Test cricket is dying, let's help save it

[LukeParkerno1]

That's it? You should write the ICC a letter and let them know it's that simple. Those idiots seem to think it's a bit more involved than that.

What with most cricket nations losing a million dollars per test hosted and dwindling test crowds.

Get better (look at the English pitches as they are spot on- enough to get runs and you get movement if you put it in the right area) pitches. That will bring back the crowds, not the stupid fascination of reducing a day from test cricket.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

I completely disagree with tiers of Test cricket. All Test nations should be in the WTC proper, and a properly defined pathway (starting with bringing back the Intercontibental Cup in place with set requirements for new nations to reach test level). Test cricket is the peak of the sport, you can't have two levels. Its either Test cricket, which means top level, or it isn't. For me, that's a core cricket philosophy. The annexing of some teams from thew WTC is disgrace that hopefully will be rectified in the next iteration (but I fully expect India and Australia to block any such idea).

Plus, the smaller nations need games against the larger ones (not that some of those nations are getting those games now). West Indies, for example, struggle to make money against New Zealand and Ireland; they can against India and England. The big nations need to suck less out of the game if it is to thrive in more places, and in some cases survive. But trhat won't happen, and without it no amount of tinmkering with the rules will aid the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, West Indies and Sri Lanka remaining Test nations when all the money (and their survival as professional sport) may be in the T20 anti-cricket.

Not long ago the Windies used to get the plumbest tours around. Once T20 cricket took off that's all their top players wanted to play and thats exactly what they did. So why should we care about them playing top teams if their own players have historically not given a toss?

 

[big_e]

5 days stay the same.

My only change would be the toss. The opposition gets to choose. Would stop teams creating roads first up which make the toss the deciding factor.

That's it.

That isn't changing the fabric of the sport, and it keeps tests being the pinacle, where pitches break up on the 4th and 5th days.

The toss is being reintroduced in county cricket next year. Average scores and the number of draws both increased.

https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/uncontested-toss-scrapped-for-2020-county-championship

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The toss is being reintroduced in county cricket next year. Average scores and the number of draws both increased.

https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/uncontested-toss-scrapped-for-2020-county-championship

Disappointing. Thought that was a good initiative.

 

[PhatBoy]

While you clutch at straws admirably. The statistics do not lie. In the last 17 years the Windies have played 52 test series winning 11 of those. The crucial figure here is the amount of series they have won against a top side - 2. Against the worst English touring side for over a decade last year at home and 12 years ago in England by sheer nude luck.

The other 9 have come against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and Afghanistan with one against NZ at home.

This is pretty damning. No way are they in the top tier.

Without trying to get too personal, are you thick?

That’s exactly the point. They’ve improved in the last 3 years. That’s unarguable.
Where does that improvement lead to if they’re excluded from playing better sides? Do you think Bangladesh got to their moderately competitive state now in tests and Odis by playing Zimbabwe repeatedly?
Why the hell would anyone seeking to improve the overall quality of test cricket try and do so by preventing those sides from playing the stronger nations?
Do you think South Africa, who at one stage one just 2 out of 17 series between 1935 and 1965, built towards being arguably the worlds best side by 1970 by just playing NZ, India, West Indies and Pakistan? No, they did it by playing almost exclusively against England and Australia.

Did the 90s Australians get to where they got by playing Sri Lanka, NZ, Zimbabwe etc? They got there by playing the West Indies seemingly every second year and building a unit that could handle anything.

Did SA become the best performed side between 08-2018 by beating up on minnows? No, they built towards that and during that time by consistently playing and beating/drawing with the best teams in the world away from home.

Everything you’re suggesting to somehow IMPROVE test cricket flies in the face of historical fact and trend.

The greatest dynasty the game has seen was fostered by players who had been battled hardened both by losing to the best teams in the world, and via their own players playing in one of the best domestic competitions in the world.

 

[PhatBoy]

Not long ago the Windies used to get the plumbest tours around. Once T20 cricket took off that's all their top players wanted to play and thats exactly what they did. So why should we care about them playing top teams if their own players have historically not given a toss?

