Strategy The midfield

[Jeremias]

There has been a lot of discussion creeping into other threads about our midfield, but it deserves its own thread.

We enter 2020 still reliant on an experienced few, though the depth we have managed to build in this area of the ground is seriously impressive. We now have a glut of talent who could feature prominently, albeit many are very young and require further development.

The proof will as always be in the pudding, but it is very hard to not get excited about what this group may produce in 2020 and beyond, and it all starts in the midfield.

For a while now I have wanted to take a deeper look into our midfield, and 2020 is finally the year to do it.
I will be posting in this thread a weekly update on formations, success rates and any other stats relevant to the midfield debate.

In the meantime, I am keen to hear what you think is our optimal midfield setup come R1 vs the Tigers?
What are your expectations for our midfield group in 2020?
What do you see as the strengths and weaknesses of our midfield options, both individually and as a collective?
Are there any specific types you think we need to target come the player movement period at the end of 2020?

For reference, this is the midfield group we recently voted as being our consensus best 22:

C: Sam Walsh, Patrick Cripps, Will Setterfield
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer, Ed Curnow, Marc Murphy
INT: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Zac Fisher, Jack Newnes

Whether or not you agree with this as being our best setup to start the year, there is no doubt this is a very talented group. Even more telling perhaps is the caliber of footballers who would be waiting in reserve.

Have at it.

 

[Arr0w]

Jesus Christ man - I haven't missed the 'point'

Having one stint in the midfield per game doesn't make you a midfielder.
Players have strengths and weaknesses and playing midfield isn't a 'everybody can do it' type role. No role is.

Want to give yourself a gold medal? Go right ahead

Why do players need to be labelled midfielders?

Modern game requires players to play multiple positions

We are building versatility and while the #consensusbest22 is a bit of fun, clubs don't pigeonhole players in that manner

 

[HARKER]

Why do players need to be labelled midfielders?
Modern game requires players to play multiple positions
We are building versatility and while the #consensusbest22 is a bit of fun, clubs don't pigeonhole players in that manner

Maybe that's the problem with some clubs - They're not sure what they're doing (See Newnes' statement)

Some players are more adept at some skills than others (I don't believe I'm even saying this)
We thought we'd manage with Polson, ECunow and Gibbons as small forwards - What an unmitigated disaster that turned out to be.
Teague knew this would be the case and even I knew this but somehow Bolton had other ideas.

I'm personally over this whole versatility thing - The baker makes the candles, butcher makes the bread and the candlestick-maker cuts the meat.

Just get me the right players and train them up to the endth degree, to be the best they can be at the craft they excel in and work within the parameters outlined by the coach.
Give me a cohesive back-line that's spent time together, a midfield that takes first possession of the ball and runs both ways, and forwards that know what a goal is and tackling is a pre-requisite. None of this 'He's a good pressure forward but couldn't kick goals to save themselves' stuff. Seen it and it doesn't work.

.......and yes, good midfielders are generally termed as midfielders. No shame being a wing-man, a back-man or a forward and just because you've been asked to cover for the preferred mids, doesn't make you a midfielder (and I mean centre square midfielder) by default.

 

[Arr0w]

Maybe that's the problem with some clubs - They're not sure what they're doing (See Newnes' statement)

Some players are more adept at some skills than others (I don't believe I'm even saying this)
We thought we'd manage with Polson, ECunow and Gibbons as small forwards - What an unmitigated disaster that turned out to be.
Teague knew this would be the case and even I knew this but somehow Bolton had other ideas.

I'm personally over this whole versatility thing - The baker makes the candles, butcher makes the bread and the candlestick-maker cuts the meat.

Just get me the right players and train them up to the endth degree, to be the best they can be at the craft they excel in and work within the parameters outlined by the coach.
Give me a cohesive back-line that's spent time together, a midfield that takes first possession of the ball and runs both ways, and forwards that know what a goal is and tackling is a pre-requisite. None of this 'He's a good pressure forward but couldn't kick goals to save themselves' stuff. Seen it and it doesn't work.

