Ending congestion

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Bunk Moreland said:
The incentive can still be to get the ball, but what made the game great was the fast flowing movement if it. Constant attack (or attempt to attack) rather than keeping possession or forcing a stoppage. Which is what it has become now.

You have to force players to continually attack and that means moving the ball on. If you don’t, you’re doomed to what we have now.
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apparently half time break is being reduced to 10 mins next season ...

more half assed measures to try and end congestion

remove the bench or make it substitutes and it will be like 1975 again
 
sprockets said:
The incentive is still there to get the ball because the only way you can kick a higher score than the opposition and win is by getting it. The AFL needs to de-incentivise ;) holding onto the ball when tackled.
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Yes but they can now achieve that just by wait for an opposition player to pick it up and tackle them.
 
mike123 said:
Yes but they can now achieve that just by wait for an opposition player to pick it up and tackle them.
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How do you kick a higher score than the opposition by waiting for an opposition player to get the ball and tackling them? Someone else getting the ball isn't going to get you a higher score, even if you manage to lock them up in a tackle.

OTOH if the ball's there you can grab it and dispose of it (a positive), grab it and elude tackles, if you're good enough (a skill), and then dispose of it (positive), or you can try to tap it to a teammate (positive), away from opposition players (positive) or in the direction of your goals (positive). No-one will be standing around waiting to tackle (a negative) when the ball's there for the taking, especially if they can do something positive with it. If you're aware of what's going on around you (skill) then you'll know if you're about to be tackled so then you tap the ball rather than grabbing it and being tackled causing a stoppage (negative).
 

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sprockets said:
How do you kick a higher score than the opposition by waiting for an opposition player to get the ball and tackling them?

OTOH if the ball's there they can grab it and dispose of it (a positive), grab it and elude tackles, if they're good enough (a skill), and then dispose of it (positive), or they can try to tap it to a teammate (positive), away from opposition players (positive) or in the direction of their goals (positive). No-one will be standing around waiting to tackle (a negative) when the ball's there for the taking, especially if they can do something positive with it. If you're aware of what's going on around you (skill) then you'll know if you're about to be tackled so then you tap the ball rather than grabbing it and being tackled causing a stoppage (negative).
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The very first laws of the game did not permit players to take possession of the ball off/from the ground. To legally gain possession the ball had to be taken in the air; from a kick, handball or 'on the bounce'.
Believe it or not this rule was designed to protect players sustaining injuries from 'hacking', an early term today known as 'kicking in danger'. A rare example of OH&S in the early 19th century !!!

I recall a discussion around the league in the 1970's which was driven by Tom Hafey who wanted the rule re-introduced after a spate of kicking in danger injuries...

Perhaps a version of this rule could be adopted to the modern game, eg. only after umpire bounces/ball-ups and throw-ins? It would certainly help reduce congestion and basically the only real change to game would be an increase in the 1% type knock-on plays...

Thoughts?
 
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sprockets said:
How do you kick a higher score than the opposition by waiting for an opposition player to get the ball and tackling them?
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Becuase you’ll immediately win the ball back because there is no prior opportunity anymore.

Why risk turning the ball over by winning it when you can just tackle the opposition and a free kick instead?

If you want to reduce congestion make it harder for the tacklers not easier. Once gang tackling isn’t a viable defensive tactic coaches will stop using it.
 
mike123 said:
Becuase you’ll immediately win the ball back because there is no prior opportunity anymore.

Why risk turning the ball over by winning it when you can just tackle the opposition and a free kick instead?

If you want to reduce congestion make it harder for the tacklers not easier. Once gang tackling isn’t a viable defensive tactic coaches will stop using it.
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You honestly think this would cause players to not try to win the ball?

Seriously?

In the face of 100 years of evidence?
 
mike123 said:
Becuase you’ll immediately win the ball back because there is no prior opportunity anymore.

Why risk turning the ball over by winning it when you can just tackle the opposition and a free kick instead?

