Tony Lockett was better than Wayne Carey or Ablett Snr

[My Tilly]

Lockett.... 1,360 goals
Dunstall... 1,254 goals
Ablett...... 1,031 goals
Carey...... 727 goals


Lockett.... 4.84 goals per game
Dunstall... 4.66 goals per game
Ablett...... 4.16 goals per game
Carey...... 2.67 goals per game


Dunstall... 129 Brownlow votes
Lockett.... 128 Brownlow votes
Carey...... 127 Brownlow votes
Ablett...... 100 Brownlow votes


Dunstall... 0.52 Brownlow votes per game
Carey...... 0.51 Brownlow votes per game
Lockett.... 0.47 Brownlow votes per game
Ablett...... 0.43 Brownlow votes per game


Carey...... 2 MVP awards (1995, 1998)
Dunstall... 1 MVP award (1992)
Lockett.... 1 MVP award (1987)
Ablett...... 1 MVP award (1993)


Dunstall... 4 Best and Fairests (1988, 1989, 1992, 1993)
Carey...... 4 Best and Fairests (1992, 1993, 1996, 1998)
Lockett.... 3 Best and Fairests (1987, 1991, 1995)
Ablett...... 1 Best and Fairest (1985)


Dunstall... 4 Premierships (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991)
Carey...... 2 Premierships (1996, 1999)
Lockett.... 0 Premierships
Ablett...... 0 Premierships



Dunstall and Carey were the best team players of that quartet. They raised the bar for key forwards when it came to selflessness and dedication to the team. No surprise they captained their clubs, shared 6 premierships between them, won more best fairests and averaged more Brownlow votes.

Lockett and Ablett were two of the best individualists ever, but not such great team players. Flawed geniuses who seemingly did as they pleased.
Was it a pure coincidence that neither of them played in a premiership?

Dunstall should not be in the conversation and the general public consensus is that he isn't.
He walked into a champion team already winning premierships so with or without him, they win flags as they were stacked in every position.

What more could Lockett possibly do with the team he had around him?

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Lockett charged me $5 for his autograph when I was a kid. Not long after handing over the fiver I was at a ‘Milo’ sports clinic where Carey attended. He was about to finish up when I asked him for his autograph, he just turned around and kept walking. Ablett Snr signed my 1994 AFL Select Gary Ablett Legend Card, I remember he had a bit of a chat with me afterwards and was very good with his time.

 

[Pessimistic]

Dunstall should not be in the conversation and the general public consensus is that he isn't.
He walked into a champion team already winning premierships so with or without him, they win flags as they were stacked in every position.

What more could Lockett possibly do with the team he had around him?

‘a team which decided Gary Ablett didn’t meet their standards? I hate how these discussions disrespect absolute champions. You can’t say that if you saw hawthorn after 93, when they were effectively broke. Dunstall still returned two seasons well above a hundred goals

at the end of lockets career, Sydney were a pretty good team

 

[footyfan1978]

Lockett charged me $5 for his autograph when I was a kid. Not long after handing over the fiver I was at a ‘Milo’ sports clinic where Carey attended. He was about to finish up when I asked him for his autograph, he just turned around and kept walking.

You were probably just a very annoying kid.

 

[Atomboy]

This is rubbish. I’d take Chief over Lockett myself.

Put Lockett in the Hawks teams of the late 80’s and early 90’s and he probably kicks 200 goals.

Do the reverse for Dunstall and he probably kicks 50 goals.

Some of the sides Plugger played in were absolutely putrid and he still managed to dominate.

 

[footyfan1978]

Put Lockett in the Hawks teams of the late 80’s and early 90’s and he probably kicks 200 goals.

Do the reverse for Dunstall and he probably kicks 50 goals.

Some of the sides Plugger played in were absolutely putrid and he still managed to dominate.

This. Before Pugger come along, Saints were absolute rubbish.

I'd followed over a dozen seasons of footy before Saints finally made a finals series. They were still an ordinary side but Plugger made them look more dangerous than they truly were.
Lockett once he was well past his teenage years was just awesome in his mid 20's at Saints.

 

[Brutalitops]

Even Jack Riewoldt is better than Carey.

Nah

 

[woota]

What could Fev do that Lockett couldn't? I loved Fev, but I can't think of much here and I saw a lot of these two players.

