Discussion Random Discussion

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

So what’s the consensus on here - does climate change have anything to do with these fires or not?

Possibly in some small part, but its not because of Australia's pissant 1% worldwide contribution to CO2 emissions or because of ScoMo. That is just complete political BS used by idiots and they are purposely doing it full well knowing what they are doing...or maybe they are just that stupid.

More homes and lives were lost in the bushfires 1983 and 2009...so far.

Bushfires are a natural fact of life in Aus. They are not new. The current bushfires are very bad but we will have better and worse seasons going forward for the next 100 years. They need to put more money into the country fire authorities and put an end to this greenie lunacy madness of not allowing proper land management in the bushfire off season. The aboriginals did it properly and were managing this threat for thousands of years.

The current conditions on the ground were just a massive tinderbox waiting to happen. It was a perfect storm that started unfortunately. The bushfires will not go away, they never have or will. Said it before too, there are way too many living in areas where they shouldn't be like these huge bushfire prone areas. The bushfires will get them eventually.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Possibly in some small part, but its not because of Australia's pissant 1% worldwide contribution to CO2 emissions or because of ScoMo. That is just complete political BS used by idiots and they are purposely doing it full well knowing what they are doing...or maybe they are just that stupid.

More homes and lives were lost in the bushfires 1983 and 2009...so far.

Bushfires are a natural fact of life in Aus. They are not new. The current bushfires are very bad but we will have better and worse seasons going forward for the next 100 years. They need to put more money into the country fire authorities and put an end to this greenie lunacy madness of not allowing proper land management in the bushfire off season. The aboriginals did it properly and were managing this threat for thousands of years.

The current conditions on the ground were just a massive tinderbox waiting to happen. It was a perfect storm that started unfortunately. The bushfires will not go away, they never have or will. Said it before too, there are way too many living in areas where they shouldn't be like these huge bushfire prone areas. The bushfires will get them eventually.

 

[Moral Decay]

It’s pretty sad and misdirected imo, people are understandably at breaking point but I’d say never go full bogan it doesn’t play well to a large portion of the population.

I don't know if your close to the fires, or part of them, or well away from them, I can tell you as someone that is very close and has been in them before that everyone here is stretched, the stress levels are enormous and they seemingly endless, very simple things like the mail, bred, milk, water, petrol, power, phones, a day to day what's happening, tools that worked a week ago just stop working, and every day you know that you'll have to make a life or death decision sometime, but no idea when, there's one road in and one road out, it's been going for 5 weeks and there's no respite in sight.

So here's a decision that has to be made, evacuate or not? First I have to have somewhere to go, can I afford it, if I go then the majority of houses that burn down are from spot fires that if there was someone there it's easy to put out, but a fire front is indefensible, if I go I will lose everything, if I go can I get back, in 2003 we sent our old Mum to Melbourne, she was there for 2 months and came back and had another month with the fires, then there's the animals, then there's the history. Then there's me, 54 in poor health but no children or partner, I've been a broken man 3 times already and if I lose everything I'm not sure I've got the courage to start from nothing again. But if I go I'll survive, maybe, because the fires still won't be out, fear and anger and pride and ego, holding on keeping calm, trying to make good decisions every day, and every day the information we get is wrong.

Everyone of those bogans is me and I am them, my stress is theirs according to where we live, how many children, how old etcetera, every choice is different. I don't give a flying FCUK about a woman going the full bogan, good on her, and if it doesn't play well to a large portion of the population, wait until your house is burnt down, wait until you've done this 4 times and then make a call because right now she's in the middle of it and if people don't like her going the full bogan they can get FCUKED.

 

[Saints43]

How about a temporary levy, call it the disaster relief levy/climate change fund or similar.

Use the cash to purchase equipment, employ some of the soon to be out of work loggers to cut firebreaks etc. Set the levy at 1% and quarantine half of it for R and D into clean energy etc.

Great idea. ScoMo could contract a mate who used to bring his bins in to run in it and we could find out twelve months later old cobber has received $200M to have a 457 via worker dig him a pond.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

View attachment 800904

A simplistic meme or quote does not solve the issue or ever present threat in Australia every summer.

