Tasmania Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

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BringBackTorps

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Re NZ (where RU was once akin to a religion)

"It has been predicted that basketball will become New Zealand's most participated youth sport by high school students this year, having overtaken rugby a couple of years ago"
"The younger you are, the less likely you were to be watching rugby...of the Super Rugby audience...just 10% 1990-2005 (born, watched Super Rugby- my words)".
"...the professional game in NZ will be a ticking time bomb towards extinction without the younger audience to replace it".


Soccer already has far more players in NZ than RU players. C. 200,000 play soccer, & an extra 49,000 play indoor futsal (I assume both nos. include club & school comps., one-offf "community events"/Gala Days etc.). Probably many soccer players counted several times.


MEMO AFL
. grant Tasmania their own AFL team c. 2025, assuming their Bid demonstrates the Tas. team will be financially sustainable (Tas. NBL team almost certain to enter soon)
. reduce injury rates in male & female GR AF- & AFL & AFLW.





EDIT:
RE NZ RU- from NZ Herald 14.1.18, above
"The biggest area of concern around rugby is school-leaving age where numbers are worringly thin"
 
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raymond35

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Basketball.......Any idiot who can walk can play school basketball . It takes no dedication or interest in the sport, and is just a temporary distraction to get out of normal classes.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Basketball.......Any idiot who can walk can play school basketball . It takes no dedication or interest in the sport, and is just a temporary distraction to get out of normal classes.
Pardon? Its a significant world game. Even the US franchises see the value in developing players here. Millions of US & other overseas eyes watching the NBL has boosted its value.

WTF about school basketball? Did you get slam dunked over or what?
 
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And word on the NBL team down there?

Last I heard was there was supposed to be an announcement or reveal beginning of Jan.

I hear the substantive issues are agreed. The basketball centre to be owned by the state, purchase off the local council. Redeveloped by the State Gov, leased to an NBL franchise. An attached indoor centre of 4-5 courts. Wilkinsons point waterfront area to be developed by Kesselman. Hotel. units, food drink outlets.

I understand Its more the time lines for redevelopment of the whole area which are being discussed. That involves council who are hopeless, the State Gov & Kesselman. He'd drive a hard bargain I'd recon. Its his risk so that's no surprise.

I'm sure they'll sort it in good time. The overall concept worth $200mil & 1000 jobs looks great for all parties & would be silly to miss.
 

BringBackTorps

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Some interesting background info. re Tasmania joining the AFL

. Tas. defeated Vic. in 1990 at Bellerive, 134-101; & Tas. defeated WA in 1911 at Adelaide Oval
(It also defeated Vic. in 1960, 91-84, at Launceston- without Baldock selected, who was injured. It has also defeated WA several times, inc. 1958, 1963 & 1970; also def. SA 1956 & 1958. Was competitive in many other interstate games against these 3 teams)

. a 1997 Tas. govt. Bid included a 30,000 stadium at Hobart Showgrounds

. " In 1992, R. Curtiss, then President of successful TSL club Clarence, flagged the inevitable (my emphasis) decline of Tasmanian football without the presence of its own AFL (my emphases) side. Curtis said that 'The only way to get the kids playing football here is to give them access to the best product available, and that, of course, is AFL football. You would have to call the side Tasmania'...".

Prescient.

.
In 2008, A. Demetriou said " They probably do deserve a team, we shouldn't dismiss the contribution that Tasmania has made to our game".

. In 2009, A. Demetriou said, responding to questions why Tasmania isn't a priority " Tasmanians already watch AFL".

."
A Herald Sun Fox Footy 2015 Footy Fans Survey of 14,000 fans...asking 'where should the AFL invest its expansion resources'...(voted) 78% supporting Tasmania as the location...(for) expansion...".

. Early 2019, the AFL provided the Tas. govt. with " guideline requirements" for a 19th team- included 50,000 new Tas. team members. (Tas. National Party Senator has a similar view- see post # 1519).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_AFL_bid





EDIT:
I, originally, thought the 50,000 members goal was simply the aim of the Tas. govt Bid- I never realised it was an AFL requirement for the 19th team.

Can Tasmania achieve this; &, if so, when?
 
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Apr 12, 2012
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I hear the substantive issues are agreed. The basketball centre to be owned by the state, purchase off the local council. Redeveloped by the State Gov, leased to an NBL franchise. An attached indoor centre of 4-5 courts. Wilkinsons point waterfront area to be developed by Kesselman. Hotel. units, food drink outlets.

I understand Its more the time lines for redevelopment of the whole area which are being discussed. That involves council who are hopeless, the State Gov & Kesselman. He'd drive a hard bargain I'd recon. Its his risk so that's no surprise.