Well here's a good place to start.

 

[footyfan1978]

Well here's a good place to start.

Fev was exciting player but he is no Plugger,
Another level mate.
Fair enough if you did not grow up seeing Plugger play in 80's I can understand not truly getting how much better he was.

 

[woota]

Fev was exciting player but he is no Plugger,
Another level mate.
Fair enough if you did not grow up seeing Plugger play in 80's I can understand not truly getting how much better he was.

I saw most of lockett's games at Sydney. Most of his goals were very routine and came from him marking the ball on a lead or one out in the forward 50, and he was the best in the game at doing those things. But what you saw in that Fevola highlight reel is another level. Lockett couldn't do those things and if you think he could, then show me a highlight reel of him doing that. Lockett kicking the ball over his head out of mid air through the goals? Not happening.

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Who the heck threw Fevola’s name into the mix? Lol.

 

[Call again]

Dude, Carey was no good above his head for the majority of his career. Leapt high and took them on his chest. Lockett didn't get far off the ground but his strait armed above head marking was as good as anyone's

No issues with Plugger being part of the GOAT convo. He is one of the best I have seen too. But it is apples, oranges and pears. All are good, but all are different. Lead out forward - Plugger. Overhead - Carey. Do freaky stuff that shouldn't happen - Ablett. But all of them players that gave opp coaches nightmares.

Best FF Ive seen - Plugger
Best CHF Ive seen - Carey
Best all round forward - Ablett

Maybe a Hudson v Plugger analogy would fit - both so very different players, in all ways, and if you got away with them only kicking 4 or 5 against you, then you'd had a good day. But can you pick between both in their prime.... nah, you'd find room for both.

 

[footyfan1978]

I saw most of lockett's games at Sydney. Most of his goals were very routine and came from him marking the ball on a lead or one out in the forward 50, and he was the best in the game at doing those things. But what you saw in that Fevola highlight reel is another level. Lockett couldn't do those things and if you think he could, then show me a highlight reel of him doing that. Lockett kicking the ball over his head out of mid air through the goals? Not happening.

Mate, you missed the whole point. It is about how good he was. not the freak little moments, Plugger was nowhere near as freakish as Ablett and hundreds of other players that have played but as a full forward he is best most of us that seen this period, will ever see and yes, you also highlighted what I suggested already about you actually did not even see the best of Lockett. He's best was at St.Kilda. You only seen later part of his career.
You are not going to find anywhere near as much video of Plugger from 80's because Saints were hardly on tv back then and even the few times they were on tv, sadly channel 7 did not keep a lot of footage of those times. If you did not see those times, it is tough for you to get how amazing his feats were in such a s**t team. If you kept him to 4 goals you had actually done a good job as a full forward, that is how good he was.

Best full forward of my time for sure. Lots of other good full forward and entertaining types too, but not in same class as Plugger. Dunstall the closest of our time. Lloyd probably next best. Fevola in a large group after that. Fev probably best full forward of last 15 years. Plugger the best of last four decades at minimum. Have no idea how good Coieman and Pratt were but suspect they up there as greatest full forwards in football history.

 

[footyfan1978]

Dude, Carey was no good above his head for the majority of his career. Leapt high and took them on his chest. Lockett didn't get far off the ground but his strait armed above head marking was as good as anyone's

Yeah, Plugger was a super mark. Having seen SOS on Carey and Plugger, was easier to outpoint Carey than Plugger in marking contest.
Carey was better on the move and bouncing ball than Plugger, and importantly was playing a different position. More centre half forward, the best at that spot. Plugger the best I seen at full forward. Pluggers's marking was 8.5 out of 10, kicking for goal 9.9 out of 10. Never seen a more reliable kick for goal. He is everything kicking for goal, the opposite of Casboult...lol

 

[Brutalitops]

Dude, Carey was no good above his head for the majority of his career. Leapt high and took them on his chest. Lockett didn't get far off the ground but his strait armed above head marking was as good as anyone's

I remember Plugger in his final days at Sydney. 3 to 5 blokes literally hanging off him with the fitness level of a park footballer (he was ******* fat. No polite way to state it). Still took the mark and reliably kicked the goal. Every time. Unstoppable. Only two players ive seen were able to handle him. SOS and Jacko.

