representative unless you talk about Bunbury, Busselton or Gero.

 

[AuntyBlindEye]

To be honest there's not really an area that is a "not Perth" representative unless you talk about Bunbury, Busselton or Gero.

Good point. I always felt that Broome was the logical choice for the next WA team, but having looked at it a bit more closely a while back I can see just how wrong I was.

I know most people don't want this, and I'm just riffing, but how do you think the idea of relocating a vic team to WA would go over?

I'd be sad to see the saints or roos for example, cease to exist but I could get behind them moving I suppose.

I feel like mergers or relocations are harder to get the public behind than an entirely new team though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Good point. I always felt that Broome was the logical choice for the next WA team, but having looked at it a bit more closely a while back I can see just how wrong I was.

I know most people don't want this, and I'm just riffing, but how do you think the idea of relocating a vic team to WA would go over?

I'd be sad to see the saints or roos for example, cease to exist but I could get behind them moving I suppose.

I feel like mergers or relocations are harder to get the public behind than an entirely new team though.

This is an easy answer - NO -

The least amount of member numbers for any Vic club is roughly 40k right? You could argue that altogether being conservative there's at least 100k paying members and supporters of any of those clubs right?

If you're a saints or north fan and HQ tries to relocate your club how are you going to react? (We already know the answer from North - the supposed "nothing" club).

HQ had a regret of sorts with the merger takeover of Fitzroy, RoyLion has the numbers but the support exodus was not really what HQ would call favourable and fair enough. If HQ took away my club I'd be baying for blood too. It's a lose lose

• The locals won't adopt a relocated team
• The current fans of those clubs would very likely be lost from the game.

I get the need to reduce the clubs in Vic to make it a national comp, problem is there is no practical avenue to do so not without a bulk loss of fans anyway. We can never have a truly national comp unless the footy heartlands are evened up population wise, that's the reason there is a saturation of clubs in Vic - the market dictates it as such.

 

[The_Reaper]

I think I had this stupid idea in my head that Freo supporters were a more localised bunch and a portion of WC fans were people that didn't want to support Freo, but didn't have their own town specific WA team to follow and as such, if the right town was picked as a new WA team they would gather the fence sitters and the no other option fans pretty easily. Or at least they would have an easier time of it than GC or GWS.

It seems like people are a bit more rusted on than I thought. Not saying WA fans aren't loyal or anything either. Just thought some of them might be waiting for a team that better represents their area or something.

Thing is that West Coast is the Perth team. That is the town specific team.

Fremantle has a historical identity separate to Perth and a logical geographical base.

Nowhere outside of Perth has the population.

 

[eastfreo75]

Thing is that West Coast is the Perth team. That is the town specific team.

Fremantle has a historical identity separate to Perth and a logical geographical base.

Nowhere outside of Perth has the population.

So Essendon isn’t a Melbourne team?

 

[The_Reaper]

So Essendon isn’t a Melbourne team?

Essendon was part of a suburban Melbourne competition between different regions of Melbourne for well over a century. None of the 11 Melbourne clubs in the VFL were "the" club that represented Melbourne.
During this time it developed a fanbase which has remained after the transition to a national competition.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Good point. I always felt that Broome was the logical choice for the next WA team, but having looked at it a bit more closely a while back I can see just how wrong I was.

I know most people don't want this, and I'm just riffing, but how do you think the idea of relocating a vic team to WA would go over?

I'd be sad to see the saints or roos for example, cease to exist but I could get behind them moving I suppose.

I feel like mergers or relocations are harder to get the public behind than an entirely new team though.

North is probably the only team that could do “ok” in Perth. There’s a surprisingly large north Melbourne supporter base in Perth that I’ve noticed. But still wouldn’t be enough to survive if the vic support does off due to relocation

 

[eastfreo75]

Essendon was part of a suburban Melbourne competition between different regions of Melbourne for well over a century. None of the 11 Melbourne clubs in the VFL were "the" club that represented Melbourne.
During this time it developed a fanbase which has remained after the transition to a national competition.

There are two teams in Perth Metropolitan area.

There are Ten teams in the Melbourne Metropolitan area.

 

[jatz14]

There are two teams in Perth Metropolitan area.

There are Ten teams in the Melbourne Metropolitan area.

Far more people in Perth support the Eagles than there are supporters of any one team in Melbourne. Ignoring for a moment the number of teams in Melbourne, if you added a brand new team in Melbourne, where would its supporters come from? There is a reason all the teams in Melbourne that were added to the VFL over the years were pre existing teams joining the VFL, and not new teams. Big VAFA teams already had a substantial supporter base. However, the VAFA back in the day was much closer in size and popularity to the VFL than is true of the current WAFL and the AFL.

This is the issue in Perth, not the number of teams. When they added a second team, everybody and their dog knew it would be a Fremantle team, it was the only logical choice. So the issue is, if the logical choice has already been made, we are now picking through the best illogical choice.

 

[eastfreo75]

Far more people in Perth support the Eagles than there are supporters of any one team in Melbourne. Ignoring for a moment the number of teams in Melbourne, if you added a brand new team in Melbourne, where would its supporters come from? There is a reason all the teams in Melbourne that were added to the VFL over the years were pre existing teams joining the VFL, and not new teams. Big VAFA teams already had a substantial supporter base. However, the VAFA back in the day was much closer in size and popularity to the VFL than is true of the current WAFL and the AFL.

This is the issue in Perth, not the number of teams. When they added a second team, everybody and their dog knew it would be a Fremantle team, it was the only logical choice. So the issue is, if the logical choice has already been made, we are now picking through the best illogical choice.

I am responding to the illogical claim that the Eagles are THE Perth team, which they are not.

 

[Billy ray]

I reckon there is demand for a team where you can pay $25 and walk up and watch the AFL and sit with your friends. You know. Like in melbourne.