 

[Joffaboy]

A simplistic meme or quote does not solve the issue or ever present threat in Australia every summer.

So a former Fire and Rescue officer knows less than the likes of you?

This is the issue with people like you.

Goodbye on ignore

 

[Drake Huggins]

I don't know if your close to the fires, or part of them, or well away from them, I can tell you as someone that is very close and has been in them before that everyone here is stretched, the stress levels are enormous and they seemingly endless, very simple things like the mail, bred, milk, water, petrol, power, phones, a day to day what's happening, tools that worked a week ago just stop working, and every day you know that you'll have to make a life or death decision sometime, but no idea when, there's one road in and one road out, it's been going for 5 weeks and there's no respite in sight.

So here's a decision that has to be made, evacuate or not? First I have to have somewhere to go, can I afford it, if I go then the majority of houses that burn down are from spot fires that if there was someone there it's easy to put out, but a fire front is indefensible, if I go I will lose everything, if I go can I get back, in 2003 we sent our old Mum to Melbourne, she was there for 2 months and came back and had another month with the fires, then there's the animals, then there's the history. Then there's me, 54 in poor health but no children or partner, I've been a broken man 3 times already and if I lose everything I'm not sure I've got the courage to start from nothing again. But if I go I'll survive, maybe, because the fires still won't be out, fear and anger and pride and ego, holding on keeping calm, trying to make good decisions every day, and every day the information we get is wrong.

Everyone of those bogans is me and I am them, my stress is theirs according to where we live, how many children, how old etcetera, every choice is different. I don't give a flying FCUK about a woman going the full bogan, good on her, and if it doesn't play well to a large portion of the population, wait until your house is burnt down, wait until you've done this 4 times and then make a call because right now she's in the middle of it and if people don't like her going the full bogan they can get FCUKED.

It has been reported that 80% are due to lightning strikes or deliberately lit. How does that fit the hysterical narrative of the left and greens? I feel fir the victims. String up the arsonists. String up the leftard greens who worked against controlled burns. Farkwits who are safe in their inner city caves, while people burn. You must be proud all you leftards.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

So a former Fire and Rescue officer knows less than the likes of you?

This is the issue with people like you.

Goodbye on ignore

I'm not saying I know more than him.

How does a one line sentence or quote say anything?
What is the source of this picture?
Where is the full context?
What are his political leanings?
It's very simplistic to use someone's words and a photo of them like this. Its straight out of the Greta Thunberger school of propaganda.

I could easily bring up a dozen articles on country firies upset that they can't manage land properly in the bushfire off season completely contradicting that simple sentence.

 

[CursingFijian]

Possibly in some small part, but its not because of Australia's pissant 1% worldwide contribution to CO2 emissions or because of ScoMo. That is just complete political BS used by idiots and they are purposely doing it full well knowing what they are doing...or maybe they are just that stupid.

More homes and lives were lost in the bushfires 1983 and 2009...so far.

Bushfires are a natural fact of life in Aus. They are not new. The current bushfires are very bad but we will have better and worse seasons going forward for the next 100 years. They need to put more money into the country fire authorities and put an end to this greenie lunacy madness of not allowing proper land management in the bushfire off season. The aboriginals did it properly and were managing this threat for thousands of years.

The current conditions on the ground were just a massive tinderbox waiting to happen. It was a perfect storm that started unfortunately. The bushfires will not go away, they never have or will. Said it before too, there are way too many living in areas where they shouldn't be like these huge bushfire prone areas. The bushfires will get them eventually.

I don’t think anybody is really blaming ScoMo for causing the fires. I think the anger comes from communities not feeling supported by consecutive governments who have taken a climate denier stance, and none more so than our current evangelical prime minister. He’s just copping it because he’s at the pointy end of the stick. The fires are probably saving his political bacon to be honest because nobody wants the job while beds are burning.

