Academy 2020 Father/Son, NGA and Academy Prospects - The Compromised Draft

[andleanback]

The thing is, it has absolutely nothing to do with where a player wants to play (as this is not the intention of the academies), and everything to do with ensuring they get enough opportunity. If Blakey didn't want to play with North, he could just not nominate as a father/son. When your dad was an extremely successful player and arguably an all-time great, the opportunity argument makes a lot less sense

What has his dad being successful got to do with his oppurtunity? As he lived in sydney the swans academy is the only current viable option as an elite pathway towards the afl. Should he have just played in one of the sub standard competitions up there and not received any elite coaching or played against a higher level of players.

It's referring to retention and attraction of talent as one of the reasons for academies existing, which is something smaller clubs have a harder time with than clubs like Richmond, Essendon, etc. Obviously 2019 bucked the trend a bit though (Hill + Jones to Saints, Bruce + Keath to Dogs) but the clubs do still tend to overpay a bit.

Like I said, there will never be a perfect system since if we only gave academies to smaller clubs, this isn't fair on the bigger clubs since they'd be given no concessions. And it's not like they haven't been without their struggles themselves (Richmond for the better part of 30 years prior to 2017, Pies only winning two flags from 1959 onwards, Geelong's 44 year drought).

If it were up to me, academies would be scrapped altogether

So if the Northern academies were scrapped where would all the potential elite junior talent go/play? As ive previously mentioned itll be 10-15 years minimum before there is enough in place for them to set up an elite junior system which is a seperate entity from the afl clubs. The massive influx of junior numbers in South east QLD since Gold coast's inception is exactly what the afl wanted and in a generation or so it'll mean by law of averages more potentially elite kids will be playing afl over rugby.

 

[Kwality]

The thing is, it has absolutely nothing to do with where a player wants to play (as this is not the intention of the academies), and everything to do with ensuring they get enough opportunity. If Blakey didn't want to play with North, he could just not nominate as a father/son. When your dad was an extremely successful player and arguably an all-time great, the opportunity argument makes a lot less sense

Good to see you accept the advantages the traditional States have ...

 

[briztoon]

What has his dad being successful got to do with his oppurtunity? As he lived in sydney the swans academy is the only current viable option as an elite pathway towards the afl. Should he have just played in one of the sub standard competitions up there and not received any elite coaching or played against a higher level of players.


So if the Northern academies were scrapped where would all the potential elite junior talent go/play? As ive previously mentioned itll be 10-15 years minimum before there is enough in place for them to set up an elite junior system which is a seperate entity from the afl clubs. The massive influx of junior numbers in South east QLD since Gold coast's inception is exactly what the afl wanted and in a generation or so it'll mean by law of averages more potentially elite kids will be playing afl over rugby.

It’s possible that will happen on the Gold Coast. There’s definitely more of an AFL culture down there, than there is in Brisbane or the rest of the State. The main problem is that few have a connection to the Suns.

This is changing now with the Suns academy, and many of the GC schools setting up their AFL “academies”.

It’s less likely for AFL to supplant Rugby League in Brisbane. It would take two generations of long term Lions success and for an ongoing cash injection in to the QAFL to grow the game to that extent.

 

[philthy05]

the contentious part for me is ngas should be players that werent headed towards playing afl before being identified by clubs. Players like Mcinnes, Lachy Johnson, Downie etc wouldve already being playing junior football regardless of whether they are nga or not. Players who have being brought up in australia/ had a single parent born overseas should not classify.

That more comes down to the issue that father/son prospects have absolutely no business being in academies in the first place. When Nick Blakey's dad has played the 12th most games of all time, why on Earth would he need to be in an academy?

The academies as a very concept are broken, and there will never be a truly "fair" system in place. Non-AFL states need them to help with attraction of talent/retention, but then denying similar access to clubs from AFL states, particularly the smaller clubs (Freo, Port, North, Saints, Demons, Dogs) is unfair.

At the very least, they need to assess players on an individual basis. Nick Blakey and Lachlan Johnson are two players who should never have been eligible for an academy. James Borlase, while not being F/S eligible, should also not be in an academy for very obvious reasons

as I’ve banged on about several times, but the son of a 4 time port premiership captain is on adelaides nga list because he was born overseas (and spent all of a matter of months there lol) is a ******* joke.

* the ngas

 

[philthy05]

Because Blakey was living in Sydney so of course he was going to be involved in their academy as there is no other elite talent pathway towards the afl in the state. Although him being eligible to Sydney is a different issue, just because a player is f/s eligible doesn’t mean they always want to play for that club.

No other elite pathway?

What, nsw doesn’t have juniors? Nsw doesn’t have the neafl?


