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Richmond could add one more in 2020 or 2021, scarily similar to the cats stint from 2004-2011.
Rate the best performing clubs of the AFL era (1990-). Looking beyond number of premierships and at overall performance
- Thread starter Danger2Jenkins
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- May 3, 2007
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i disagree about the demons being totally hopeless in the AFL era.My team is s**t. I have no gratification rights in this thread
Hawks
Brisbane
Geelong
Pies
North
West Coast were mostly drug cheating in this era*
*fu** oath they were.
Demons recovered after being bad in the 1st half of the 1980s.
Ron Barrassi coached the club from 1981-1995 and slowly rebuilt the demons. Then the demons made finals from 1987-1991. So the 87 prelim and 88 Grand final was in the VFL era.
Demons Made finals in 1990-91. Then made a prelim in 1994. Then had that Neale Daniher era from 1998-2007. Under that era, they made finals in 1998, 2000, 2002 then 2004-6. Demons made a prelim in 1998 and a grand final in 2000. then made a prelim in 2018.
- Sep 6, 2011
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Relax guys. The OP is a Bay 13 troll who would rather more H&A wins over flags.
- May 3, 2007
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Out side of the Grand finals and Grand finals wins...... Finals and Finals wins makes things interesting too..
you think of Richmond of 1990-2012 and they only made finals in 2 of those years: 1995 and 2001 and both times they made prelims. Then you think of all those times they finished 9th when the final 8 system was introduced in 1994: 1994, 1996, 2000, 2006 and 2008.
You turn all those 9th placed spots to 8th placed spots, even if they get pumped by 60-80 points in each of those elim finals, it would look a little bit better in the history books. That meant they would of had a finals run in 1994-6 and 2000-2001.
Then you had the 2013-15 period where they should of won a final or 2.
Then that Period from 2017-19 with those 2 flags jumped them up the success ladder.
You gotta think, whats better? If you had 3 options of playing 3 finals matches in a 1 or 2 or 3 year period.
Option 1: Finish top 4 and play 3 finals: lose in the 1st week, win the home semi and lose the away prelim.
Option 2: Play 3 finals in 2 years. Play in 2 elim finals in which you lose one one year then the other season you make another elim final and win it and lose the semi next week.
Option 3: Play 3 elim finals finish 7th or 8th and lose all 3 elimination finals.
Interesting choices and theres a positive and negative in all 3 options.
Its not bad making a prelim, dont get me wrong.
Option 2 isnt that bad. Especially if your a team that has spent the last 3-6 years out side the finals spots.
It beats getting 9th for 2-3 years in a row.
Danger2Jenkins
Knight of the Teutonic Order
- Thread starter
- #80
Hawks finished 15th,15th, 13th in the mid 90's and their 3peat list was rubbish compared to Geelong and other great teams. That team couldn't beat Geelong for 5 years they're not in the argument let alone better performing.
This thread is for best performing club not most premierships. A premiership is one match out of 25 or so that year.
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Shane Heard
Brownlow Medallist
- Mar 11, 2018
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Sums it all up perfectly..with clear cut clarity.
Shane Heard
Brownlow Medallist
- Mar 11, 2018
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You’re wrong. Premierships are all that matters. Winning on grand final day is all that counts ..when all is said and done.
I think you're analysing it too much, for me it's flags. I'd have to be pushed real hard to rate GF appearances as a measure of success.
So as for your options theory really for mine they're only marginally better than 9th only because of finals experience. Not something I'd measure as any sort of success. It's still somewhere in 2nd place behind 1st, so may as well be moot.
Call me a hard marker, probably am because I'm always disappointed in my own club. Forever teasin and rarely pleasin.
INB4 "At least you make finals regularly". Sometimes I'd rather my club either win flags or not challenge at all, the constant false hope gets a bit old.
Every coach, every club in the league, in fact every sporting club on the planet would swap a better regular-season winning percentage for a for a higher number of championship victories....