.......and yes, good midfielders are generally termed as midfielders. No shame being a wing-man, a back-man or a forward and just because you've been asked to cover for the preferred mids, doesn't make you a midfielder (and I mean centre square midfielder) by default.

Harks, you are living in the wrong era

Last time then I am moving on, all clubs have 5-6 players that play through the middle, then multiple other players that rotate through there and you know it

Cherry picking a couple of players, developing or due to other reasons, from struggling clubs are poor examples

It's like saying Dusty will only play as a mid and never be used forward, because we call him a midfielder

You want black or white and in most cases with players, that rarely exists

I couldn't give a **** what pigeon hole term people want to use, players with versatility are king

 

[HARKER]

Harks, you are living in the wrong era

Last time then I am moving on, all clubs have 5-6 players that play through the middle, then multiple other players that rotate through there and you know it

Cherry picking a couple of players, developing or due to other reasons, from struggling clubs are poor examples

It's like saying Dusty will only play as a mid and never be used forward, because we call him a midfielder

You want black or white and in most cases with players, that rarely exists

I couldn't give a fck what pigeon hole term people want to use, players with versatility are king

Pretty sure I'm living in the same era Arrow, just see things differently.

You may sooner 'the jack of all trades but the master of none' - I just side the other way.

 

[Arr0w]

Pretty sure I'm living in the same era Arrow, just see things differently.

You may sooner 'the jack of all trades but the master of none' - I just side the other way.

How you "side" contradicts what every club is doing and will continue to do

I shared my thoughts about how many and which players would play predominately through the middle and who the possible rotations could be. This is also backed up by stats. Those stats show what I have described.

An example, you state that SPS is training with the backline so won't/couldn't be used in the middle. Where was he training last year, the middle? So how the hell did he end up on a HBF? Lucky we have players with versatility.

I still don't understand what you are even debating, after I have addressed everyone of your points

Try this maybe.

State how many and who are going to be used only as mids, who will rotate and who will never spend a minute at centre bounces or stoppages between the arcs

Once we have that number we can compare that to actual, not just for our club, but every club

Are we done yet?

 

[JustaBattler]

Three functions expected of a good midfield combo: win ball/Tackle - get ball into forward 50.

Kreuzer/Cripps/Ed/Setterfield are all good enough to win a fair share of the hard ball.
This means take your pick out of Walsh/Murphy/Dow/Stocker/Fisher/LoB/Gibbons/Newnes (and maybe Williamson) as blokes whose job it will be to pick between any of the forwards to kick to in forward 50.

I'm assuming both Charlie and Harry won't be playing AFL for at least a month into the season - doesn't matter since Teague now has

Martin McGovern Cuningham
Kennedy Levi Betts

to use as a 'second string' forward line.

The only assumption I make in the second string forward line is Kennedy's ability to run has improved - otherwise slot in Jack whose only weakness is set shots.

I expect Carlton to be kicking 4-6 more goals on average each game this year against anyone. This could end up being conservative IF Harry gets over his groin issues and Charlie gets back to his best - since both these blokes can kick a goal from outside 50.

There is enough class now at Carlton - first time in two decades to demand performance from players week in week out.

Over the year - I expect Stocker to force his way into the side as a genuine explosive on baller who has a decent kick - kid has genuine mongrel which is a bonus - which Cripps will no doubt enjoy. Later in teh year we might get to see Kemp have a late season run - opposition by that time shoudl start packing an extra pair of undies.

 

[windows1]

Not sure we’ll see it in 2020, but don’t think there’s anything wrong with the idea of Walsh seeing centre square minutes.

He saw plenty in 2019. He will see a lot in 2020. He’s perfectly suited for first receiver. I see Cripps, Ed and Setters being right at the coal face. Walsh and Murph first receiver. The rest are up for grabs and I toy with many options. Eg I quite like Dow and Cunners splitting time mid and high half forward. Provided Dow has improved fitness and kicking. It’s too easy to forget he has BRILLIANT hands below knees and explosiveness.