Crows and port propped up the sanfl, and had a massive hand in every gun Sa junior making their way onto afl lists, many of which became legends at clubs like Collingwood and freo afterward.

I reject the idea that the only way to develop talent in a state is to give a team priority access to them.

either accept you have to foster talent, and they might go interstate, while you’ve grown your pool of players, and accept the draft system we have, or burn the whole system altogether

i

 

[andleanback]

No other elite pathway?

What, nsw doesn’t have juniors? Nsw doesn’t have the neafl?


Crows and port propped up the sanfl, and had a massive hand in every gun Sa junior making their way onto afl lists, many of which became legends at clubs like Collingwood and freo afterward.

I reject the idea that the only way to develop talent in a state is to give a team priority access to them.

either accept you have to foster talent, and they might go interstate, while you’ve grown your pool of players, and accept the draft system we have, or burn the whole system altogether

i

That’s a big reach to say port and Adelaide have had a massive hand in every kid to ever come out of south Australia. Their respective sanfl club + the state hub would have the biggest hand in every kids development. Stop being so small minded, sa is a footy state through and through. The afl eventually want a steady stream of talent coming out of the northern states yearly because in 10-15 years time afl will have a bigger pull to and more kids will he choosing to play afl from a young age. Then there will be enough talent around and they’ll introduce their own underage competition/ elite pathways.

Currently Neafl clubs don’t have the coaches/ resources to successfully develop talent and there isn’t enough kids at a high level which would provide an adequate competition in comparison to Vic, wa Etc. You can’t compare the situation to south Australia as it is totally different circumstances. Why would northern afl clubs spend all their time and resources on juniors if they won’t be able to reap any of the benefits. Don’t be small minded it’s good for the sport that finally afl is making inroads to the northern market.

 

[briztoon]

No other elite pathway?

What, nsw doesn’t have juniors? Nsw doesn’t have the neafl?


Crows and port propped up the sanfl, and had a massive hand in every gun Sa junior making their way onto afl lists, many of which became legends at clubs like Collingwood and freo afterward.

I reject the idea that the only way to develop talent in a state is to give a team priority access to them.

either accept you have to foster talent, and they might go interstate, while you’ve grown your pool of players, and accept the draft system we have, or burn the whole system altogether

i

Last I looked, there wasn’t a NEAFL club north of Aspley (north side of Brisbane).

QLD is a freaken big state, for 3 part time clubs to develop juniors.

When you know what you’re talking about, come back and provide an educated opinion.

 

[philthy05]

That’s a big reach to say port and Adelaide have had a massive hand in every kid to ever come out of south Australia. Their respective sanfl club + the state hub would have the biggest hand in every kids development. Stop being so small minded, sa is a footy state through and through. The afl eventually want a steady stream of talent coming out of the northern states yearly because in 10-15 years time afl will have a bigger pull to and more kids will he choosing to play afl from a young age. Then there will be enough talent around and they’ll introduce their own underage competition/ elite pathways.

Currently Neafl clubs don’t have the coaches/ resources to successfully develop talent and there isn’t enough kids at a high level which would provide an adequate competition in comparison to Vic, wa Etc. You can’t compare the situation to south Australia as it is totally different circumstances. Why would northern afl clubs spend all their time and resources on juniors if they won’t be able to reap any of the benefits. Don’t be small minded it’s good for the sport that finally afl is making inroads to the northern market.

the logic of why should northern afl clubs invest in the region unless they have priority access to the kids is shortsighted, moronic and wrong.

if you accept the problem is that you need to promote the game at grass roots and foster the develop of upcoming kids then the solution is to develop the grassroots and foster the upcoming kids.

An academy where a team like Sydney is looking to identify and target and develop the top 1% is only one way to do it and I think it’s the trickle down economics version. Sure it will grow the game by a couple of players, but it doesn’t place an onus on Sydney to develop grass roots. It purely becomes a secondary goal. Their goal under that system is to find and develop a nick blakey, not grow the game in their backyard.

also how the * do you propose that the neafl doesn’t have the coaches or resources. Afl Football has been in Sydney for decades now. If the neafl is a failure then dozens of people should be sacked and questions answered. If the neafl can’t be run competently to survive with council grants and government grants then the Sydney teams and the afl need to contribute more to it. How much money do you think the sanfl has? Can you name the sanfls league sponsor? I can’t. Do they have one? I guess they do but stuffed if I know who. The sanfls not exactly flush, most teams are barely afloat with pokie money, council or government grants, and port and crows Have been their biggest contributors the past 20 years.


So yes there is teams who need to develop their region. We all agree on that.

but I reject the idea that academies are the best most effective way to do it.

the uneven mess of different sets of rules and inconsistent *up we have now with academies and ngas is surely not the best we can do.