Proof positive that you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

Research Dave Cameron and Wavell Hinds if you want to know why the better West Indies players didn’t want to play international cricket (at any rate there are few who you would consider top test players who were ever in this bracket anyway - Gayle has been their third best batsman this century and he managed over 100 tests. Bravo Sr is the only obvious one who should have played a lot more tests)

 

[PhatBoy]

The toss is being reintroduced in county cricket next year. Average scores and the number of draws both increased.

https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/uncontested-toss-scrapped-for-2020-county-championship

Not really sure that’s the sort of data they need to be looking at to assess its effectiveness.

Draws increasing may be a symptom of visiting teams coping better with away conditions, and higher volume of runs would mean possibly that visiting teams are just batting better because they have a choice of when to do it

 

[juss]

I know it sounds stupid and anti patriotic and all that having someone like a neser or Tremain etc playing for the enemy. But imagine the battles out in the middle with blokes who actually know how to get it done on these pitches. Same as us getting some Indian gun bats to smoke Ashwin etc over there on those turning pitches

I would probably stop watching international cricket if it got to the point where all countries were just "naturalising" a bunch of players to strengthen their team. Few things would make it more of a joke than seeing a West Indies cricket team with a bunch of Aussies, Englishmen and South Africans who have an address in the Caribbean.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Without trying to get too personal, are you thick?

That’s exactly the point. They’ve improved in the last 3 years. That’s unarguable.
Where does that improvement lead to if they’re excluded from playing better sides? Do you think Bangladesh got to their moderately competitive state now in tests and Odis by playing Zimbabwe repeatedly?
Why the hell would anyone seeking to improve the overall quality of test cricket try and do so by preventing those sides from playing the stronger nations?
Do you think South Africa, who at one stage one just 2 out of 17 series between 1935 and 1965, built towards being arguably the worlds best side by 1970 by just playing NZ, India, West Indies and Pakistan? No, they did it by playing almost exclusively against England and Australia.

Did the 90s Australians get to where they got by playing Sri Lanka, NZ, Zimbabwe etc? They got there by playing the West Indies seemingly every second year and building a unit that could handle anything.

Did SA become the best performed side between 08-2018 by beating up on minnows? No, they built towards that and during that time by consistently playing and beating/drawing with the best teams in the world away from home.

Everything you’re suggesting to somehow IMPROVE test cricket flies in the face of historical fact and trend.

The greatest dynasty the game has seen was fostered by players who had been battled hardened both by losing to the best teams in the world, and via their own players playing in one of the best domestic competitions in the world.

Play the ball please not the man.

My point is that clearly the West Indies have been given countless opportunities and squandered all of them in the last two decades.

It's great that they're valiantly beating Afghanistan away these days but they belong in the second tier. Hopefully you can handle that without getting too angry

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

I would probably stop watching international cricket if it got to the point where all countries were just "naturalising" a bunch of players to strengthen their team. Few things would make it more of a joke than seeing a West Indies cricket team with a bunch of Aussies, Englishmen and South Africans who have an address in the Caribbean.

It would be the only way the windies could compete

 

[big_e]

Not really sure that’s the sort of data they need to be looking at to assess its effectiveness.

Draws increasing may be a symptom of visiting teams coping better with away conditions, and higher volume of runs would mean possibly that visiting teams are just batting better because they have a choice of when to do it

Going only what the articale says, but it suggested that counties were juicing up the pitches knowing their own players could handle it and oppositions couldn't.

It would be too easy for home boards to dictate terms. Knowing, say, Pakistan would be facing Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins on day one, every pitch would be as green as they could make it. And we'd go to Bangladesh and it would turn sideways on day one. I can't see how it makes it fairer for away teams.

 

[PhatBoy]

Play the ball please not the man.

My point is that clearly the West Indies have been given countless opportunities and squandered all of them in the last two decades.

It's great that they're valiantly beating Afghanistan away these days but they belong in the second tier. Hopefully you can handle that without getting too angry

They’re valiantly competing basically anywhere they play save for Australia and India.
Yes I go for the West Indies but they’re just an example. You could mount the same argument for literally any of the teams you would be excluding.