If you want to reduce congestion make it harder for the tacklers not easier. Once gang tackling isn’t a viable defensive tactic coaches will stop using it.
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But before or when that player gets tackled he'll dispose of it. Remember the ball carrier still has a short amount of time to do so. He might also choose to tap it on (as above). Also, if the player doesn't dispose of it the tackler will get a free kick and move the ball out of the area.
 
Fantastic watching some of the “classic” games on 504 over the break. I watched Essendon v West Coast from 1993 last night. It was just endless movement and action.

Why? There were no ******* ball ups. Players didn’t get caught - they didn’t take possession or if they did, they got rid of straight away and moved it on. When a tackle did stick, it moved on anyway - via a free kick either way.

Solution is right there.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Fantastic watching some of the “classic” games on 504 over the break. I watched Essendon v West Coast from 1993 last night. It was just endless movement and action.

Why? There were no ******* ball ups. Players didn’t get caught - they didn’t take possession or if they did, they got rid of straight away and moved it on. When a tackle did stick, it moved on anyway - via a free kick either way.

Solution is right there.
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Yep, biggest problem for congestion right now is that tackles aren't rewarded. I think prior opportunity is a good rule, but needs to be limited to the first one or two steps the ball carrier has. After that, ping them.
 
Bunk Moreland said:
The AFL has trialled and implemented all types of new rules to ease congestion and get the ball moving.

I reckon the one that would make the biggest difference is staring us right in the face.

Look at what happens now at EVERY contested situation.

Ball-up around the ground? The ruckmen tap it down, a player takes possession in the maul and is immediately set upon by opponents. Another ball-up.

Boundary throw-in? Same thing. Ball-up.

Two players chasing a contested ball. One gets there a split second before the other, grabs the footy, and is immediately tackled by the opponent. Ball-up.

The issue? Simple. It's players taking possession.

They grab it and try to bullock their way through, invariably being caught and dragged to ground for another stoppage. This is what results in stoppage after stoppage, allowing everybody to set up around the ball.

This is when the game most resembles the ugliest sport of all, rugby union.

The solution? Also simple. Get rid of the "prior opportunity" ruling.

There should be no such thing. If you're caught with the ball in a legal tackle, then it's holding the ball, and a free kick to your opponent.

Your options in traffic?

1: Don't take possession. Knock it on toward a teammate and keep the game moving.

2: Keep your arms free in the tackle and get a handball away, and keep the game moving.

3: Break the tackle and you're away, keeping the game moving.

To assist with it the ruckman could belt the ball further, into space.

If you can't do 2 or 3, then don't take possession of the ball. Keep it moving. You can't just give players the right to grab the ball when they have multiple opponents around them to immediately grab them and force yet another stoppage.

Repeated stoppages don't break, and the game doesn't get moving again, until one of these things happens anyway. So enforce in in the rules.

It's only really an issue in traffic, which is (by definition) congestion. So make the players get it moving, or pay a free kick against them.

Basically every time there was a tackle, unless the player immediately disposes by handball, there'd be a free kick... holding the ball, or against the tackler if it's too high etc. No matter what, the game would have to keep moving.

I suspect it'd also be simpler to umpire, and without so many breaks for stoppages, you couldn't have 35 players following the ball around constantly.
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Watch a 90s game. As soon as 3rd man in it becomes a ball up. Don't wait til it looks like union. The umps need to ball it up quicker, like they used to. Coaches should go back to playing positions just like they do in juniors and it would also help
 
FoxSports B. Waterworth 1.5.18

Congestion is ruining the game (& minimising the great, unique appeals of AF- high marking, long kicking, running with the ball & bouncing).
Congestion is taking away the crucial ingredients that players often had prior to c.2004- time & space, which allowed them to exercise their skills. The interchange cancer & 4 on the bench are the genesis of congestion.