 

[windows1]

It’s q myth that “lots of guys run through the middle” - as if to provide a silent premise that the time is shared. Facts last year showed that wasn’t the case. Only 4-5 guys get any meaningful time in the middle. The other guys get 1,2 goes max a game. Just a token thing. Not a strategy. And not frankly relevant.

There will be 4-5 guys barring injury who will start in the middle.

 

[Coona Blues]

It’s q myth that “lots of guys run through the middle” - as if to provide a silent premise that the time is shared. Facts last year showed that wasn’t the case. Only 4-5 guys get any meaningful time in the middle. The other guys get 1,2 goes max a game. Just a token thing. Not a strategy. And not frankly relevant.

There will be 4-5 guys barring injury who will start in the middle.

Surely, it is just as pertinent to discuss the numbers that will get around the ball at throw ins and around the ground ball ups. There are more of them than midfield bounces, so the club and various on-ballers will be putting plenty of work in. May not see much of Fisher, Ed, Gibbo, Cuners or even Murph at the bounces, but be certain they will be doing plenty of stoppage drills.

 

[Arr0w]

Will dig out the numbers for who attended centre bounces, but for now, players that had centre clearances

The mainstay mids and of course the rotations

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Removing the ruckmen, 19 different players had centre clearances

BTW, Tigers had similar

 

[Stamos]

Will dig out the numbers for who attended centre bounces, but for now, players that had centre clearances

The mainstay mids and of course the rotations

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Removing the ruckmen, 19 different players had centre clearances

BTW, Tigers had similar

There was an Essendon supporter who posted who attended the centre in the post game threads, though not for every game. Under Teague, there were very few going to the centre square.

Centre Clearances aren’t really the right stat to use, because wingmen, or half forwards or half backs can still win the centre clearance if the ball doesn’t come out right away.

 

[VainGlorious]

Trouble ranking 6-12, but an overview of how I see our mids and their roles. How much inside time will be afforded will be a wait and see.

CRIPPS - Cripps is Cripps, extractor extaordinaire, but so much more. If I have a criticism it is that he is often guilty of trying to do too much and sometimes precludes his team mates playing a prominent role. This of course is borne from years of having to do more than his share, it is hard to throttle back when the pack catches up sometimes. More time forward and a greater focus of bringing his mates in to the game are the areas he can possibly alter.

SETTERFIELD - The next big thing, rated highly by SOS and co. (and many others) ravaged by injury in his formative years. Gave us a glimpse last year of just what he is capable of. The Bont comparison is perhaps the closest. Can play virtually anywhere, but surely he will ultimately be a centre square midfielder. How quickly this comes about is the question? Can play outside, back, forward, but if the ceiling is as high as he has, why not use him as a prime mover as soon as he is ready?

WALSH - Superlatives abound, we can be sure there will be no second year blues with this one. Debate rages over wing or centre square, and he could easily play either or both. Is just a classical ball hunter, getting to the right spots with an enormous tank. For mine it must be preferable to utilise these natural hunters in the middle rather than pushing up players still building a "tank" and not naturally predisposed to two way running.

MURPHY - Languished under Bolton, I had him written off. Wow, did he turn it around when returned to the coalface? Would have had him entering his last year next season as per contract, but if he finds his late form again this season, it will not be the case. Thanking him for reminding us of vintage Murphy and why he was a one time MVP. Fit and motivated must stay in the mix, but may still be moved around a bit to accommodate some of our young guns.

CURNOW - The classic workhorse, warrior, team man. His skills and value to the team are sometimes under appreciated by a few. Finished the season in fine form and hard to see the kids going past him just yet. That time will come though, and where we are at may see it unfortunately happening a tad prematurely. Not beyond the realms of possibility he will be asked to reprise his pressure forward role at times while the kids are blooded.

DOW - The conundrum, the "girl with a curl", when he is good, he is very, very good, when he is bad he is awful. I do not for one minute question his potential, his ceiling remains very high. I rate disposal and willingness to worth both ways as non negotiables, so find it hard to have him best 22 in front of some other contenders, but if he has a lightbulb experience is a lock. ??????

