2019 Financial Results

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Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
& Melbourne clubs ?

Dont forget the WA clubs pump money into WA footy.

Dont forget the WA clubs have stadium deals not available to the Victorian clubs. The AFL pays for Victorian footy out of its own money because most of its money - including almost a 1/3rd of football revenue at the MCG - goes to its coffers, not the clubs. The AFL also shoots several million a year at WA.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Tigers would never seek to play interstate mate. Post whatever emojis you want, some clubs are backed into a corner here.

But they were happy enough for the money? Take the money & run?

My argument is the H&A concept is long gone, needs to be consigned to the rubbish bin, to recycle it it will need virgin material (original thought).
The AFL contracts with the stadiums ensure its problematic, see Adelaide Oval/Port/China.

Roll eyes was my only response to your post, yes its not simple.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
But they were happy enough for the money? Take the money & run?

My argument is the H&A concept is long gone, needs to be consigned to the rubbish bin, to recycle it it will need virgin material (original thought).
The AFL contracts with the stadiums ensure its problematic, see Adelaide Oval/Port/China.

Roll eyes was my only response to your post, yes its not simple.

My argument is that its not, club supporters still fervently believe in it. Clubs wont play interstate unless they have no other choice. Richmond did it when they needed money and stopped as soon as they didnt, they'll never do it again. Carlton did it once in 2009 and wont again. Collingwood wont. Essendon wont. Geelong wont.

St Kilda, Dogs, North, Dees need to at the moment. Hawthorn doesnt, and might not after their current deal ends.
 

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Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Dont forget the WA clubs have stadium deals not available to the Victorian clubs. The AFL pays for Victorian footy out of its own money because most of its money - including almost a 1/3rd of football revenue at the MCG - goes to its coffers, not the clubs. The AFL also shoots several million a year at WA.

I've often pointed out the organisation of WA footy is different to other States. It was forced to learn from the failures of the 80s, the introduction of the Commission structure learnt from the Vic experience, its resisted the restructure SA style.
The stadium deals nationally have been a learning experience BUT the AFL agreed to strengthen the influence of the Cricket Club, will they ever learn?
Yes, the AFL puts money into WA footy, & the return is a surplus of talent for the player pool, ROI?
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
My argument is that its not, club supporters still fervently believe in it. Clubs wont play interstate unless they have no other choice. Richmond did it when they needed money and stopped as soon as they didnt, they'll never do it again. Carlton did it once in 2009 and wont again. Collingwood wont. Essendon wont. Geelong wont.

St Kilda, Dogs, North, Dees need to at the moment. Hawthorn doesnt, and might not after their current deal ends.

Wow, its does not function as its name suggests, we still have people who believe its a draw.
A change to the FIX, move games out of Melbourne, its par for the course.
Whats new is its WA & SA, nothing else.
Vic clubs sell 17 game memberships, the only clubs with that luxury & the H&A concept is the first line of defence of that inequity: home? away? Pull the other one.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
I've often pointed out the organisation of WA footy is different to other States. It was forced to learn from the failures of the 80s, the introduction of the Commission structure learnt from the Vic experience, its resisted the restructure SA style.
The stadium deals nationally have been a learning experience BUT the AFL agreed to strengthen the influence of the Cricket Club, will they ever learn?
Yes, the AFL puts money into WA footy, & the return is a surplus of talent for the player pool, ROI?

The WAFL was the only body in 80s to require a government bailout. This ended with the WAFC having some critical advantages - a peppercorn rent and a government review into football in the state that led to its formation, as well as government support for its stadium and operations.

Victoria had a government hellbent on legally forcing the VFL to play at its chosen stadium whether it wanted to or not. What the AFL has chosen to do since then has been to leverage as much as they can from that contract they were effectively forced into by Cain, while shoring up its own position.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Wow, its does not function as its name suggests, we still have people who believe its a draw.
A change to the FIX, move games out of Melbourne, its par for the course.

par for what course?

Whats new is its WA & SA, nothing else.

And to accommodate that other places with no clubs will miss out. Not likely on the AFLs watch. Playing more games in WA and SA is a pipedream.

Vic clubs sell 17 game memberships, the only clubs with that luxury & the H&A concept is the first line of defence of that inequity: home? away? Pull the other one.