What right has anyone got to say ‘sorry Bangladesh, you drew with Australia last test series you played but we aren’t going to let you play them again because it won’t be competitive enough.’

Truth be told, there’s some irony in the fact that if you remove Australia’s most notorious home track bully from that series, Bangladesh probably actually win it.

‘Sorry Pakistan, we know you’ve been way too good for Australia every time you meet in a country that isn’t even your home one, but you can’t play against them anymore because you aren’t good enough.’

‘Sorry NZ, you’ve been statistically basically as good as India for the last 2 years but we are going to bar you from playing them.’

 

[PhatBoy]

Going only what the articale says, but it suggested that counties were juicing up the pitches knowing their own players could handle it and oppositions couldn't.

It would be too easy for home boards to dictate terms. Knowing, say, Pakistan would be facing Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins on day one, every pitch would be as green as they could make it. And we'd go to Bangladesh and it would turn sideways on day one. I can't see how it makes it fairer for away teams.

Well Australia would be stupid to juice up a pitch because they have an attack that can still thrive on a relatively dead one - dead Australian pitches are still bouncier than everywhere bar SA - but they know that unless the opposition is a fast-tracked Rabada/Ngidi/Nortje (fast tracked meaning the last two have improved on their raw current potential) the opposition can’t do the same to them.
Produce a green pitch however, and any of SA, India, NZ, England, or yes, dare I say it the West Indies with Roach, Gabriel and Holder, could roll Australia as easy as anything.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

They’re valiantly competing basically anywhere they play save for Australia and India.
Yes I go for the West Indies but they’re just an example. You could mount the same argument for literally any of the teams you would be excluding.

What right has anyone got to say ‘sorry Bangladesh, you drew with Australia last test series you played but we aren’t going to let you play them again because it won’t be competitive enough.’

Truth be told, there’s some irony in the fact that if you remove Australia’s most notorious home track bully from that series, Bangladesh probably actually win it.

‘Sorry Pakistan, we know you’ve been way too good for Australia every time you meet in a country that isn’t even your home one, but you can’t play against them anymore because you aren’t good enough.’

‘Sorry NZ, you’ve been statistically basically as good as India for the last 2 years but we are going to bar you from playing them.’

You've confirmed your own bias and written another essay. I stand by my comments

 

[PhatBoy]

You've confirmed your own bias and written another essay. I stand by my comments

You’re welcome to stand by them.

At least try and back them up with something other than ‘because it’s what I think.’

Incidentally it is endemic in this forum to discredit literally anything you read simply because of the allegiance of whoever wrote it.

Someone cites 3-4 examples that support their argument? Doesn’t count because I go for one of those teams.

So does that mean because you support australia I can just say your Big 3 plus one more idea is biased and therefore discredited?

 

[Topkent]

They’re valiantly competing basically anywhere they play save for Australia and India.
Yes I go for the West Indies but they’re just an example. You could mount the same argument for literally any of the teams you would be excluding.

What right has anyone got to say ‘sorry Bangladesh, you drew with Australia last test series you played but we aren’t going to let you play them again because it won’t be competitive enough.’

Truth be told, there’s some irony in the fact that if you remove Australia’s most notorious home track bully from that series, Bangladesh probably actually win it.

‘Sorry Pakistan, we know you’ve been way too good for Australia every time you meet in a country that isn’t even your home one, but you can’t play against them anymore because you aren’t good enough.’

‘Sorry NZ, you’ve been statistically basically as good as India for the last 2 years but we are going to bar you from playing them.’

You really don't understand the promotion and relegation system do you. If the Windies are so good they can get promoted from the 2nd tier then no one can stop them. If they can't then stop wasting everyone's time. It's a complete waste of money and time to play those nations in Australia as they will never ever beat a good Australian team here. 2 teams should be promoted and relegated from each group every year like a season.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

You’re welcome to stand by them.

At least try and back them up with something other than ‘because it’s what I think.’

Incidentally it is endemic in this forum to discredit literally anything you read simply because of the allegiance of whoever wrote it.

