Player Watch #47 Bigoa Nyuon

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Mr Magic said:
Why do you think he might lack confidence??
(I think every new player will need to build build confidence)
Doesn't know what he doesn't know??

Is there any reason you think Bigoa would not believe in himself or not have faith in the supporting staff placing him with challenges not beyond him??
(It’s actually the idea you’ve come up with not the FD)
He seemed undisturbed in the interview and calm with his circumstance and relaxed in his surrounds
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I’m not saying he lacks confidence, I’m talking about your left field idea of him playing on Cripps.
I’ve only seen the clips of his playing that are in the thread and I don’t know he’s played as a midfielder.
I’d like to see him play and see him do what he’s good at.
I think that’s the quickest way to feel good about yourself and probably the quickest way to feeling like he belongs at the level rather than trying to play a position he’s not experienced in against a player who is probably the best at that role in the league.
If you notice the last couple of games against Carlton we don’t bother trying to stop Cripps getting the ball we use that opposing player as extra cover for wherever he’s going to release the ball.
 
Mr Magic said:
Why do you think he might lack confidence??

Doesn't know what he doesn't know??

Is there any reason you think Bigoa would not believe in himself or not have faith in the supporting staff placing him with challenges not beyond him??

He seemed undisturbed in the interview and calm with his circumstance and relaxed in his surrounds
Click to expand...

Mr Magic, we all know you and love you, but what are we going to do with you? You are a danger to yourself. It is like you are building your own straw man argument for us to knock down.

What you are proposing is that in a game for 4 premiership points against a team who are sooner or later going to need to be respected, in a season where you have to assume every win and percentage point might matter, that we take an 18 yo Sudanese born novice and place him in and unfamiliar team, on an unfamiliar ground, in an unfamiliar position and role against a player considered one of the competition’s best, where our team has never needed that role to be performed to beat the opponent easily in the recent past. You are, by suggesting he should be shoe-horned into the team, also by extension suggesting he replaces a premiership player in the team, and in the process leap-frogs about 15 more developed options to play in the AFL Team in round one. Your reasoning for doing this is vague and flimsy at best. It seems to me your whole idea is based on the fact Nyuon is a similar height to Cripps with more pace and a higher leap.

The best of the Sudanese born players in AFL so far, Aliir Aliir, did not play until his 3rd year in the system, and did not play consistently or confidently until his 5th year in the system. Daw has taken 10 years to compile a handful of games. Chol looked promising in his fourth year but did not look like an AFL player until then. Those are the precedents. None of them has ever been assigned any role similar to what you are suggesting for Nyuon to give us anything substantial to support your idea.

Your idea is pointless, as we don’t need to tag Cripps. It is flawed because if we did feel the need to tag him, you would back about 35 players on our list to do a better job than an 18 year old low rated, speculative draftee in his first game ever at the club, in the team, at the level, possibly at the venue, and in that role. Cripps would completely destroy him at every contest plus Nyuon would have no clue where to run to try to exploit Cripps, these are just some of the reasons you develop players over time.

The idea has no merit whatsoever and if the football club started making decisions like this the fabric of the team would very quickly fall apart as players lose confidence in the decision making process. If you have a process that is working well, the sensible thing to do is to stick to it, rather than abandon it for some wishful gambling on undeveloped and unproven players.
 
Cdog71 said:
I’m not saying he lacks confidence, I’m talking about your left field idea of him playing on Cripps.
I’ve only seen the clips of his playing that are in the thread and I don’t know he’s played as a midfielder.
I’d like to see him play and see him do what he’s good at.
I think that’s the quickest way to feel good about yourself and probably the quickest way to feeling like he belongs at the level rather than trying to play a position he’s not experienced in against a player who is probably the best at that role in the league.
If you notice the last couple of games against Carlton we don’t bother trying to stop Cripps getting the ball we use that opposing player as extra cover for wherever he’s going to release the ball.
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Why do you think he does not feel good about himself that he needs a way to feel good about himself?

If you can do things others can't you have the confidence. You know its just a question of how far. Sure his father has not played the game and its not in the blood but fearing the unknown will only hold him back for so long if he is good enough. Bigoa does not have the football historical pedigree due to his background but who's to say if he did he too would not have a spring in his step and an air of confidence and cheekiness about him.