STOCKER - Confident young man who has a task to push in to the midfield rotations. Likes a contest and his dual sided disposal is an absolute weapon that would be most welcome coming out of the middle. Can play defence or probably off a wing, but hard to see him anywhere but the guts in years to come. Can he force his way past his experienced team mates this year?

KENNEDY - Has struggled with his body, and subsequently fitness. He is a favourite of mine and offers that something many of his peers don't. That willingness to block and do the one percenters as well as hunting the ball. I had him more of an athlete than his GWS compatriot Hopper, so will be interested to see him after a solid preseason. Capable and creative forward making him "easier" to incorporate in to the 22 for mine.

SILVAGNI - We will never die wondering with Jack, 110% is the norm. Three young talls, Levi, TDK transitioning, perhaps Kennedy and Kemp for the future, make the forward line a competitive spot for talls. Hold a few more marks and he has a spot there. But, I see him as a genuine midfielder, cameos, including the Fyfe blanket suggest he "belongs". An improving tank and maturity will see him press for minutes. Will they be available?

FISHER - One of the bigger conundrums. Can't help but feel he got a little ahead of himself after "starring" in AFLX pre season last year. Only small, but those dancing feet, good vision and disposal give him claims for midfield time. Stated to be concentrating on forward craft pre season, but will be champing at the bit for midfield time. Has real claims.

CUNINGHAM - Most of us see him as a forward staple, and likely that is where he will spend the majority of his time. However is also a capable and explosive midfielder and the club has always given him inside minutes when he has been fit. In the mix, with likely cameos mixed with working up the ground from forward line.

PETREVSKI-SETON - More than capable in the middle and will only improve with maturity. However, seems set to play off half back utilising his skills, smarts and dual sided disposal to set up our forays forward. Lock in to the backline.

GIBBONS - Can't help but love the little pest. Under rated by many, but may still struggle for opportunity at the coal face. I can't help but think he may be as effective as Murphy at the stoppages, but will he get the opportunity? Plenty of competition for outside mid/high half forward spots. If we don't use him in the 22, almost certain to look for (and get) opportunity elsewhere.

O'BRIEN - One of my young favourites. Disposal is a weapon, but can be inconsistent. Needs to tighten up and back his own game, as guilty of being a little conservative at times (Bolton legacy) Feel he is capable in the middle, but wing is his spot. Can see him off there for a decade, but has to earn it first.

NEWNES - Experienced, professional, talented, it would be easy to pick and forget on wing or half back. Could easily play 22 games or could play almost none. Which path is Teaguey and co going to take? Thinking the praccy matches might seal it one way or the other. Can play in guts, but best outside.

COTTRELL - Up against it to force his way in to a talent laden team, but with pace, endurance and quality disposal certainly has his claims. More capable inside than some realise, but his value would be as a linking, running wing or rebounding from half back. Would not totally surprise if he was given an opportunity to audition as a small forward in the twos as well. I love what he offers, but needs opportunity and must form an irrefutable case.

MARTIN - Primarily a forward or outside type, who can both rebound from defence and contribute inside. Very hard to see him utilised for more than cameos in the midfield given our list and the value of his skill set forward.

DOCHERTY - Co skipper and backline general. Was being groomed for midfield role before injury, but difficult to see that happening now with our bevy of developing young stars. Certain to be a defensive staple for the remainder of his career.

LANG - Has struggled with injury and while it may just be an appearance, intensity often seems lacking. Again appears on "light duties" at the start of preseason, needs a huge year to remain on the list for mine. Will be up against it to get senior opportunity with a healthy list.

POLSON - Loved his draft video and happy to see him get opportunity. However, unlike some on here, I see his issues as more than positional. Lost me when viewing Qld camp last year. Mildly slippery conditions and he consistently spilled basic passes through his fingers. Literally under 12's stuff, team mates and coaches stressing thumb position. Not talking one or two misses, double figures under no pressure. I am off him.

KEMP - ACL gives us the "luxury" of time to incorporate him in to the rotations, if in fact that is where he ends up long term. Prodigious talent likely to have a variety of roles in his formative years. Unlikely to be thought of as a first team midfielder in his first two years.