 

[CursingFijian]

I don't know if your close to the fires, or part of them, or well away from them, I can tell you as someone that is very close and has been in them before that everyone here is stretched, the stress levels are enormous and they seemingly endless, very simple things like the mail, bred, milk, water, petrol, power, phones, a day to day what's happening, tools that worked a week ago just stop working, and every day you know that you'll have to make a life or death decision sometime, but no idea when, there's one road in and one road out, it's been going for 5 weeks and there's no respite in sight.

So here's a decision that has to be made, evacuate or not? First I have to have somewhere to go, can I afford it, if I go then the majority of houses that burn down are from spot fires that if there was someone there it's easy to put out, but a fire front is indefensible, if I go I will lose everything, if I go can I get back, in 2003 we sent our old Mum to Melbourne, she was there for 2 months and came back and had another month with the fires, then there's the animals, then there's the history. Then there's me, 54 in poor health but no children or partner, I've been a broken man 3 times already and if I lose everything I'm not sure I've got the courage to start from nothing again. But if I go I'll survive, maybe, because the fires still won't be out, fear and anger and pride and ego, holding on keeping calm, trying to make good decisions every day, and every day the information we get is wrong.

Everyone of those bogans is me and I am them, my stress is theirs according to where we live, how many children, how old etcetera, every choice is different. I don't give a flying FCUK about a woman going the full bogan, good on her, and if it doesn't play well to a large portion of the population, wait until your house is burnt down, wait until you've done this 4 times and then make a call because right now she's in the middle of it and if people don't like her going the full bogan they can get FCUKED.

Great post, I wish I could share it with all of Australia. Stay strong mate you will come out the other side.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don't know if your close to the fires, or part of them, or well away from them, I can tell you as someone that is very close and has been in them before that everyone here is stretched, the stress levels are enormous and they seemingly endless, very simple things like the mail, bred, milk, water, petrol, power, phones, a day to day what's happening, tools that worked a week ago just stop working, and every day you know that you'll have to make a life or death decision sometime, but no idea when, there's one road in and one road out, it's been going for 5 weeks and there's no respite in sight.

So here's a decision that has to be made, evacuate or not? First I have to have somewhere to go, can I afford it, if I go then the majority of houses that burn down are from spot fires that if there was someone there it's easy to put out, but a fire front is indefensible, if I go I will lose everything, if I go can I get back, in 2003 we sent our old Mum to Melbourne, she was there for 2 months and came back and had another month with the fires, then there's the animals, then there's the history. Then there's me, 54 in poor health but no children or partner, I've been a broken man 3 times already and if I lose everything I'm not sure I've got the courage to start from nothing again. But if I go I'll survive, maybe, because the fires still won't be out, fear and anger and pride and ego, holding on keeping calm, trying to make good decisions every day, and every day the information we get is wrong.

Everyone of those bogans is me and I am them, my stress is theirs according to where we live, how many children, how old etcetera, every choice is different. I don't give a flying FCUK about a woman going the full bogan, good on her, and if it doesn't play well to a large portion of the population, wait until your house is burnt down, wait until you've done this 4 times and then make a call because right now she's in the middle of it and if people don't like her going the full bogan they can get FCUKED.

I’m a city boy and apart from a couple of holiday brushes with minor bushfires I’ve never lived through that, I have however been flooded out.

That was bad enough but a minor inconvenience compared to a major fire. Your description of the experience of living under the threat of fire is both eloquent, moving and informative. None of that changes my opinion of what I saw happening with the PM. I had already assumed people were pushed to their limit and was responding to a comment that it was good to see someone going full bogan.

To me full bogan just describes anyone behaving poorly, people screamed when the PM was on holidays now they scream that he shouldn’t be in town for a photo op etc, as gringo said it’s a bit of a no win situation. People want to understand, show empathy and feel like they can do something to help. Sitting hundreds of kilometres or more away and putting up with a bit of smoke haze it’s more of an intellectual exercise about preparation, climate change etc. That’s the audience watching the PM getting abused, I personally don’t think you should be filming people under that sort of stress but unfortunately nothing seems off limits now.

Remembering as you’ve pointed out that we’ve lived through this before and had a royal commission conducted into the last catastrophic fires which questioned among other things should people rebuild, where etc. In that context to hear the PM getting told to **** off and I think the woman yells every time we have a fire or flood we get nothing is just counter productive.