Why talk Bigoa down, why suppress him? You seem to be giving him anchors?? It does not matter what you say, or write the proof will be in his preparedness, opportunity and performance/output no matter what is said!!

I look at him glass half full at the moment, its up to him how far he wants to go. Sure some can manipulate him to suit their agenda but eventually talent will prevail no matter what the intervention.

How would he know what he is good at without the opportunity and guidance??

I am confident he has been on the end of some stereotyping and he has been shaped as a KPP from the initial filters in his development which is understandable. Big would have little knowledge of the game from the get go and is probably going with the flow which is fine. Cripps is 195cm and plays mid, not to many 195cm mids before Cripps so he is a ground breaker as generation after generation are getting taller , why can't Bigoa in Cripp's generation curtail him?? Not saying Bigoa is superman, but why limit him at this stage and reduce any upside for the RFC team going forward??

St Kilda did not rate him pick 54 based on their needs, why not try something different to their train of thought if they had any rationale to their thinking?? What is there to lose?? Does Bigoa not have time on his side and room for further development??
 
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Mr Magic said:
Why do you think he does not feel good about himself that he needs a way to feel good about himself?
Click to expand...
Every single athlete needs to feel good about themselves it’s part of preforming.
Because I say he needs to do that, it doesn’t follow that I think he doesn’t already.

I’m not gonna keep on this line of your imaginings.
I’d like to think they’ll consolidate his strengths and develop them.
To start off his career attempting to change him into something he has never done before is only setting him up for failure.

And lastly, Cripps has always played midfield even in his junior years.
He just happened to grow 80mm in a year
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Mr Magic, we all know you and love you, but what are we going to do with you? You are a danger to yourself. It is like you are building your own straw man argument for us to knock down.

What you are proposing is that in a game for 4 premiership points against a team who are sooner or later going to need to be respected, in a season where you have to assume every win and percentage point might matter, that we take an 18 yo Sudanese born novice and place him in and unfamiliar team, on an unfamiliar ground, in an unfamiliar position and role against a player considered one of the competition’s best, where our team has never needed that role to be performed to beat the opponent easily in the recent past. You are, by suggesting he should be shoe-horned into the team, also by extension suggesting he replaces a premiership player in the team, and in the process leap-frogs about 15 more developed options to play in the AFL Team in round one. Your reasoning for doing this is vague and flimsy at best. It seems to me your whole idea is based on the fact Nyuon is a similar height to Cripps with more pace and a higher leap.

The best of the Sudanese born players in AFL so far, Aliir Aliir, did not play until his 3rd year in the system, and did not play consistently or confidently until his 5th year in the system. Daw has taken 10 years to compile a handful of games. Chol looked promising in his fourth year but did not look like an AFL player until then. Those are the precedents. None of them has ever been assigned any role similar to what you are suggesting for Nyuon to give us anything substantial to support your idea.

Your idea is pointless, as we don’t need to tag Cripps. It is flawed because if we did feel the need to tag him, you would back about 35 players on our list to do a better job than an 18 year old low rated, speculative draftee in his first game ever at the club, in the team, at the level, possibly at the venue, and in that role. Cripps would completely destroy him at every contest plus Nyuon would have no clue where to run to try to exploit Cripps, these are just some of the reasons you develop players over time.

The idea has no merit whatsoever and if the football club started making decisions like this the fabric of the team would very quickly fall apart as players lose confidence in the decision making process. If you have a process that is working well, the sensible thing to do is to stick to it, rather than abandon it for some wishful gambling on undeveloped and unproven players.
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Extremely well written.

Unfortunately you seem to have been ensnared in a classic Mr. Magic trap. If you like circular arguments... carry on...

I have only seen this kid play once on TV in an U18 game (not Champs). He was patrolling the backline and very much like Allir Allir. Very good reader of the ball. Safe hands, and confidence to run and carry with good decision making and disposal. Still a lot of development needed for senior football, but has the tools. Could very well become a very good player at AFL level, and as a backman would be where he gets developed imo.
 
Cdog71 said:
Every single athlete needs to feel good about themselves it’s part of preforming.
Because I say he needs to do that, it doesn’t follow that I think he doesn’t already.

I’m not gonna keep on this line of your imaginings.
I’d like to think they’ll consolidate his strengths and develop them.
To start off his career attempting to change him into something he has never done before is only setting him up for failure.