In this link, some experts address the game's serious & depressing problems.

www.foxsports.com.au

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues: congestion, goal kicking, skills

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

I am heavily involved in GR AF, & I'm also a GR snr field umpire- I see a lot of GR footy, including watching my sons play.
In GR AF, from U16 up, flooding has been come FAR more prevalent. Light weight adult males (ie less than 73kgs) are being smashed, & sometimes injured, because time & space is being removed.
For the light weights (including jnrs.), to give them some protection (time & space) from being crunched & caught in big packs, coaches formerly put them on:-

. the wings (if they had good leg speed)
. or in the forward pocket or half forward flank, with instructions "keep leading into space".

These instructions no longer give the same level of protection- there ain't no time & space. SHAME on the AFL!


GWS Chairman T. Sheppard says the ugly, scrappy congestion is also diluting AF's point-of-difference (ie should be reasonably open & free-flowing) with other codes, & hurting the ability to popularise AF in the nthn. states.

www.theage.com.au

GWS chief: 'Ugly' congested style impacting on AFL's northern sell

Greater Western Sydney chairman Tony Shepherd has raised concerns about the on-field look of the game.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
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BringBackTorps said:
FoxSports B. Waterworth 1.5.18

Congestion is ruining the game (& minimising the great, unique appeals of AF- high marking, long kicking, running with the ball & bouncing).
Congestion is taking away the crucial ingredients that players often had prior to c.2004- time & space, which allowed them to exercise their skills. The interchange cancer & 4 on the bench are the genesis of congestion.

In this link, some experts address the game's serious & depressing problems.

www.foxsports.com.au

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues: congestion, goal kicking, skills

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

I am heavily involved in GR AF, & I'm also a GR snr field umpire- I see a lot of footy, including watching my sons play.
In GR AF, from U16 up, flooding has been come FAR more prevalent. Light weight adult males (ie less than 73kgs) are being smashed, & sometimes injured, because time & space is being removed.
For the light weights (including jnrs.), to give them some protection from being crunched, we formerly put them on:-

. the wings (if they had good leg speed)
. or in the forward pocket or half forward flank, with instructions "keep leading into space".

These instructions no longer give the same level of protection- there ain't no time & space. SHAME on the AFL!
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Play positions and keep the game moving
 
Engimal v3 said:
Yep, biggest problem for congestion right now is that tackles aren't rewarded. I think prior opportunity is a good rule, but needs to be limited to the first one or two steps the ball carrier has. After that, ping them.
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Not just that. The tackler gets tackled.... 3 players in then quickly 4,5,6 or more. It looks like rugby. The umps used to ball it up as soon as the 3rd player went in hence moving the game on as well.
 

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Bunk Moreland said:
Fantastic watching some of the “classic” games on 504 over the break. I watched Essendon v West Coast from 1993 last night. It was just endless movement and action.

Why? There were no ******* ball ups. Players didn’t get caught - they didn’t take possession or if they did, they got rid of straight away and moved it on. When a tackle did stick, it moved on anyway - via a free kick either way.

Solution is right there.
Click to expand...
Great game.
 
I must admit I find I watch a lot more footy when the older games are on from the 1990s and early 2000s .
The modern game has been hijacked by a combination of the overuse of the interchange, the general public complaining about the umpiring on which has confused them into not blowing the whistle and letting the game go and preseasons that basically start in the last weeks of October.

To be honest I don’t see common sense fixing these issues because the AFL need to set up committees and they need to come up with wild ideas to justify their role such as the 6-6-6 or the kick out rule.




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Engimal v3 said:
Yep, biggest problem for congestion right now is that tackles aren't rewarded. I think prior opportunity is a good rule, but needs to be limited to the first one or two steps the ball carrier has. After that, ping them.
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I pretty much agree with this. Before making a massive rule change, try tightening up the prior opportunity rule. If that doesn't work or too hard to umpire, then I wouldn't have a problem with getting rid of the prior opportunity rule altogether as per the OP's suggestion.

Either way, I think the game can't keep on going the way it is with the congestion.
 
Frank Grimes said:
I pretty much agree with this. Before making a massive rule change, try tightening up the prior opportunity rule. If that doesn't work or too hard to umpire, then I wouldn't have a problem with getting rid of the prior opportunity rule altogether as per the OP's suggestion.