So the photo opp for the PM went badly wrong and all we saw was an angry abusive crowd hound him out of town. If someone like you had delivered your account to the PM imo that’s a powerful thing that people pay attention to, not hearing the PM cop a send off.

So once again understandable but counter productive imo.

 

[Saints43]

It has been reported that 80% are due to lightning strikes or deliberately lit. How does that fit the hysterical narrative of the left and greens? I feel fir the victims. String up the arsonists. String up the leftard greens who worked against controlled burns. Farkwits who are safe in their inner city caves, while people burn. You must be proud all you leftards.

Factcheck: Is there really a green conspiracy to stop bushfire hazard reduction?

Firefighters are trying to contain dozens of fires across two states, but a familiar blame game has already begun

www.theguardian.com

 

[Yawkey way]

"The PM is coming to town. I'm heading along to tell him what I think. **** it, and I'm taking a goat on a leash so he'll really get the message".

I’ll admit it’s a surreal picture and at some point as a labour voter I’ll probably have a good laugh at it.

 

[Saints43]

I’m a city boy and apart from a couple of holiday brushes with minor bushfires I’ve never lived through that, I have however been flooded out.

That was bad enough but a minor inconvenience compared to a major fire. Your description of the experience of living under the threat of fire is both eloquent, moving and informative. None of that changes my opinion of what I saw happening with the PM. I had already assumed people were pushed to their limit and was responding to a comment that it was good to see someone going full bogan.

To me full bogan just describes anyone behaving poorly, people screamed when the PM was on holidays now they scream that he shouldn’t be in town for a photo op etc, as gringo said it’s a bit of a no win situation. People want to understand, show empathy and feel like they can do something to help. Sitting hundreds of kilometres or more away and putting up with a bit of smoke haze it’s more of an intellectual exercise about preparation, climate change etc. That’s the audience watching the PM getting abused, I personally don’t think you should be filming people under that sort of stress but unfortunately nothing seems off limits now.

Remembering as you’ve pointed out that we’ve lived through this before and had a royal commission conducted into the last catastrophic fires which questioned among other things should people rebuild, where etc. In that context to hear the PM getting told to **** off and I think the woman yells ever time we have a fire or flood we get nothing is just counter productive.

So the photo opp for the PM went badly wrong and all we saw was an angry abusive crowd hound him out of town. If someone like you had delivered your account to the PM imo that’s a powerful thing that people pay attention to, not hearing the PM cop a send off.

So once again understandable but counter productive imo.

Isn't the problem that he was there for a photo opp and the residents were probably hoping that the Prime Minister of Australia being there might lead to some meaningful assistance?
Dumb bogans...

 

[Yawkey way]

At least we can go up to our PM and tell him to stick it. Try doing that in the US.

People yell crap at the president all the time and actually hound politicians out of restaurants.

My point was that I think it’s counter productive, probably puts more people off side.

 

[Yawkey way]

Isn't the problem that he was there for a photo opp and the residents were probably hoping that the Prime Minister of Australia being there might lead to some meaningful assistance?
Dumb bogans...

Clearly.

 

[Yawkey way]

Great idea. ScoMo could contract a mate who used to bring his bins in to run in it and we could find out twelve months later old cobber has received $200M to have a 457 via worker dig him a pond.

So do nothing in case the money collected is wasted ?.

Why not put a decent bipartisan choice in place to head up the fund?.

 

[CaptainRisky]

 

[CaptainRisky]

If its like this in Melb , imagine how bad it is for the people at the fires

 

[Joffaboy]

Bay is just behind the housing commission flats.

Usually visibility 40klms +

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

I don’t think anybody is really blaming ScoMo for causing the fires. I think the anger comes from communities not feeling supported by consecutive governments who have taken a climate denier stance, and none more so than our current evangelical prime minister. He’s just copping it because he’s at the pointy end of the stick. The fires are probably saving his political bacon to be honest because nobody wants the job while beds are burning.

So are they also still angry with Bob Hawke 1983 Ash Wednesday and Julia Gillard 2009 Black Saturday?
Both non conservative governments.