PHILP - The "bolter" was well known to me and plenty of others before the draft. Is a footballer first and his speed is a weapon. It is difficult to see him being groomed as a centre square mid in the short term. While a "contested beast" lightning quick and has spend time forward to advantage. Expect to see his role rotated in the twos exploring prospects all over the ground. Plenty of upside.

RAMSAY - Prolific when moved to the engine room and has great skills. Has history off half back and on the wing, but excelled in the guts. Like the other later picks we selected, has skills that could also transfer forward. Reckon SOS and co have had more of a throw at the stumps regarding forwards than many realise.

HONEY - While well regarded by a few posters here, I see him as a forward or bust type. Skilled, but inconsistent, a speculative profile we were happy to run with. Not writing him off, but late/rookie was his spot. Ball is in his court, but I can't see a midfielder there.

I was going to say that!

Great post Coona

 

[Arr0w]

There was an Essendon supporter who posted who attended the centre in the post game threads, though not for every game. Under Teague, there were very few going to the centre square.

Centre Clearances aren’t really the right stat to use, because wingmen, or half forwards or half backs can still win the centre clearance if the ball doesn’t come out right away.

I will get the stats for you, you will be surprised how many players rotate through the middle

 

[therubbernub]

I have gone for experience over potential for my round 1 team. Itis still a youngish team but I have included Murph and Ed as starting on ballers. Walsh, SPS and Dow are the youngest.
I have moved Doc onto the wing because I believe it gets him out of congestion a bit , taking pressure off his knee. I also think he is ready to be part of our midfield, but I dont want him as an inside mid. His disposal and composure into our forward line could be invaluable.
I have gone with Walsh on the other wing. He picks himself really, and I agree with others that he is not yet ready to be an inside mid, although this guy can surprise anyone with what he is capable of.
SPS has been moved out of the midfield , not because he isn't capable, but because I have had to find other positions for our younger mids. His time stopping composure and ability to weight his kicks could give us a great advantage off half back initiating many forward assaults.
Mathew Kennedy showed enough last year as a forward that I have him as a HFF. His ability to take a good grab as well as his strength when the ball hits the ground to get the ball out to someone like Martin or Betts makes him a good addition to the forward line.
On the Bench I have Setterfield, Gibbons, Dow and Newnes.
Not may would argue with Setterfield as a worthy first rotation inside mid.
Dow may not make it in some peoples eyes, but he is going into his 3rd year and has all the tools to be developed into a burst mid like Dangerfield. He has to be developed in the AFL side IMO.
Gibbons showed in 2019 that his best position is part of the midfield rotation. He takes the position of one of the younger mids, but I think we need that extra mature body.
Newnes is in there as a versatile running mature body. He will rotate across the wings and into the midfield.
As you can see there is some real quality in the UNLUCKIES

 

[Space Cadet]

Just a little snapshot of what all teams were doing up to May this year Harks

We are not trying to recreate the wheel, nor is any other side

The men in the guts: Who goes in, who clears it, best combos

AFL.com.au takes a look at your go-to guys, most successful starting four and much more

www.afl.com.au

The general trend in this article looks like most teams have 3 (sometimes 4) strongly preferred starting players (around 120 appearances) + a ruckman, and then a handful of 2nd stringers who get significantly less center bounces per game.

 

[Space Cadet]

How i see the starting 3 currently: Cripps/Murph/Walsh
Pretty clear they're our best mids imo. Ed will be in the mix too.
It's up to the others (Setterfield) to push someone out. Won't be Cripps, and I suspect neither Murph or Walsh want to start anywhere else.

 

[Jeremias]

He saw plenty in 2019. He will see a lot in 2020. He’s perfectly suited for first receiver. I see Cripps, Ed and Setters being right at the coal face. Walsh and Murph first receiver. The rest are up for grabs and I toy with many options. Eg I quite like Dow and Cunners splitting time mid and high half forward. Provided Dow has improved fitness and kicking. It’s too easy to forget he has BRILLIANT hands below knees and explosiveness.

Good post and you raise an excellent point about the type of footballer we want at centre bounces.

It is all well and good to put names down on paper but footy isn't won on paper. You do need different types in there working together.