 

[philthy05]

Last I looked, there wasn’t a NEAFL club north of Aspley (north side of Brisbane).

QLD is a freaken big state, for 3 part time clubs to develop juniors.

When you know what you’re talking about, come back and provide an educated opinion.

that’s awesome

Please point out how Brisbane having an academy changes that core problem you’ve just pointed out?

are there more clubs there now? More coaches spread out across Queensland? Is there now a club presence with facilities and coaches north of Aspley thanks to the Brisbane academy?

is the point of academies to address any of those issues?

 

[philthy05]

If you’re going to argue that you don’t have enough coaches and facilities, trying to use that to support the academy model your argument is very easy to pull down.

if you need more coaches and facilities, come up with a plan that is to provide funding to get more coaches and facilities.

that is not the goal of the academies model.

if your argument for academies was that these teams need more elite local players to balance their interstate player heavy list that would be a very strong argument. The academies model would be the most efficient way to do that in the short term.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

An academy where a team like Sydney is looking to identify and target and develop the top 1% is only one way to do it and I think it’s the trickle down economics version.

That's a great way of putting it.

 

[briztoon]

that’s awesome

Please point out how Brisbane having an academy changes that core problem you’ve just pointed out?

are there more clubs there now? More coaches spread out across Queensland? Is there now a club presence with facilities and coaches north of Aspley thanks to the Brisbane academy?

is the point of academies to address any of those issues?

Both Brisbane and Gold Coast have several academy hubs, where we have regional coaches outside of the direct influence of our clubs.

There are no NEAFL clubs anywhere close to these hubs. Heck, there aren’t even QAFL clubs near most of the hubs.

I have a gut feeling you actually have no idea what the game looks up here, or how our clubs run our academies.

 

[Mego Red]

as I’ve banged on about several times, but the son of a 4 time port premiership captain is on adelaides nga list because he was born overseas (and spent all of a matter of months there lol) is a ******* joke.

fu** the ngas

Wasn't he a captain of the SANFL team?

That he played well in the lower leagues doesn't mean anything.

If he was a premiership captain for the Power, you wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Mego Red]

That’s a big reach to say port and Adelaide have had a massive hand in every kid to ever come out of south Australia. Their respective sanfl club + the state hub would have the biggest hand in every kids development. Stop being so small minded, sa is a footy state through and through. The afl eventually want a steady stream of talent coming out of the northern states yearly because in 10-15 years time afl will have a bigger pull to and more kids will he choosing to play afl from a young age. Then there will be enough talent around and they’ll introduce their own underage competition/ elite pathways.

Currently Neafl clubs don’t have the coaches/ resources to successfully develop talent and there isn’t enough kids at a high level which would provide an adequate competition in comparison to Vic, wa Etc. You can’t compare the situation to south Australia as it is totally different circumstances. Why would northern afl clubs spend all their time and resources on juniors if they won’t be able to reap any of the benefits. Don’t be small minded it’s good for the sport that finally afl is making inroads to the northern market.

If it wasn't for the Crows, the SANFL would have folded. They have been a massive positive financial influence for the local league since they were founded. They're essential for supporting the SA talent pathway.

The Power have mostly been a financial drain, but at least they keep a bit of local interest up.

 

[kreglze]

The biggest issue facing the Queensland and would seperate it from SA as example is the sheer size of the state. The distance between Brisbane and Cairns (2 cities as an example) is vast that elite junior coaches can't just drive 3 or 4 hours from Brisbane to see junior games, since our zonal area is pretty much the GC and Northern QLD (and Darwin for a couple of years).

Suns have only recently been able to afford to have a coach and development person up in the North end of QLD recently, we are lucky we have been able to relocate a handful of promising kids to Palm Beach Currumbin high school, but I imagine ideally we would want more.

Fact is the quality of teams juniors face in local footy in Nth QLD is pretty poor in comparison to VIC or SA, and if you were to pool all the talented kids, there wouldn't be anyone for them to play, outside of either stomping the rest of the kids, or put them in there with sub standard adult competition.

The academy's aren't perfect and I look forward to the day QLD doesn't need them anymore, but until then there doesn't seem to be a lot of other options.

 

[philthy05]

Both Brisbane and Gold Coast have several academy hubs, where we have regional coaches outside of the direct influence of our clubs.

There are no NEAFL clubs anywhere close to these hubs. Heck, there aren’t even QAFL clubs near most of the hubs.

I have a gut feeling you actually have no idea what the game looks up here, or how our clubs run our academies.

so if you’ve suggested the problem is a lack of coaches and facilities outside of the capital cities, and suggest that teams setting up hubs in these areas has solved it, how is this model dependant on academies?

