Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Arr0w]

Could well be the case and Newman has impressed me so far and Marchbank will come back.

SPS has been training as that exit player we've been wanting and has been doing it to good effect albeit in a 10-12 side format.

He could be that mid that settles into that role, similar to Vlastuin, but he is still a mid/HF in my eyes

 

[Eiffel 65]

Just had a look through a list of out of contract players on Footywire.

Wonder if Wayne Milera is gettable.

Doesn't look like there are many free agents or out of contract players that would appeal to us in 2020.

 

[skadoosh]

I just want injury free seasons for McKay, Charlie and McGovern. All the hype from last preseason had us predicting 35+ goals each from McKay and Charlie and 25+ from McGovern. These 3 have all the talent in the world, bit it means squat if they can't get on the field.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Just had a look through a list of out of contract players on Footywire.

Wonder if Wayne Milera is gettable.

Doesn't look like there are many free agents or out of contract players that would appeal to us in 2020.

Papley to replace Eddie and Milera to replace Simmo... highly likely Milera stays put in SA, these two would be the icing on the cake...

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I just want injury free seasons for McKay, Charlie and McGovern. All the hype from last preseason had us predicting 35+ goals each from McKay and Charlie and 25+ from McGovern. These 3 have all the talent in the world, bit it means squat if they can't get on the field.

McKay Charlie McGovern Setterfield Williamson Kennedy Kruezer Docherty Marchbank Macreadie Cuningham...

 

[iAsbestos]

Just had a look through a list of out of contract players on Footywire.

Wonder if Wayne Milera is gettable.

Doesn't look like there are many free agents or out of contract players that would appeal to us in 2020.

Gotta go after 2021 free agents if smear fails again

 

[Blue__Balls]

Papley to replace Eddie and Milera to replace Simmo... highly likely Milera stays put in SA, these two would be the icing on the cake...

Is there a bit too much overlap between Milera's preferred role and SPS's new role? Neither are particularly "defensive" players, they're distributors with good vision and disposal, who have been squeezed out of their respective midfields.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Gotta go after 2021 free agents if smear fails again

I'm not 100% sure Papley is gettable.

Sydney didn't seem keen on trading him.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm not 100% sure Papley is gettable.

Sydney didn't seem keen on trading him.

Suspect there will be a lot more open discussion between Papley's camp and Sydney towards the end of the year. And with SOS gone, we'll have a clean slate to go back into negotiations too, without any potential baggage.

Biggest risk is Papley deciding he's actually happy to stay up there (pending personal circumstances, I assume, given his partner works down here), or another club getting in his ear.

 

[Jeremias]

I'm not 100% sure Papley is gettable.

Sydney didn't seem keen on trading him.

Of course they weren't 'keen' on trading him; he's 23, a member of their leadership group, contracted, and one of the best small forwards in the league.

But they were respectful of his situation. They were open to him returning to Victoria but if it was to happen it had to be on their terms. And their terms were that Joe Daniher had to be moving in the opposite direction.

Sydney included pick 9 - which we held - in the proposed deal for Daniher. This indicates to me that they came to the table with Carlton re: Papley and were happy enough with the deal we had on offer.

If he wants to go again at the end of 2020 I think it gets done, much like Gibbs was done a year on from him initially wanting to return home.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Is there a bit too much overlap between Milera's preferred role and SPS's new role? Neither are particularly "defensive" players,
they're distributors with good vision and disposal, who have been squeezed out of their respective midfields.

They are similar players but i see Milera having a much more attacking game possessing elite speed and far superior run and carry style that can open the ground right up. He was recruited as a forward and although like many players that finds them trialed in other positions early on in their career to help develop and find their feet he has the talent to play anywhere imo.
I’d much rather Milera out of the D50 than SPS who i believe is more of a high class midfielder in the making which atm has a fair line in front of it...

 

[JustaBattler]

AFL affords the possibility of changing matchups.

Who does Richmond start in center bounces with in Q1 - will determine how Teague wants to match up.