I'm sure they'll sort it in good time. The overall concept worth $200mil & 1000 jobs looks great for all parties & would be silly to miss.
Fingers crossed. Was wprried they might drop out after the Huskies went packing.
 

thegreig

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Call me crazy but I actually think Tassie getting a NBL team could improve their chances of getting an AFL club. They should look at having at setup like Barcelona do with soccer and basketball.

Edit: obviously Barcelona have a far bigger population, are a hugely recognised brand globally and have seemingly endless funds. I meant more in terms of having one brand for all Tasmanian’s to get behind and working together to see both teams succeed
 
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Some interesting background info. re Tasmania joining the AFL

. Tas. defeated Vic. in 1990 at Bellerive, 134-101; & Tas. defeated WA in 1911 at Adelaide Oval
(It also defeated Vic. in 1960, 91-84, at Launceston- without Baldock selected, who was injured. It has also defeated WA several times, inc. 1958, 1963 & 1970; also def. SA 1956 & 1958)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_AFL_bid

Ahhh, Tassie beat Victoria in 1990, at North Hobart Oval, not Bellerive. ;)
 
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Call me crazy but I actually think Tassie getting a NBL team could improve their chances of getting an AFL club. They should look at having at setup like Barcelona do with soccer and basketball.

Edit: obviously Barcelona have a far bigger population, are a hugely recognised brand globally and have seemingly endless funds. I meant more in terms of having one brand for all Tasmanian’s to get behind and working together to see both teams succeed

I hope. :)

The AFL run the league & controls the clubs. Kesselman runs the NBL. Its sounds great. Having Footy & BBall plus cricket managed by one entity would save admin & other costs. Plus combine marketing & membership possibilities.

However the league bosses love their little empires.;)
 

BringBackTorps

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Basketball regd. official nos. are at record levels in Tasmania- & a Tas. NBL team can be expected to turbocharge this growth.

In Sept. 2019, NBA star L. Ball played in Hobart in a pre-season tournament- & L. Kestelman said

"... Ball's game on Friday night in Hobart attracting over 100,000 viewers to a live stream...".


Are these 100,000 individual viewers? Surely not all in Tasmania? Can the duration of the average streamed view be estimated?

How realistic would it be to adopt Kestelman's suggestion that NBL, a Tas. AFL team & cricket teams co-operate?
Which sport would be the biggest beneficiary?
 
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Basketball regd. official nos. are at record levels in Tasmania- & a Tas. NBL team can be expected to turbocharge this growth.

In Sept. 2019, NBA star L. Ball played in Hobart in a pre-season tournament- & L. Kestelman said

"... Ball's game on Friday night in Hobart attracting over 100,000 viewers to a live stream...".


Are these 100,000 individual viewers? Surely not all in Tasmania? Can the duration of the average streamed view be estimated?

How realistic would it be to adopt Kestelman's suggestion that NBL, a Tas. AFL team & cricket teams co-operate?
Which sport would be the biggest beneficiary?

Got to get some clubs first. ;)

As said, Having a central admin & marketing arm would reduce costs at least.

Does it happen anywhere else in Australia?
 
Apr 24, 2018
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Kesselman saw the business opportunity & he owns the NBL.

So he blindsided Hickey & the Huskies. Pretty rotten, but thats how business works I guess.
Hickey and the huskies were never going to get a license they didn’t have the funds needed which is quite a lot these days and they pissed off kestleman entering the team in nznbl he can see how desperate our government is for a team in a national comp and is taking advantage of it !
 
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Hickey and the huskies were never going to get a license they didn’t have the funds needed which is quite a lot these days and they pissed off kestleman entering the team in nznbl he can see how desperate our government is for a team in a national comp and is taking advantage of it !

Who told you that? Why would a team in the NZBL affect Kesselman?

He's a property developer so would have seen the $$ signs with the Wilkinsons point development idea. He just cut Hickeys lunch over the deal. I don't see the Government as desperate for a team. The whole proposal makes sense for all parties. At least from the outside view we have.
 
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Who told you that? Why would a team in the NZBL affect Kesselman?

He's a property developer so would have seen the $$ signs with the Wilkinsons point development idea. He just cut Hickeys lunch over the deal. I don't see the Government as desperate for a team. The whole proposal makes sense for all parties. At least from the outside view we have.
Yeah I don’t disagree mate the team will be great for the state as well as the other developments I’d say the government are pretty keen considering there about to spend 60 million which is great news as the dec needed an upgrade anyway can’t wait it was pretty clear from early on that hickey was not going to get a license when he offered a tiny sum for the dec he also upset a lot of people from knifing the Hobart chargers and apparently he wasn’t told buy the huskies they were entering the nznbl I’m not sure why but apparently was not happy which is why he got basketball Australia to block mt gambier from entering nznbl next season !
 