Either way, I think the game can't keep on going the way it is with the congestion.
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This is the current rule

17.6 HOLDING THE BALL
17.6.1 Spirit and Intention
The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle.

The umpires are fecked, as that is a nonsense

17.6.2 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Prior Opportunity
(a) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player does not Correctly Dispose of the football immediately when they are Legally Tackled.
(b) Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, the field Umpire shall throw up the football when a Player, in the act of applying a Legal Tackle, holds the football to the body of the Player
being tackled or the football is otherwise pinned to the ground.
17.6.3 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Incorrect Disposal
Where a Player in Possession of the Football has not had Prior Opportunity, a Free Kick shall be awarded if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
For the avoidance of doubt, a Player does not elect to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when:
(a) the Player genuinely attempts to Correctly Dispose of the football;
(b) the Legal Tackle causes the football to be dislodged from the Player’s possession.
17.6.4 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: No Genuine Attempt
Where a Player is in Possession of the Football and is able but does not genuinely attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled, a Free Kick shall be awarded.
17.6.5 Free Kicks - Holding the Ball: Diving on Top of the Football
A Free Kick shall be awarded against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.

There should be one rule
Free Kick - Holding the ball: a free kick shall be awarded against a player in possession of the football, if they are unable to immediately correctly dispose of the ball when legally tackled.

The best players will still be the ones like Dusty / Pendles who can avoid being legally tackled, just like they always have been.
 
shaqsuns said:
I must admit I find I watch a lot more footy when the older games are on from the 1990s and early 2000s .
The modern game has been hijacked by a combination of the overuse of the interchange, the general public complaining about the umpiring on which has confused them into not blowing the whistle and letting the game go and preseasons that basically start in the last weeks of October.

To be honest I don’t see common sense fixing these issues because the AFL need to set up committees and they need to come up with wild ideas to justify their role such as the 6-6-6 or the kick out rule.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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They aren't exactly showing the bad games from the 80s, 90s and early 00s, people watch a "classic" on FoxFooty and think "how good was footy back then". It's a CLASSIC for a reason...

The game will evolve, teams will try and use the Richmond model of knocking the ball on and away we go with a new trend that people will complain about. Footy is fine its just we are subjected to ALL of it instead of a couple of the better games a round.
 
Freomaniac said:
Well I am dead certain they brought in the 666 rule to kill off ross lyon tactics.

mixed results though

the good news is ross lyon is gone, the bad news is, the AFL had the lowest scoring averages since 1966
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Some teams play attacking wingers and run forward, some defensive.
 
Dennis Cometti has often commented on his dislike for the ugly, scrappy, congested, stoppages-infested modern game.

He wrote, 27.5.2018, a very lengthy article ("Reflecting On The Past Would Help Save The Future") in the Herald Sun, on the changes required to make the game more free flowing.
(This is a requirement of the AFL's own Charter Of The Game- which includes that AF should, generally, be played in an attacking style, with much long kicking, high marking, good scoring & one-on-one contests).

IIRC, he wanted interchange reduction, restore the pre-1996 Holding The Ball Rule (basically eradicating Prior Opportunity), possibly 16 on the field etc.- part of a long list of changes.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies
www.heraldsun.com.au www.heraldsun.com.au

(behind a paywall- can anyone open it)
 
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Bunk Moreland said:
Players taking possession and being immediately wrapped up is the cause of almost all stoppages and congestion.

They’re able to do it because they know they’ll be protected by the prior opportunity interpretation.

It leads to rugby.

It’s the only way to stop it... penalise those who don’t move the ball on.
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Just look at any game that is close and inside the final five minutes. The team in front is happy to get possession and the player will pretend to offload the ball and slow play down. The other side who needs to score is the polar opposite, amazing how quickly players move the ball on even when being tackled. Super quick handballs, risky taps into space and fast ball movement.

Prior opportunity is a fraud. AFL players dont need prior opportunity because they are fast enough, smart enough and strong enough to move the ball on if it suits them. And if they get nailed in a good tackle.......reward the tackle.

Congestion over. More open play and more goals. Simple fix.
 
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