And lastly, Cripps has always played midfield even in his junior years.
He just happened to grow 80mm in a year
Click to expand...


You stated'Every single athlete needs to feel good about themselves it’s part of preforming.' . My observation is this, unless he has an issue, sickness, mental illness, whatever, if he is good enough he already will feel good so this is a fake barrier in the long term development. In fact part of the recruitment would be to get recruits that do not have such an issue and need to be warmed up in their ability to feel good!!

You state , "To start off his career attempting to change him into something he has never done before is only setting him up for failure." To me you are contradicting himself. With so much to work with how does he fail??? He has so much going for him compared to the rest he gets 4 years minimum in my book at least even if he fails in one aspect that cannot be developed!! He is just starting, he is not set to change anything at all!! RFC is correct, Bigoa is a blank canvas. He is not going to change his kicking and marking!!! All one is saying instead of defending a 195 cm key forward, defend a 195cm midfielder!! Thats not much of a change in my book. You are the one talking about failure, I believe in Big, I think he will surprise you and kick a lot of goals. You are too negative in my book like a elitist talking down brexit!!! You cannot stop progress.

Cripps is the first 195cm mid. No one has failed as a 195cm mid yet because it has never been tried. If Bigoa fails as a mid hybrid he will be the first so he is history on his side although Richo was successful as a 195cm plus wing.

He might end up being a back and just a back but why not give him a crack at something else especially if it makes the RFC team a lot better??
 
Mr Magic said:
You stated'Every single athlete needs to feel good about themselves it’s part of preforming.' . My observation is this, unless he has an issue, sickness, mental illness, whatever, if he is good enough he already will feel good so this is a fake barrier in the long term development. In fact part of the recruitment would be to get recruits that do not have such an issue and need to be warmed up in their ability to feel good!!

You state , "To start off his career attempting to change him into something he has never done before is only setting him up for failure." To me you are contradicting himself. With so much to work with how does he fail??? He has so much going for him compared to the rest he gets 4 years minimum in my book at least even if he fails in one aspect that cannot be developed!! He is just starting, he is not set to change anything at all!! RFC is correct, Bigoa is a blank canvas. He is not going to change his kicking and marking!!! All one is saying instead of defending a 195 cm key forward, defend a 195cm midfielder!! Thats not much of a change in my book. You are the one talking about failure, I believe in Big, I think he will surprise you and kick a lot of goals. You are too negative in my book like a elitist talking down brexit!!! You cannot stop progress.

Cripps is the first 195cm mid. No one has failed as a 195cm mid yet because it has never been tried. If Bigoa fails as a mid hybrid he will be the first so he is history on his side although Richo was successful as a 195cm plus wing.

He might end up being a back and just a back but why not give him a crack at something else especially if it makes the RFC team a lot better??
Click to expand...
You my friend are a very rare individual and I have to tip my hat.
I look forward to seeing how he goes.
 
Mr Magic said:
You stated'Every single athlete needs to feel good about themselves it’s part of preforming.' . My observation is this, unless he has an issue, sickness, mental illness, whatever, if he is good enough he already will feel good so this is a fake barrier in the long term development. In fact part of the recruitment would be to get recruits that do not have such an issue and need to be warmed up in their ability to feel good!!

You state , "To start off his career attempting to change him into something he has never done before is only setting him up for failure." To me you are contradicting himself. With so much to work with how does he fail??? He has so much going for him compared to the rest he gets 4 years minimum in my book at least even if he fails in one aspect that cannot be developed!! He is just starting, he is not set to change anything at all!! RFC is correct, Bigoa is a blank canvas. He is not going to change his kicking and marking!!! All one is saying instead of defending a 195 cm key forward, defend a 195cm midfielder!! Thats not much of a change in my book. You are the one talking about failure, I believe in Big, I think he will surprise you and kick a lot of goals. You are too negative in my book like a elitist talking down brexit!!! You cannot stop progress.

Cripps is the first 195cm mid. No one has failed as a 195cm mid yet because it has never been tried. If Bigoa fails as a mid hybrid he will be the first so he is history on his side although Richo was successful as a 195cm plus wing.

He might end up being a back and just a back but why not give him a crack at something else especially if it makes the RFC team a lot better??
Click to expand...
Perhaps you could wait to see if he can actually play before giving him the toughest gig in footy. Give him a crack no doubt if they feel he can do it, in the VFL.
 