BringBackTorps

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AFR P. Durkin 27.9.19

AFL Commission Chairman, R. Goyder, discusses the "pathway" Tasmania has been set, for Tasmania to have its own team. He mentions Tasmania will join the VFL, & needs to "develop the talent pathways and commercial support".

The article says, crucially, by adding the 2 "minnows" GC & GWS, the AFL profits by c. $54,000,000 per annum.
(The $54m. pa probably includes, also, indirect financial benefits for the AFL. GWS CEO D. Matthews said the 9th game pw was worth $60m. pa for the AFL; award-winning journalist C. Le Grand, citing an unnamed AFL official, said 9th game pw was worth $54m. pa for the AFL).


It can be considered a positive for the possible Tasmanian entry into the AFL c. 2025 because, in the article, Goyder:-

. mentions the financial health of the AFL ($150,000,000 total profit for 2017-2019)- & implies this health is necessary before the AFL can seriously consider adding a team in Tasmania.

. is comfortable to publicly mention the Tasmanian team is being seriously considered by the AFL; &, crucially, is happy with the progress of GC & GWS.

. establishes a clear criteria: Tasmania will need to produce more talented players, & improve its player base generally.
(I assume that also includes producing players before 2024 that are very competitive/dominate at VFL level- which it enters in 2021).

When Tasmania joins c. 2025, there will be 11 extra games pa (ie 198 +11=209 H & A games).

The extra games, & probably 11 more prime time Thur. night marquee games (not involving Tasmanian home games, which all 11 are played on weekends, during the day), could be worth tens of millions of $ per annum, for the AFL, directly & indirectly.
(as I have previously discussed on BF- see my posts, above, # 874, 937, 1250, 1351 & 1372).

The Tas. Bid team has emphasised its Bid will be (MUST be, to be allowed entry?) to demonstrate on what a Tas. team "can ADD to the AFL". AFAIK, this fundamental issue/criterion has received no MSM analysis.
It is very likely Tasmania's Bid will claim its entry can, & will, produce its most valuable "addition" (& what the AFL covets most): the restoration of the fabled Tasmanian VFL/AFL recruitment goldmine of champions & star players.

The AFL is devoting extra funding now on Tasmania's elite jnr & snr programs.
 
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The Tas. Bid team has emphasised its Bid will be (MUST be, to be allowed entry?) to demonstrate on what a Tas. team "can ADD to the AFL". AFAIK, this fundamental issue/criterion has received no MSM analysis.

If only someone had mentioned that repeatedly on this forum...

No doubt everyone would have pointed out the clearly identifiable benefits rather than dismissing the poster as just hating Tas for suggesting such a thing...
 
The article says, crucially, by adding the 2 "minnows" GC & GWS, the AFL profits by c. $54,000,000 per annum.
(The $54m. pa probably includes, also, indirect financial benefits for the AFL. GWS CEO D. Matthews said the 9th game pw was worth $60m. pa for the AFL; award-winning journalist C. Le Grand, citing an unnamed AFL official, said 9th game pw was worth $54m. pa for the AFL).

TV rights are 2.5B over 6 years, or ~400M/year.

Averaged over 9 games would be ~45M/game.

Are you really suggesting the 9th game (sunday twilight?) is worth more than the rest?

It is very likely Tasmania's Bid will claim its entry can, & will, produce its most valuable "addition" (& what the AFL covets most): the restoration of the fabled Tasmanian VFL/AFL recruitment goldmine of champions & star players.

The 'goldmine' has declined as Tas has declined.

Tas still produces players at roughly the same rate per capita as other football states (more than some, less than others). The 'decline' has been in the (relative) base population.
 

BringBackTorps

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TV rights are 2.5B over 6 years, or ~400M/year.

Averaged over 9 games would be ~45M/game.

Are you really suggesting the 9th game (sunday twilight?) is worth more than the rest?
1. I have given my explanation (re the 3 AFL sources that the 9th game pw is worth between $54m. -$60m. per annum for the AFL; & why Tas. will join the AFL c. 2025) in my very detailed posts above- # 725, 874, 937, 1250, 1351 & 1372.

I believe these annual AFL benefits quoted include, also, indirect financial benefits received each year for the addition of GC & GWS.
Apart from the extra broadcast rights $ for the 9th game, other financial benefits are:-
. GC & GWS themselves attract direct private sponsorship $ (IIRC, c. $12m. pa, each)

. addition of very valuable, new AFL stadia on the GC & GWS funded by state govts.