That is an extreme view - and there are exceptions to the rule
Your club Collingwood - i dont know how you can be critical of them in 2018 - beat Richmond ( who were the clear no 1 team all year - and who had the 20 plus wins in a row at the MCG ) easily and that final in Perth against the Eagles ( which i thought was a super game - and the best game of the finals standard wise easily - and then in the GF lead by 2 goals in the last qtr - a ruck infringement free kick leads to a crucial goal to the Eagles- talk about a pivotal moment - and you lose by 5 pts
I dont know how you can be critical of Collingwood in 2018 -if you take a balanced view ( that rules out 90% of Big Footy posters ) - its just a pity for Collingwood supporters they didnt win it - because it would have been their 2nd greatest ever premiership outside of 1930 - where they completed the 4 in a row
So little Richmond input in this thread, wonder why?
Makes a nice change.
Makes a nice change.
JerryRapidRiser
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- Oct 27, 2019
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- #87
Not sure how you go past Hawthorn- as it is, all that matters at the end of the day is premierships. Outside of autistic kids who have a penchant for footy stats, few confidently remember who the loser of every grand final was.
West Coast are the obvious 'alternate' as they have done a wonderful job of spreading their success around (but so did Hawthorn).
Geelong and Brisbane get to be 'in the conversation' though for 5 minutes.
Everyone else gets to count their finals apps and do complex maths based on giving prelim more weight than semis more weight than ef. But all you are doing is a tonne of maths for trying to get top 10. Who cares?
Richmond may well find themselves in that conversation if they win again but for the same reasons as Geelong and Brisbane they will fall out again quickly - unlike Hawks and Eagles their success has been concentrated.
They would stay in the conversation far longer if the question was 'which GF team was the best of the AFL era ' so prematurely offended Tigers fans can chill.
No, the answer is very clear.
As an aside, I actually think finals are a s**t thing and that first past the post IS the best way to adjudicate the best team. But it isn't like that so why bother counting H&A wins?
West Coast are the obvious 'alternate' as they have done a wonderful job of spreading their success around (but so did Hawthorn).
Geelong and Brisbane get to be 'in the conversation' though for 5 minutes.
Everyone else gets to count their finals apps and do complex maths based on giving prelim more weight than semis more weight than ef. But all you are doing is a tonne of maths for trying to get top 10. Who cares?
Richmond may well find themselves in that conversation if they win again but for the same reasons as Geelong and Brisbane they will fall out again quickly - unlike Hawks and Eagles their success has been concentrated.
They would stay in the conversation far longer if the question was 'which GF team was the best of the AFL era ' so prematurely offended Tigers fans can chill.
No, the answer is very clear.
As an aside, I actually think finals are a s**t thing and that first past the post IS the best way to adjudicate the best team. But it isn't like that so why bother counting H&A wins?
- Jun 18, 2016
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I'll have a crack at that
1990 - Essendon
1991 - West Coast
1992 - Geelong
1993 - Carlton
1994 - Geelong
1995 - Geelong
1996 - Sydney
1997 - St Kilda
1998 - North Melbourne
1999 - Melbourne
2000 - Carlton
2001 - Essendon
2002 - Collingwood
2003 - Collingwood
2004 - Brisbane
2005 - West Coast
2006 - Sydney
2007 - Port Adelaide
2008 - Geelong
2009 - St Kilda
2010 - St Kilda
2011 - Collingwood
2012 - Hawthorn
2013 - Fremantle
2014 - Sydney
2015 - West Coast
2016 - Sydney
2017 - Adelaide
2018 - Collingwood
2019 - GWS
How much do you reward consistency though as Brisbane were great for a period in the early 2000's but then were awful for a decade. How much does the decade of awfulness dilute the 3 premierships?
Swap 99 and 00
- May 3, 2007
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I am sort of gutted as a neutral the Swans didnt win a 3rd Flag in this AFL era.
you can make a case for them winning the 2006 or 2016 flags.