You live in whatever fantasy land you like. The point is Victorian clubs wont play elsewhere if they dont have to, and right now, most of them dont and the league wont make them. The bigger clubs simply wont, and the smaller clubs are on millions from the league in compo and dont need to further isolate their home base. And all clubs are entitled to 11 home games, which means due to the structure of stadiums in Victoria where 2 stadiums have 9 teams, such 17 games memberships are possible.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
The WAFL was the only body in 80s to require a government bailout. This ended with the WAFC having some critical advantages - a peppercorn rent and a government review into football in the state that led to its formation, as well as government support for its stadium and operations.

Victoria had a government hellbent on legally forcing the VFL to play at its chosen stadium whether it wanted to or not. What the AFL has chosen to do since then has been to leverage as much as they can from that contract they were effectively forced into by Cain, while shoring up its own position.

So we agree on the history, its going forward that needs a review & the H&A concept ... say no more.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
I'm not sure what you mean here in reference to my two team state post? There are 10 clubs in VIC so each club would get less slice of the pie in their state market.

The States are so different.
Too many, more footy than demand? Its why the FIXture moves games out of Melbourne.
Imagine the Vic clubs pumping money into the VFL as the WA clubs do for WA footy (not just the WAFL).
As The Wookie has pointed out, the role of the State Govt is very different.
 
May 13, 2012
15,809
5,960
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
To be fair that, that was a defacto final (round 22, 1 v 2) and was what would have been a GF preview.

Thats like saying Richmond v Brisbane (77,000 last year) or Hawthorn v Sydney (72,000 in 2014) would sell out ANZAC Day on the back of a single outstanding attendance

To be fair, it was 20 years ago, memberships for both clubs have grown and we are talking about an important marquee game/event, so of course they would surpass that number today.
 
Jul 2, 2010
37,959
36,138
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Imagine the Vic clubs pumping money into the VFL as the WA clubs do for WA footy (not just the WAFL).

Ok cool. Imagine if the AFL did a deal with Optus Stadium and the Government which took 30% of the revenue away from the clubs and spent it on WA football instead, or gave it to the WAFC to do so. Except instead of limiting it to one state it also props up football in 4 other states too.

Victoria is the only state where the AFL receives direct income from gameday returns, signage and pourage, and ALL finals revenue. In return for that funding the AFL funds the TAC Cup, the VFL, the VWFL and all of AFL Victoria ops.
 

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Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Ok cool. Imagine if the AFL did a deal with Optus Stadium and the Government which took 30% of the revenue away from the clubs and spent it on WA football instead, or gave it to the WAFC to do so. Except instead of limiting it to one state it also props up football in 4 other states too.

Victoria is the only state where the AFL receives direct income from gameday returns, signage and pourage, and ALL finals revenue. In return for that funding the AFL funds the TAC Cup, the VFL, the VWFL and all of AFL Victoria ops.

My comment was in a context & you've chosen to ignore that.
Clearly we both understand the different arrangements in different States, including the Governments & how we got to where we are today.

Why the AFL keep being played off the break by consecutive State Governments amazes me. Gil & Richard Goyder are just the latest:
Waverley Park (then VFL Park) was first conceived in 1959 .... The original plans were for a stadium catering for up to 157,000 patrons, which would have made it one of the biggest stadiums in the world.
The VFL reportedly lobbied the state government to construct a train connection to the stadium, but that never occurred.
 

Tiger Soze

3121
Nov 17, 2019
212
462
AFL Club
Richmond
Vic clubs sell 17 game memberships, the only clubs with that luxury & the H&A concept is the first line of defence of that inequity: home? away? Pull the other one.
What the home and away means to this 17 games membership holder. Personally I have never been to an away game as my membership entitlements for an away game does not come close to home game entitlements, i.e. we have reserved seats in the same area and access to a couple of bars etc with pregame and half time entertainment which involves our club. An away game gives you entry to the game and the opportunity to purchase a reserved seat in the AFL area and that’s it. Gee we rarely even go to Marvel stadium for our home game as it’s just not the same (and usually against an interstater), so zero chance of going anywhere else you suggest. Anyway with memberships on the increase across the competition they must be doing something right which means it will not change.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
What the home and away means to this 17 games membership holder. Personally I have never been to an away game as my membership entitlements for an away game does not come close to home game entitlements, i.e. we have reserved seats in the same area and access to a couple of bars etc with pregame and half time entertainment which involves our club. An away game gives you entry to the game and the opportunity to purchase a reserved seat in the AFL area and that’s it. Gee we rarely even go to Marvel stadium for our home game as it’s just not the same (and usually against an interstater), so zero chance of going anywhere else you suggest. Anyway with memberships on the increase across the competition they must be doing something right which means it will not change.