Someone cites 3-4 examples that support their argument? Doesn’t count because I go for one of those teams.

So does that mean because you support australia I can just say your Big 3 plus one more idea is biased and therefore discredited?

You can say whatever you want. It's your right, but recognise the right of others to have an opinion too. That's what you need to work on

Btw I did back up my stance with facts and statistics.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

You really don't understand the promotion and relegation system do you. If the Windies are so good they can get promoted from the 2nd tier then no one can stop them. If they can't then stop wasting everyone's time. It's a complete waste of money and time to play those nations in Australia as they will never ever beat a good Australian team here. 2 teams should be promoted and relegated from each group every year like a season.

Best thing for cricket

 

[PhatBoy]

You really don't understand the promotion and relegation system do you. If the Windies are so good they can get promoted from the 2nd tier then no one can stop them. If they can't then stop wasting everyone's time. It's a complete waste of money and time to play those nations in Australia as they will never ever beat a good Australian team here. 2 teams should be promoted and relegated from each group every year like a season.

One goes up, one goes down, in the model being debated.

Please, explain it to me again because I can’t get my head around it.

No team will improve to the required standard if that is the case. Whoever gets promoted will get beaten by the sides already in the top tier and be immediately relegated.

If you’re happy watching the same teams play amongst themselves time after time, good for you.
Pretty ******* boring version of sport.

 

[PhatBoy]

You can say whatever you want. It's your right, but recognise the right of others to have an opinion too. That's what you need to work on

Btw I did back up my stance with facts and statistics.

From what I read you told me who the West Indies had beaten over the last 10 years.

Very convincing means of establishing why 8 teams should be excluded from playing 4 others.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

From what I read you told me who the West Indies had beaten over the last 10 years.

Very convincing means of establishing why 8 teams should be excluded from playing 4 others.

No one is proposing anyone be excluded from anything. Merely teams should earn the right to play at the top tier. I also backed up my opinions with clear data showing the windies struggle in tests these days and are regularly beaten by almost everyone else. So that took my opinion into factual territory.
I can handle you disagreeing with my opinion but shouting down facts makes you look petty and stubborn

If the Windies sort their governance out and fix their own patch then we all know how good they could be.

You are a highly charged emotional poster. Just relax dude and accept not everyone thinks like you

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

One goes up, one goes down, in the model being debated.

Please, explain it to me again because I can’t get my head around it.

No team will improve to the required standard if that is the case. Whoever gets promoted will get beaten by the sides already in the top tier and be immediately relegated.

If you’re happy watching the same teams play amongst themselves time after time, good for you.
Pretty ******* boring version of sport.

That's your opinion mate. That's all it is. It seems like what you really can't get your head around is another point of view. Would that be fair to say? Because it seems like most of the forum feels differently to you.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's your opinion mate. That's all it is. It seems like what you really can't get your head around is another point of view. Would that be fair to say? Because it seems like most of the forum feels differently to you.

Most of the forum? Please prove that most of the forum wants tiered test cricket. Thanks.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Most of the forum? Please prove that most of the forum wants tiered test cricket. Thanks.

Agreed would be a ridiculous thing for cricket. Don’t and never need it. If anything these weaker sides need more tests. They will only improve playing the best players.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Most of the forum? Please prove that most of the forum wants tiered test cricket. Thanks.

I think most of the forum wants a contest not to see teams give up on foreign soil most of the time.

You seem to be clinging on to the exception of the status quo where teams pull out the odd win once in a blue moon. Then you use that miracle win as justification for why no one should tinker with test cricket.

Like I said mate, if I line up fifty balls on one side of a football field and kick them probably one's going to make it in the goal.

At some stage Sri Lanka were always going to fluke a win like they did in SA last year but that one fluke came amid decades of rubbish results overseas and now they struggle at home pretty much.

Why do open minded progressives like me and some others here frighten you? I'm trying to get tests back on track by promoting suggestions to improve the contest and the spectacle.

I'm using facts to justify my argument and I'm keeping my posts as emotion free as possible. If the health of the game is so good right now why are the boards around the world having these exact same discussions too?