Carey's thing was running back with the flight. He was courageous, but many were. Why people bang on about him I'll never know. Mckernan was by far the better player of those North sides in the 90s

 

[woota]

Dude, Carey was no good above his head for the majority of his career. Leapt high and took them on his chest. Lockett didn't get far off the ground but his strait armed above head marking was as good as anyone's

Agree with this but in a way, I thought this actually added to Carey's legacy. He struggled to mark the ball above his head after a shoulder injury, so he marked everything on his chest, relying on his agility to get high off the ground and take chest marks over packs, and also develop an uncanny ability to mark the ball with one arm while using his other arm to keep his opponent busy. The point being that even after a shoulder injury that could have hampered his career, he still found a way to dominate by adapting his game around his new limitations and developing strengths in other areas to compensate for it.

 

[Atomboy]

Who the heck through Fevola’s name into the mix? Lol.

He was no Lockett but I loved watching the Fevolution.

Always seemed like an archetypal Saints player as a genius wayward forward.

 

[woota]

Carey's thing was running back with the flight.

And marking the ball with one arm. Him and gablett were the best ever at doing that.

Mckernan was by far the better player of those North sides in the 90s

LOL. Even Mckernan himself thinks you're full of it. Watch his interview with Mike Sheahan and listen to how he compares himself to Carey.

9:12 - 10:17

 

[Brutalitops]

And marking the ball with one arm. Him and gablett were the best ever at doing that.




LOL. Even Mckernan himself thinks you're full of it. Watch his interview with Mike Sheahan and listen to how he compares himself to Carey.

9:12 - 10:17

Did you expect him to say Carey was s**t? All players talk up their contemporaries. Especially so of their teammates and even moreso their captains. Mckernan was hands down the more important player to the 90s Roos.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

"When Ablett was switched to FF in 1993 he dominated the goal kicking" blah blah


Did you watch the 1989 finals series? Where was Ablett on the team sheet????


Ablett was always a forward. He had some games playing midfield when he started his career.

From the start of '93, Ablett played permanently at full forward, but I'm sure you knew that and are just being a dick.

Prior to '93, he played games as the designated ff but he played a hell of a lot more out at half forward with stints on a wing early days and the odd game in the middle when Diesel wasn't there.

 

[Tenny]

Another Coleman and it will be hard to ignore Jack Riewoldt in this conversation for GOAT forwards.

 

[Brutalitops]

From the start of '93, Ablett played permanently at full forward, but I'm sure you knew that and are just being a dick.

Prior to '93, he played games as the designated ff but he played a hell of a lot more out at half forward with stints on a wing early days and the odd game in the middle when Diesel wasn't there.

Im trying to remember, was it an injury that forced him permanently forward? I remember him taking a year off but i cant think of why prompted the move

 

[woota]

Did you expect him to say Carey was s**t? All players talk up their contemporaries. Especially so of their teammates and even moreso their captains. Mckernan was hands down the more important player to the 90s Roos.

No, I didn't expect him to say Carey was s**t. What he did say was that he never thought of himself in the same category as Wayne Carey. So what you're saying is, Mckernan actually believes he was a better player than Wayne Carey (the guy who won 4 North Melbourne B&F's in the 90s) and he just lied in that interview?

 

[Brutalitops]

No, I didn't expect him to say Carey was s**t. What he did say was that he never thought of himself in the same category as Wayne Carey. So what you're saying is, Mckernan actually believes he was a better player than Wayne Carey (the guy who won 4 North Melbourne B&F's in the 90s) and he just lied in that interview?

Again, what did you expect him to say? Sheehan is the biggest Carey utensil stroker of all time. Why you would cite anything from him is beyond me. I saw the North Melbourne sides of the 90s. They do not win the 96 flag without him

 

[woota]

Again, what did you expect him to say? Sheehan is the biggest Carey utensil stroker of all time. Why you would cite anything from him is beyond me. I saw the North Melbourne sides of the 90s. They do not win the 96 flag without him

So Carey's 7x All Australian selection, 4x B&F and 2x Leigh Matthew's Trophies in the 90s obviously don't stack up to Mckernan's 1 All Australian selection.