I would of been curious how Swans would of fared being compared to the likes of the teams you quoted. Take away west coast, all those other clubs quoted won 3 flags in a short 3-5 year period.
I have a gut feeling Richmond will join that list in 2020 or 2021.
- May 3, 2007
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Compare your team to richmond from 1990-99.
Your team Made finals each year and won 2 flags from 3 grand finals. Richmond only had played finals in 1995 and that was a prelim. Look back at richmonds history from 1990 onwards and they finished 9th in 1994, 1996, 2000, 2006 and 2008. turn all those 9th spots into 8th placed finishes and would of made the history books slightly better for them. they would of had a finals run from 1994-6 and 2000-2001.
As the topic is stated, its from 1990 onwards.
With any system like that you are rewarding mediocrity of performance when it matters most. If you are going to do that we may as well give it to Geelong and Collingwood and be done with it.
I would suggest in fact we get this right, because my god are there some misguided people posting on this thread. The main determinant should be percentage of grand finals won versus grand finals played in the epoch. Then if there remains any dispute, you go the tiebreaker of percentage from scores for and against in grand finals. Then if there is another tiebreaker required move to something slightly less meaningful like how many premierships you have won. Then only after all of this is done, apply the final acid test, you are automatically relegated below a team if you have lost more finals than them in the era. This must be right, because I seem to recall earlier this decade hearing over and over that performance in finals was all that mattered.
Something along those lines should give a much better indication of the actual best performing clubs of the AFL era.
I would be intrigued to know the results, and I wonder if my team Richmond will remain as high as 9th or 10th under this much fairer assessment, or whether we might slip down a few rungs....
- Banned
- #94
This is a silly way to measure what team is the most successful.
By your standard, Richmond with 2 flags and and 6 other appearances in finals is greater than teams like Adelaide and Essendon or Collingwood who all have two flags, additional grand final appearances and many top 8 finishes. That is a ludicrous belief to hold.
As an eagle I love that we have 4 flags, but I am also extremely proud as a fan of our achievement of most appearances in finals and most finals played. Does that make up for the extra flag hawthorn has? No it doesn’t. If Brisbane win next year and you say that Brisbane is greater because they have a 4/5 record compared to our 4/7 record in grand finals you will be, and should be laughed at.
In order to get a proper ranking, we should allocate points per achievement for eg:
Premiership: 5 points
Grand final: 2 point
Minor premiership: 1 point
Making finals: 0.5 points
Then we could have a quantitative measure for success to determine a ranking.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
They were indeed served a flag on a platter. Sadly for them whilst the AFL was the Maitre d’ it was Richmond FC providing the table service and we even crooned a nice rendition of Oh We’re From....especially for them.
Dan, in hindsight, to ensure other posters understood your intention, you probably should of named this thread:
"Rate the best clubs of the AFL era (1990-) who's home ground is at Kardina Park?"
OR perhaps
"Rate the best clubs of the AFL era (1990-) who's had the biggest Grand Final choke?"
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So let me get this right then Jennifer...you want teams to be rewarded in your system for losing grand finals? I am sorry, we cannot abide that, reward for losing. Thank god my club doesn’t operate that way. That is not how you determine the greatest, that is just how you determine the greatest loser. This thread purports to be about the best performing club/s of the era, not the best performing losers of the era on the biggest stage.
If you wanted to celebrate losses on the biggest stage, why support the Eagles, why not go straight for the experts - Collingwood?
I think you will find if you follow my method truly, you will arrive at the greatest performing team of the AFL era.
You spoke too soon Farangutan. As Dimma would say, this thread is like one of our Grand Finals, we took a while to get going then whack whack whack whack whack whack.
the other Simmo
Rookie
Factoring in overall travel and "away" GF at the MCG for WCE, Cats and Brisbane, it's interesting that the top 4 of the list are Hawks, WC, Cats, Bris.
I thought you d!ckheads were 3 hours behind, not 3 years. Get with the program Simmplo, history didn’t stop after 2016, it was just getting started...