Grrr said:
Perhaps you could wait to see if he can actually play before giving him the toughest gig in footy. Give him a crack no doubt if they feel he can do it, in the VFL.
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Being Dusty is far tougher than negating Cripps for starters, kicking his goals with the fends etc..

Being Sydney Stack and doing what he does on the field is harder than tagging Cripps.

Being JR, being Lynch and doing what they do kicking goals is harder. Being Grimes and defending like Rance is harder

I am not talking about Bigoa doing a Cripps. I am talking about Bigoa tagging Cripps. This means reducing the possessions Cripps gets including from the ruck in terms of positioning, being in front, having more pace, having longer higher reach, reducing Cripps effectiveness. No tagger is going to stop Cripps completely obviously. At the same time Bigoa could learn a lot from him in the way he position himself, is aggressive, wins the ball, etc.. where Cripps has a similar height to Bigoa
 
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Grrr said:
Perhaps you could wait to see if he can actually play before giving him the toughest gig in footy. Give him a crack no doubt if they feel he can do it, in the VFL.
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This is one area where the club has got really good. Mostly if they want to trial a player in a new position/role it is not done at AFL level but back in the suburbs at VFL level. Bolton, Caddy, Baker, Mcintosh were a few in 2019 and then Balta sent to VFL to learn KPD rather than throw him back there in AFL.
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
You are, by suggesting he should be shoe-horned into the team, also by extension suggesting he replaces a premiership player in the team, and in the process leap-frogs about 15 more developed options to play in the AFL Team in round one. Your reasoning for doing this is vague and flimsy at best. It seems to me your whole idea is based on the fact Nyuon is a similar height to Cripps with more pace and a higher leap.

The best of the Sudanese born players in AFL so far, Aliir Aliir, did not play until his 3rd year in the system, and did not play consistently or confidently until his 5th year in the system. Daw has taken 10 years to compile a handful of games. Chol looked promising in his fourth year but did not look like an AFL player until then. Those are the precedents. None of them has ever been assigned any role similar to what
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stranger things have happened

personally i think newrance is an outside chance of making it

chol played in his first year and its essentially racist to compare them in such a manner. Bigy has played footy all his life too

he will get a lot of support with Vlastuin, Grimes, Astbury etc. and if he gets a game he could do well?
 
Marcel Proust said:
stranger things have happened

personally i think newrance is an outside chance of making it

chol played in his first year and its essentially racist to compare them in such a manner. Bigy has played footy all his life too

he will get a lot of support with Vlastuin, Grimes, Astbury etc. and if he gets a game he could do well?
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racist[ rey-sist ]
noun
a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that one's own racial group is superior or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you like to amend your bolded statement Marcel? You are describing something I wrote as being “essentially” racist and it is not even vaguely related to racism. You are just serving to confuse people about what racism actually is with silly statements like that.

And if you cannot see that Daw-Aliir-Chol and Nyuon relate more closely to each other(through their genes) as athletes and footballers than they do to any other players at AFL level then you are missing the blindingly obvious. Nyuon may track faster because he has played more junior football but there are not too many 195cm+ types who hit the ground running at AFL level regardless of what their background is.

Chol’s first year was 2016 and Chol played one game but I think they just about saddled Guiseppe Mamone up for a game that year we were struggling so much. The main point I was making is you are not going to expect Bigoa Nyuon to play meaningfully before about 2023 no matter what line of relevant precedents you follow, Sudanese players, tall players, key position players, skinny players, 50+ draft picks, or whatever.

Even oldrance took years to find his feet at AFL level. We all hope the youngster does well, but by my calculations making the team regularly by 2023 would be doing very well.

And your apology is accepted by the way.
 
THE_GUN said:
I liked this pick

This kid has come to the right club to make the most of his chances, He will be tutored by the best defenders in the league and best coaches to fulfil his dream.

There are alot of very good draft watchers who really rate biggy
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Thats a bonus we have over others teams like the stupid magpies who can't development key position players that well. I wonder if he could still grow more?
 
tony__montana said:
Darren Bewick who was his coach at Rowville this year mentioned in an article he is 201cm - dont know if thats fact or not.
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Dont think it is to be honest , Seen him standing next to Chol prior to Xmas and you could see he was a few inches shorter
I would say 194/196 range
 
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