Too few of a particular type and you can be really exposed, but so too can that be the case if things swing too far in the opposite direction. And that is my one major concern with the talk of Wines possibly coming in.

Traditionally they have been known as centre mid, rover and ruck rover, but what does that actually mean? Do those names hold any relevance at all these days or are they simply relics of decades past?

When I think of my ideal centre square setup, I want:

- A ruck;
- An inside bull;
- A 'first receiver'; and
- ...........

A ruck
Pretty straightforward here with Kreuzer our clear #1 option, not so much for his tap work but for the effort and the intensity he brings to each contest.
Pittonet next in line with TDK developing but likely a few years off it yet.
McKay, Casboult etc can pinch hit and provide relief, but if Kreuzer isn't available for whatever reason, I want one of Pittonet or TDK in there.

An Inside Bull
Cripps isn't just an inside bull, he is the inside bull. The best contested ball player in the league.
But who else can play this role?
Ed is probably our next best but given his assets we are better off with him elsewhere.
Kennedy maybe at a stretch.
Dow, Setterfield, Stocker....maybe.

A First Receiver
What are the traits you look for in the ideal 'first receiver'? I agree with you - clean hands and explosiveness.
And when I look for those two characteristics three players stand out to me - Fisher, Dow and Cuningham.
Murphy is certainly an option but probably lacks that pace these days though he remains terrific on the spread. Walsh....maybe.
I actually think Martin could be a terrific option here but he looks destined for a role up forward. SPS too but we'll likely see him mostly off half back.

...........
And then we reach the third mid in the centre square. I haven't put a name to it and I think that lends itself to the flexibility it allows - it could be another inside bull or it could be another first receiver.
Alternatively it may be defined by matchups and you may choose to put a tagger in there. Or you could be after more pace etc.
Again, very up in the air and very situation dependent but we may look for a more mature body here to help Cripps.

So all that brings me back to my starting midfield come R1:

C: Walsh - Cripps - Newnes
R: Kreuzer - Setterfield - Murphy

I think I might've just talked myself out of putting Murphy in there. As stated previously I don't have Dow in that 22 but the more I look at it the more I wonder why.

We started 2019 with Cripps, Dow and Fisher. And there's certainly a case to be made for starting the same way again in 2020.

 

[Jabba73]

Cripps, Setterfield, Stocker. Good luck getting the ball off those three.

After we beat the shit out of their mids, open the game up by throwing Dow, Fisher and SPS in for creative cameos. Ed or JSOS comes in if someone gets off the leash.

Walsh locks down one wing, Martin or Williamson the other depending on the need to negate someone or attack.

 

[VainGlorious]

Cripps, Setterfield, Stocker. Good luck getting the ball off those three.

After we beat the shit out of their mids, open the game up by throwing Dow, Fisher and SPS in for creative cameos. Ed or JSOS comes in if someone gets off the leash.

Walsh locks down one wing, Martin or Williamson the other depending on the need to negate someone or attack.

May as well not dilly dally and give us the bloody cup now!

 

[HARKER]

Cripps, Setterfield, Stocker. Good luck getting the ball off those three.

After we beat the shit out of their mids, open the game up by throwing Dow, Fisher and SPS in for creative cameos. Ed or JSOS comes in if someone gets off the leash.

Walsh locks down one wing, Martin or Williamson the other depending on the need to negate someone or attack.

You know what surprised me in regards to the way clubs approached the new 6-6-6 format this year?

I would have thought the players on the wing would have sprinted in, to be in position to take second possession, but in the most the wingers just jogged into the mix and didn't get into the best spots to become immediately active.

 

[iAsbestos]

Trouble ranking 6-12, but an overview of how I see our mids and their roles. How much inside time will be afforded will be a wait and see.

CRIPPS - Cripps is Cripps, extractor extaordinaire, but so much more. If I have a criticism it is that he is often guilty of trying to do too much and sometimes precludes his team mates playing a prominent role. This of course is borne from years of having to do more than his share, it is hard to throttle back when the pack catches up sometimes. More time forward and a greater focus of bringing his mates in to the game are the areas he can possibly alter.