So you choose not to use a 17 game package, choose home game only. You've got that option.

I understand not all 17 game options are the same, perhaps others have a better deal than the Tiges.

You mention the AFL area, is that AFL Members?

My suggestion of double headers is more aimed at the lower drawing clubs that battle to get grounds 50-60% full.
 

Tiger Soze

3121
Nov 17, 2019
212
462
AFL Club
Richmond
So you choose not to use a 17 game package, choose home game only. You've got that option.

I understand not all 17 game options are the same, perhaps others have a better deal than the Tiges.

You mention the AFL area, is that AFL Members?

My suggestion of double headers is more aimed at the lower drawing clubs that battle to get grounds 50-60% full.
I think all coterie memberships are 17 games, been in that category long before they evolved to hand out 17 games as part of it.

The only team that has it better are the Pies, they did a deal with the MCC /AFL when they left Victoria Park which gives them the Ponsford stand for their away games. So they in effect can offer a 17 home game experience membership.
Thankfully they are in their last term of that generous deal.

Yes the AFL members area.

Your suggestion could make it problematic across so many facets of the game day experience, predominantly from the coterie groups perspective
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
across so many fascists of the game day

;)
I'll go with factors eh :thumbsu:

Accept that my suggestion that H&A died way back, & addressing it wont be easy for the entrenched AFL hierachy.
Its only purpose relates to revenue imho.
When North & the Bullies play at Marvel, they should pull 40k+, it'd be a better spectacle for all concerned but doesnt happen, membership restrictions stop it happening.

The G is harder because the clubs have max 60k seating & I've not seen what each club is allocated - do the Tiges have trouble accomodating seated 11 game members?

There appears to be a groundswell against the fix in the FIXture, & I cant see it going away soon - H&A is at the centre of the FIXture.
 

Tiger Soze

3121
Nov 17, 2019
212
462
AFL Club
Richmond
;)
I'll go with factors eh :thumbsu:

Accept that my suggestion that H&A died way back, & addressing it wont be easy for the entrenched AFL hierachy.
Its only purpose relates to revenue imho.
When North & the Bullies play at Marvel, they should pull 40k+, it'd be a better spectacle for all concerned but doesnt happen, membership restrictions stop it happening.

The G is harder because the clubs have max 60k seating & I've not seen what each club is allocated - do the Tiges have trouble accomodating seated 11 game members?

There appears to be a groundswell against the fix in the FIXture, & I cant see it going away soon - H&A is at the centre of the FIXture.
Facets 😂

I’d be interested in your solution to your perceived fixture issue.

Of course it’s about revenue as that’s what provides the growth in the game and the community programs the clubs provide.

Has the competition ever been in better shape, the answer is clearly no based on game attendance and club memberships. You know the old saying, if it ain’t broke!!

How does membership restrict not filling up Marvel stadium?

No I have never heard of tiger members or even supporters missing out on a home game. The only time it becomes an issue is when we play Collingwood and all our members who are normally located at the Ponsford end have to vacate that area as I previously mentioned.

Where would one find this groundswell of support for the end of the current fixture, I haven’t seen any evidence of that over here.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1
Where would one find this groundswell of support for the end of the current fixture, I haven’t seen any evidence of that over here.

The desire for fairness in the fixture, reducing the games so each team plays each other only once, rejected as unacceptable on revenue grounds is an example of fans searching for fairness. I'm saying H &A is at the core of the problem.
We were told 6-6-6 would be adopted, it wasnt. Again fairness.

Of course the desire for change will always be rejected by some who may feel entitled to retain the status quo. living in Melbourne I find it discussed in one from or another regularly.
 

Tiger Soze

3121
Nov 17, 2019
212
462
AFL Club
Richmond
The desire for fairness in the fixture, reducing the games so each team plays each other only once, rejected as unacceptable on revenue grounds is an example of fans searching for fairness. I'm saying H &A is at the core of the problem.
We were told 6-6-6 would be adopted, it wasnt. Again fairness.

Of course the desire for change will always be rejected by some who may feel entitled to retain the status quo. living in Melbourne I find it discussed in one from or another regularly.
If I felt the wrong teams were making the finals I might have a different opinion, but I haven’t seen any evidence of that. In fact in recent years I’d say at least 2 teams have been just making up the numbers in the 8.
People will always find something to complain about regardless, Geelong is a prime example.
All those years we were in the wilderness I never had or heard a conversation about how unfair the fixture was.
Whoever suggested reducing the amount of games to play each other once didn’t think of the commercial reality in doing so.
 

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