The answer is of course it’s not.

if you suggest there is no incentive to do it without academies, and you may be partially right (at least in short term) than you have to acknowledge that academies are not the solution, just a bribe or incentive.

 

[philthy05]

Wasn't he a captain of the SANFL team?

That he played well in the lower leagues doesn't mean anything.

If he was a premiership captain for the Power, you wouldn't have this problem.

If a port player doesn’t count cause he didn’t play in the afl era then you have to apply that to the entire competition. But of course that’s not how it is done. Port existed before they entered the afl. It’s not hard to fathom but a point that crows fans always get stuck on, I would suggest because of their own history or lack of.

If it wasn't for the Crows, the SANFL would have folded. They have been a massive positive financial influence for the local league since they were founded. They're essential for supporting the SA talent pathway.

The Power have mostly been a financial drain, but at least they keep a bit of local interest up.

financial drain pull the other one. The sanfl used to take our entire earnings and leak it back to us, and if we dared to ask for a few dollars extra of our own cash to buy some new piece of equipment the campaigners jumped up and down.

port fought hard to get us and the crows out from that horrific deal. We ******* bought our license from the afl, who gave it to the sanfl, who have sold to us again. It’s bloody criminal. Drain my ass.

 

[Drewie11]

Hopefully this guy has a bit of a quiet year so we can get him quite cheap

 

[briztoon]

so if you’ve suggested the problem is a lack of coaches and facilities outside of the capital cities, and suggest that teams setting up hubs in these areas has solved it, how is this model dependant on academies?

The answer is of course it’s not.

if you suggest there is no incentive to do it without academies, and you may be partially right (at least in short term) than you have to acknowledge that academies are not the solution, just a bribe or incentive.

Gees you like putting words in people’s mouths, and not actually addressing their comments.

I might get around to replying when I get home from work tonight. But probably not.

 

[philthy05]

Gees you like putting words in people’s mouths, and not actually addressing their comments.

I might get around to replying when I get home from work tonight. But probably not.

You said there was remote places with no clubs or coaches near them, and said the teams set up hubs in those places.

it’s literally impossible that I’ve put words in your mouth when they’re exactly what you said.

If you’re talking about the second part I’m addressing the notion that has been put forth a million times by every single pro-academies supporter that without academies there is no reason for teams to put the effort into developing players in the region.

 

[briztoon]

You said there was remote places with no clubs or coaches near them, and said the teams set up hubs in those places.

it’s literally impossible that I’ve put words in your mouth when they’re exactly what you said.

If you’re talking about the second part I’m addressing the notion that has been put forth a million times by every single pro-academies supporter that without academies there is no reason for teams to put the effort into developing players in the region.

Yeah, think you’re confusing me with other posters.

 

[philthy05]

Yeah, think you’re confusing me with other posters.

Both Brisbane and Gold Coast have several academy hubs, where we have regional coaches outside of the direct influence of our clubs.

There are no NEAFL clubs anywhere close to these hubs. Heck, there aren’t even QAFL clubs near most of the hubs.

 

[briztoon]

philthy05
Dude, that’s not even remotely the same as what you typed.

Like I said, I don’t believe you have the faintest idea of what the state of football is like up here.

 

[philthy05]

philthy05

Dude, that’s not even remotely the same as what you typed.

Like I said, I don’t believe you have the faintest idea of what the state of football is like up here.

you literally say right there that there isn’t clubs and only teams hubs there. It’s black and white.

There are no NEAFL clubs anywhere close to these hubs. Heck, there aren’t even QAFL clubs near most of the hubs.

and that is clearly what I address here

You said there was remote places with no clubs or coaches near them, and said the teams set up hubs in those places.

And here

so if you’ve suggested the problem is a lack of coaches and facilities outside of the capital cities, and suggest that teams setting up hubs in these areas has solved it, how is this model dependant on academies?

 

[briztoon]

you literally say right there that there isn’t clubs and only teams hubs there. It’s black and white.




and that is clearly what I address here


And here

I didn’t say there are no clubs. I said there are no NEAFL or QAFL clubs, which are the two highest levels of amateur competitions up here.

Obviously there are some level of amateur junior or senior clubs.

We don’t have a state wide competition like the SANFL or WAFL. Nor is AFL played in every public and private school. Certainly boys from the bush can’t get a scholarship to a private school to play footy.

Before GC and the Lions started setting up regional hubs, there was no structured pathway for elite kids to progress beyond their local clubs. Certainly not outside of Brisbane or the Gold Coast.


AFLQ isn’t flushed with funds, so never had the resources to set up a proper pathway for elite kids outside the major metropolitan areas either.

As I’ve repeatedly said, you have no idea what the situation up here was like before the academies or now.