Just a guess.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I watched carlton win flags for decades knowing nothing about the inner workings of the club - obliviousness suited me well - the internet has given people more information than they need or know what to do with.......

Well said, genuinely. And more time on hands to think about it. Guilty as charged here.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Maybe..I'm not sure considering Lloyd would have also delisted him.
What about Eddie Betts, are you happy he's come back? Because SOS was dead against this, and was overruled by Liddle and Teague.
So should we also not be lauding Liddle for bringing Betts back? Or are we just going to focus on Liddle wanting Ellis as a reason for him to be turfed.
Fact. You, me and 99% of people here wouldn't have a ******* clue what Liddle's contract allows him to do.
Now I'm not in his corner, nor am I in SOS's corner because to be honest, I couldn't give a fat rat's fu** what's happened.

But we are kidding ourselves calling for someone's job considering we know sweet fu** all about what happened, and the reasons behind it.

Could be argued that he should have a knowledge of on field performance minimum and perhaps even a say in list management given that he is accountable for Club performance and selling memberships. Hard to sell a crappy product so, he may want a say in producing a quality product. Doesn’t mean veto power, just a word/whisper/vote during a meeting.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Well why didn’t the previous CEO’s do that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Perhaps Liddell is more brazen in his approach. Clever marketing really.

 

[DangerousD]

Is there a bit too much overlap between Milera's preferred role and SPS's new role? Neither are particularly "defensive" players, they're distributors with good vision and disposal, who have been squeezed out of their respective midfields.

I’m not sure if it’s a fair assumption, but I see Milera as having and providing a lot more run and carry than SPS.
Because of this, I’d love to have them both

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Both can play midfield or forward. IMO you can't have to much talent. If Milera is getable than get him and work out where he fits later. He's a star.

Agree...

 

[iAsbestos]

My only real concern with him is a possible lack of disposal efficiency - but with all due respect to our current midfield I think he’ll at the very least be on a par with most.

Newnes went at 70% in 2019, 71% 2018, 74% 2017, 75% 2016

Gaff went at 71% in 2019, 75% 2018, 74% 2017, 72% 2016

 

[ferrisb]

Newnes went at 70% in 2019, 71% 2018, 74% 2017, 75% 2016

Gaff went at 71% in 2019, 75% 2018, 74% 2017, 72% 2016

AND over those four years....

• Newnes was slightly more inside than Gaff (29.3% of possessions were contested vs Gaff's 26.5%), which tends to hit disposal eff %.
• Newnes is also sligthly more likely to kick the ball - 60.4% of possessions vs 58.9% for Gaff. Don't quote me on this, but I think overall kicking eff % tends to be lower than handball eff %.
• Newnes was also delivering the ball to St Kilda players vs Gaff's WCE teammates. Easier to earn an effective disposal when your teammate is more likely to be in space or win a 50/50 contest.

Each of those factors makes Newnes disposal eff % even more impressive when compared to Gaff's.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

AND over those four years....

• Newnes was slightly more inside than Gaff (29.3% of possessions were contested vs Gaff's 26.5%), which tends to hit disposal eff %.
• Newnes is also sligthly more likely to kick the ball - 60.4% of possessions vs 58.9% for Gaff. Don't quote me on this, but I think overall kicking eff % tends to be lower than handball eff %.
• Newnes was also delivering the ball to St Kilda players vs Gaff's WCE teammates. Easier to earn an effective disposal when your teammate is more likely to be in space or win a 50/50 contest.

Each of those factors makes Newnes disposal eff % even more impressive when compared to Gaff's.