SETTERFIELD - The next big thing, rated highly by SOS and co. (and many others) ravaged by injury in his formative years. Gave us a glimpse last year of just what he is capable of. The Bont comparison is perhaps the closest. Can play virtually anywhere, but surely he will ultimately be a centre square midfielder. How quickly this comes about is the question? Can play outside, back, forward, but if the ceiling is as high as he has, why not use him as a prime mover as soon as he is ready?

WALSH - Superlatives abound, we can be sure there will be no second year blues with this one. Debate rages over wing or centre square, and he could easily play either or both. Is just a classical ball hunter, getting to the right spots with an enormous tank. For mine it must be preferable to utilise these natural hunters in the middle rather than pushing up players still building a "tank" and not naturally predisposed to two way running.

MURPHY - Languished under Bolton, I had him written off. Wow, did he turn it around when returned to the coalface? Would have had him entering his last year next season as per contract, but if he finds his late form again this season, it will not be the case. Thanking him for reminding us of vintage Murphy and why he was a one time MVP. Fit and motivated must stay in the mix, but may still be moved around a bit to accommodate some of our young guns.

CURNOW - The classic workhorse, warrior, team man. His skills and value to the team are sometimes under appreciated by a few. Finished the season in fine form and hard to see the kids going past him just yet. That time will come though, and where we are at may see it unfortunately happening a tad prematurely. Not beyond the realms of possibility he will be asked to reprise his pressure forward role at times while the kids are blooded.

DOW - The conundrum, the "girl with a curl", when he is good, he is very, very good, when he is bad he is awful. I do not for one minute question his potential, his ceiling remains very high. I rate disposal and willingness to worth both ways as non negotiables, so find it hard to have him best 22 in front of some other contenders, but if he has a lightbulb experience is a lock. ??????

STOCKER - Confident young man who has a task to push in to the midfield rotations. Likes a contest and his dual sided disposal is an absolute weapon that would be most welcome coming out of the middle. Can play defence or probably off a wing, but hard to see him anywhere but the guts in years to come. Can he force his way past his experienced team mates this year?

KENNEDY - Has struggled with his body, and subsequently fitness. He is a favourite of mine and offers that something many of his peers don't. That willingness to block and do the one percenters as well as hunting the ball. I had him more of an athlete than his GWS compatriot Hopper, so will be interested to see him after a solid preseason. Capable and creative forward making him "easier" to incorporate in to the 22 for mine.

SILVAGNI - We will never die wondering with Jack, 110% is the norm. Three young talls, Levi, TDK transitioning, perhaps Kennedy and Kemp for the future, make the forward line a competitive spot for talls. Hold a few more marks and he has a spot there. But, I see him as a genuine midfielder, cameos, including the Fyfe blanket suggest he "belongs". An improving tank and maturity will see him press for minutes. Will they be available?

FISHER - One of the bigger conundrums. Can't help but feel he got a little ahead of himself after "starring" in AFLX pre season last year. Only small, but those dancing feet, good vision and disposal give him claims for midfield time. Stated to be concentrating on forward craft pre season, but will be champing at the bit for midfield time. Has real claims.

CUNINGHAM - Most of us see him as a forward staple, and likely that is where he will spend the majority of his time. However is also a capable and explosive midfielder and the club has always given him inside minutes when he has been fit. In the mix, with likely cameos mixed with working up the ground from forward line.

PETREVSKI-SETON - More than capable in the middle and will only improve with maturity. However, seems set to play off half back utilising his skills, smarts and dual sided disposal to set up our forays forward. Lock in to the backline.

GIBBONS - Can't help but love the little pest. Under rated by many, but may still struggle for opportunity at the coal face. I can't help but think he may be as effective as Murphy at the stoppages, but will he get the opportunity? Plenty of competition for outside mid/high half forward spots. If we don't use him in the 22, almost certain to look for (and get) opportunity elsewhere.