ScoMo copped it whilst he was away and now he's copping when he is at the front. He than cops when he meets the Aussie cricket side for an hour on New Years Day. Where is he meant to be?

 

[gringo2011]

"Just anecdotally they seem to be getting more frequent."

Its not just anecdotally. All the research shows that the FFDI ( Forest Fire Danger Index) is steadily increasing across Australia and has been doing so for the last 50 years since they've used the Index. The FFDI assesses the chances of a fire starting, then looks at how fast it might spread, its intensity etc and takes into account things like temp, humidity, wind speed and drought situations.

The increase has a twofold impact - increase in the frequency and intensity of bushfires and a reduction in the "window" to carry out "controlled" burning.

The increased rate of spread is the most serious problem for authorities because it just makes forward planning a nightmare especially in relation to public safety. It used to be that you'd use 5 to 6 KM per hour as a base rate for a bad fire and plan and inform people around that.

Black Friday blew that thinking out the window because the saw rates of spread in Victoria in excess of 20KM per hour. At that pace you simply can't identify the fire front and then effectively communicate a emergency warning to towns in its path. Hence the horrendous death toll and the jump to now when we get seemingly very early evacuation notices.

The other thing about the FFDI is that 50 and above was rare and actually "extreme" - now unfortunately its routinely occurring every year.

The fire break thing is definitely true. My nephew is in the DSE working out of Sale andhe had a huge tree fall on him and crush both his legs. The were felling trees by hand because the were really concerned about an area near property and there was no way they could get a burn happening because of conditions over winter. Our place we agreed to let them burn breaks for the state Forrest in a few years ago, they still haven’t had the right conditions for that.

 

[gringo2011]

So are they also still angry with Bob Hawke 1983 Ash Wednesday and Julia Gillard 2009 Black Saturday?
Both non conservative governments.

ScoMo copped whilst he was away and now he's copping when he is at the front. He than cops when he meets the Aussie cricket side for an hour on New Years Day. Where is he meant to be?

He’s actually good at stage management old Scomo. He plays the Aussie every bloke .... he’s used his marketing background to work out an angle. I think pissing off overseas when he’s spent as many on holiday as in parliament has made people question his authenticity. Once you get on the nose it can take a bit of work to get yourself back.

Emergencies need statesmen to look in control, he looks like he’s still doing Aussie every bloke instead. It would be fine if you want a mate to help move a fridge with you, not a great thing when you need leadership.

You do know politicians don’t even take it as seriously as you. My wife’s husband is a state labor politician. He hated Shorten but hangs with Liberals in his spare time. They don’t give a s**t about sides.

 

[Kildonan]

It has been reported that 80% are due to lightning strikes or deliberately lit. How does that fit the hysterical narrative of the left and greens? I feel fir the victims. String up the arsonists. String up the leftard greens who worked against controlled burns. Farkwits who are safe in their inner city caves, while people burn. You must be proud all you leftards.

Source ABC study:
Of the fires with a known cause, 47 per cent were due to accidental causes, due to such things as cigarettes, escaped burn-offs and campfires, or sparks from equipment or powerlines.

Forty per cent were deliberately lit and 13 per cent were caused by lightning.

The cause of 31 per cent of fires was undetermined.

You are so sure that it was gay married union thugs who vote Green and have a university degree that prevented burn offs and not the prevailing weather conditions that made it too risky.

 

[Yawkey way]

He’s actually good at stage management old Scomo. He plays the Aussie every bloke .... he’s used his marketing background to work out an angle. I think pissing off overseas when he’s spent as many on holiday as in parliament has made people question his authenticity. Once you get on the nose it can take a bit of work to get yourself back.

Emergencies need statesmen to look in control, he looks like he’s still doing Aussie every bloke instead. It would be fine if you want a mate to help move a fridge with you, not a great thing when you need leadership.

You do know politicians don’t even take it as seriously as you. My wife’s husband is a state labor politician. He hated Shorten but hangs with Liberals in his spare time. They don’t give a s**t about sides.

Andrews has done well imo.