It would come as no surprise that a couple of my St Kilda supporting mates think he's no good. According to them, Jack was a whipping boy for the past couple of years. I tend to disagree based on my viewings of him. The criticism centres around his tendency to kick long without assessing other options. Can burn the footy at times but I believe in a better system and with the opportunity to play a role he will excel in, Jack will be a solid contributor to the team. I watched an intra-club match at Moorabbin last preseason. He played midfield and dominated the game. If you're a winger/hbf/mid and you're forced to play a defensive-forward or forward role then good luck to you. We saw what it did to Murphy and Ed, then bang back in the middle for a huge end to the year. I like the selection by SOS and co as a cheap pickup with a good tank and lots of experience. Good luck to him I say.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It would come as no surprise that a couple of my St Kilda supporting mates think he's no good. According to them, Jack was a whipping boy for the past couple of years. I tend to disagree based on my viewings of him. The criticism centres around his tendency to kick long without assessing other options. Can burn the footy at times but I believe in a better system and with the opportunity to play a role he will excel in, Jack will be a solid contributor to the team. I watched an intra-club match at Moorabbin last preseason. He played midfield and dominated the game. If you're a winger/hbf/mid and you're forced to play a defensive-forward or forward role then good luck to you. We saw what it did to Murphy and Ed, then bang back in the middle for a huge end to the year. I like the selection by SOS and co as a cheap pickup with a good tank and lots of experience. Good luck to him I say.

The disdain for Newnes amongst St Kilda fans stems from one thing.

He's a player who will get 20-25 disposals, 18+ will be effective, he'll have a few that end up with a stoppage, or with the opposition because he just had to clear space....and then there will be that one solitary shank that had the fans tearing their hair out. And for all the good work done, that one kick just sets up camp in their minds and won't leave.

He's like Curnow. Does a heap of good work, but that occasional poor kick perpetuates the myth that he's a ball butcher.

Wouldn't ever go so far as to call him an elite user of the pill, but he is absolutely AFL standard.

 

[thylacine60]

It would come as no surprise that a couple of my St Kilda supporting mates think he's no good. According to them, Jack was a whipping boy for the past couple of years. I tend to disagree based on my viewings of him. The criticism centres around his tendency to kick long without assessing other options. Can burn the footy at times but I believe in a better system and with the opportunity to play a role he will excel in, Jack will be a solid contributor to the team. I watched an intra-club match at Moorabbin last preseason. He played midfield and dominated the game. If you're a winger/hbf/mid and you're forced to play a defensive-forward or forward role then good luck to you. We saw what it did to Murphy and Ed, then bang back in the middle for a huge end to the year. I like the selection by SOS and co as a cheap pickup with a good tank and lots of experience. Good luck to him I say.

play the bloke where he good at.........

 

[Own The Future]

Newnes went at 70% in 2019, 71% 2018, 74% 2017, 75% 2016

Gaff went at 71% in 2019, 75% 2018, 74% 2017, 72% 2016

Fair call.
While I wouldn’t put Gaff in an elite category re efficiency, solely by the eye test I would have put him on a level above Newnes. It is funny how a perception is often not backed up by the stats.
The only thing I do know for sure is that I’m very excited to have him in the navy blue, as regardless of disposal efficiency I think he’ll bring leadership and maturity to a quite young and inexperienced midfield group.

 

[HARKER]

Whereas I would have loved for us to trade for Caldwell this year, I can't see us targeting any young mids, regardless of how much SOS liked them, next year.

We have so many mids right now that could become something or amount to little - Setterfield, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Kemp, Stocker, Philp...just for starters.

Next year looks like - 1. Ruckman 2. Goal-kicking small/medium forward. That's it, all being well.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Whereas I would have loved for us to trade for Caldwell this year, I can't see us targeting any young mids, regardless of how much SOS liked them, next year.

We have so many mids right now that could become something or amount to little - Setterfield, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, Kemp, Stocker, Philp...just for starters.

Next year looks like - 1. Ruckman 2. Goal-kicking small/medium forward. That's it, all being well.

I still think we've got room for one more midfielder, especially given Ed and Murphy will retire in the coming years.

There are a lot of guys on our list that we name as midfielders, but the reality is they're probably better suited to other positions.

Kennedy has arguably shown his best football whilst playing in the forward line. Fisher will hopefully develop into a Gresham type across half forward. SPS to become an elite half back etc.

Keep in mind a few of our mids can act as dangerous targets whilst resting forward. Kemp, Cripps and Setterfield to name a few.