. extensive, valuable extra free MSM AFL coverage in Qld. & NSW

. vast GR growth/extra AFL players drafted from NSW & Qld.; extra GR facilities paid for by local govts. etc.
(creation of GC & GWS have directly contributed to these- & would be VERY expensive for the AFL to emulate, if GC & GWS had not been created)



The 'goldmine' has declined as Tas has declined.[No. Tas. population is at a record high]

Tas still produces players [but not quality] at roughly the same rate per capita [recently Draft nos. have collapsed] as other football states (more than some, less than others). The 'decline' has been in the (relative) base population.
The quality of the recruitment goldmine has declined (but not the population, which is currently a record 540,000) because Tasmania does not have its own elite team (with the attendant tribalism etc.) & proper elite pathways. Tas. fans in Tasmania, similar to AF fans around Australia, only want to follow the elite competition.

Without its own elite team, AF in Tasmania could not defend itself against the depredations of the VFL & AFL.

For this reason, & others, A. Demetriou (in 2008, & again in 2019) & G. Mc Lachlan (several times, including recently) have both said (paraphrasing) that, when expansion occurs next, Tasmania will probably be the next team to join. Former Commission Chairman R. Oakley has also said in 2019 Tasmania, as a 19th team, should join the AFL.
I will again ask you: what do you know that they don't?
(When I put this same question to you previously in other Tas. threads, you did not respond to this question. Later, your pathetic answer to this question was that Demetriou & McLachlan were both publicly "lying" in their views that Tasmania would probably be the the next team to join, on expansion).

Tas. now produces far fewer champions & star players (a description not applicable to many current players drafted from Tasmania). Tas. is overrepresented in the AFL Hall OF Fame & AFL Team Of The Century.
On actual nos., much fewer Tas. players are being drafted in recent times.

Professional cricket thrives in Tasmania, & a NBL team will almost certainly start soon in Tas. Strong support for its own AL team.

How do you explain that it is only in Tas. that:-

. even though it is an heartland state, its Drafted player nos. recently have collapsed?

. male GR AF competition nos. are in significant decline?
And why is it the only state that has a GR AF long term decline in comp.nos., simultaneously with a long term boom in GR soccer & basketball comp. nos.?

. even though it is an heartland state, soccer & basketball regd. GR nos. are threatening GR AF (and even though Tasmania has, relatively, very few immigrants from soccer-playing nations)?

. raw attendance nos. at AFL matches are in significant decline?




Also
2. The Tas. 19th Team Bid case (to enter c. 2025) is, wisely, based on "It needs to add something to the AFL".
And demonstrating a sound business case that the Tas. team is financially sustainable. Bid team member E. Stewart has publicly expressed confidence in the Bid's financial soundness, good corporate support etc.

Tasmania is not arguing for any other AFL team to be removed, of for mergers.




3. I hope a decision is made soon on the Bid- & I hope Tasmanians don't get robbed again (similar to what happened to this sad Tasmanian case)

https://twitter.com/tasaflteam?lang=en

(go to the twitter on 12.1.20)



4. "Sitting on the precipice of history, it's a frightening time for Tasmanian footy".

B. Godfrey, Bid Team Chairman said

. "It will allow them to see and engage with their local heroes (my emphases) as demonstrated with the expansion teams, participation will rise".
The Tas. Bid is wisely using GWS to support its case- AF has had a participation boom in Sydney's WS (which formerly was barren for AF) & the ACT- & Draft nos. have grown strongly.

. the team colours will be the traditional "myrtle, primrose & magenta".

 
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Aug 14, 2011
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I hear the substantive issues are agreed. The basketball centre to be owned by the state, purchase off the local council. Redeveloped by the State Gov, leased to an NBL franchise. An attached indoor centre of 4-5 courts. Wilkinsons point waterfront area to be developed by Kesselman. Hotel. units, food drink outlets.

I understand Its more the time lines for redevelopment of the whole area which are being discussed. That involves council who are hopeless, the State Gov & Kesselman. He'd drive a hard bargain I'd recon. Its his risk so that's no surprise.

I'm sure they'll sort it in good time. The overall concept worth $200mil & 1000 jobs looks great for all parties & would be silly to miss.

Timeline ?
 
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Timeline ?

Timelines are the agreements on when things will be done. ie things like when the parties will agree to the stadium upgrade design. When government will start & finish the stadium upgrade. Also the Hotel concept & other parts of the $200mil Wilkinsons point proposal will be agreed to, designed & when the building will commence & finish.

Dot the i's & cross the t's stuff.
 
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Timelines are the agreements on when things will be done. ie things like when the parties will agree to the stadium upgrade design. When government will start & finish the stadium upgrade. Also the Hotel concept & other parts of the $200mil Wilkinsons point proposal will be agreed to, designed & when the building will commence & finish.

Dot the i's & cross the t's stuff.

No targets?
 
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