O'BRIEN - One of my young favourites. Disposal is a weapon, but can be inconsistent. Needs to tighten up and back his own game, as guilty of being a little conservative at times (Bolton legacy) Feel he is capable in the middle, but wing is his spot. Can see him off there for a decade, but has to earn it first.

NEWNES - Experienced, professional, talented, it would be easy to pick and forget on wing or half back. Could easily play 22 games or could play almost none. Which path is Teaguey and co going to take? Thinking the praccy matches might seal it one way or the other. Can play in guts, but best outside.

COTTRELL - Up against it to force his way in to a talent laden team, but with pace, endurance and quality disposal certainly has his claims. More capable inside than some realise, but his value would be as a linking, running wing or rebounding from half back. Would not totally surprise if he was given an opportunity to audition as a small forward in the twos as well. I love what he offers, but needs opportunity and must form an irrefutable case.

MARTIN - Primarily a forward or outside type, who can both rebound from defence and contribute inside. Very hard to see him utilised for more than cameos in the midfield given our list and the value of his skill set forward.

DOCHERTY - Co skipper and backline general. Was being groomed for midfield role before injury, but difficult to see that happening now with our bevy of developing young stars. Certain to be a defensive staple for the remainder of his career.

LANG - Has struggled with injury and while it may just be an appearance, intensity often seems lacking. Again appears on "light duties" at the start of preseason, needs a huge year to remain on the list for mine. Will be up against it to get senior opportunity with a healthy list.

POLSON - Loved his draft video and happy to see him get opportunity. However, unlike some on here, I see his issues as more than positional. Lost me when viewing Qld camp last year. Mildly slippery conditions and he consistently spilled basic passes through his fingers. Literally under 12's stuff, team mates and coaches stressing thumb position. Not talking one or two misses, double figures under no pressure. I am off him.

KEMP - ACL gives us the "luxury" of time to incorporate him in to the rotations, if in fact that is where he ends up long term. Prodigious talent likely to have a variety of roles in his formative years. Unlikely to be thought of as a first team midfielder in his first two years.

PHILP - The "bolter" was well known to me and plenty of others before the draft. Is a footballer first and his speed is a weapon. It is difficult to see him being groomed as a centre square mid in the short term. While a "contested beast" lightning quick and has spend time forward to advantage. Expect to see his role rotated in the twos exploring prospects all over the ground. Plenty of upside.

RAMSAY - Prolific when moved to the engine room and has great skills. Has history off half back and on the wing, but excelled in the guts. Like the other later picks we selected, has skills that could also transfer forward. Reckon SOS and co have had more of a throw at the stumps regarding forwards than many realise.

HONEY - While well regarded by a few posters here, I see him as a forward or bust type. Skilled, but inconsistent, a speculative profile we were happy to run with. Not writing him off, but late/rookie was his spot. Ball is in his court, but I can't see a midfielder there.

Pretty much spot on!!

 

[WFGodot]

I agree with most RE the top rated mids. I’m looking forward to seeing a few of the less fancied options surprise us. Dow, Cunningham etc. my biggest concern is how we manage the ruck position when the tractor is in for repairs. Hopefully TDK takes his chance when given.

 

[Dominator68]

Kruse, Cripps, Ed and Setters start in the guts. Fisher needs space, too small to play in there. Every team needs a zippy receiver so that is his go.

Walsh on a wing where he can blow everyone up who is not a cyborg like him up.

Happy for JSOS to go in there as occasional stopper when required.

Dow is magoos at this stage for mine.

 

[branedotorg]

Will dig out the numbers for who attended centre bounces, but for now, players that had centre clearances

The mainstay mids and of course the rotations

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders

2019 Carlton Total Centre Clearances Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Removing the ruckmen, 19 different players had centre clearances

BTW, Tigers had similar

Do you know if that number only includes the starting four or if player in off the edge of the square count?

 

[Jabba73]

You know what surprised me in regards to the way clubs approached the new 6-6-6 format this year?

I would have thought the players on the wing would have sprinted in, to be in position to take second possession, but in the most the wingers just jogged into the mix and didn't get into the best spots to become immediately active.

Might almost be guarding space so the ball can’t get out the back of them and be run into forward 50 unopposed