Politics So I guess when the s**t hits the fan, everyone's a socialist

[Gough]

In your face thread, those who are in favour of socialism / communism will get a real taste of it. My tip is once they get a taste of it and when we come out the other side they won't want it anymore. Just sayin.

You'd be in favour of just letting the economy wither on the vine? What steps would you take at the moment?

 

[Mofra]

In your face thread, those who are in favour of socialism / communism will get a real taste of it. My tip is once they get a taste of it and when we come out the other side they won't want it anymore. Just sayin.

Like what - universal healthcare, support for the unemployed and small business?
It's precisely what governments should do, especially with bond rates so low.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You'd be in favour of just letting the economy wither on the vine? What steps would you take at the moment?

Hmmm interesting, why would you think I'd be in favour letting the economy wither on a vine?

The measures we're about to undertake are necessary and not from a position of choice, you are aware of that right?

 

[Mofra]

Hmmm interesting, why would you think I'd be in favour letting the economy wither on a vine?

The measures we're about to undertake are necessary and not from a position of choice, you are aware of that right?

So you agree the current socialist measures taken by our government are necessary?
Kudos.

 

[EasternTiger]

In your face thread, those who are in favour of socialism / communism will get a real taste of it. My tip is once they get a taste of it and when we come out the other side they won't want it anymore. Just sayin.

They want to bask in the unattainable utopia that is communism, but the reality is they don't want to eat octopus 3 times a day.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Like what - universal healthcare, support for the unemployed and small business?
It's precisely what governments should do, especially with bond rates so low.

C'mon Mofra, you know that's not what I'm talking about.

This necessary move to more social order is just that, necessary. This is not a fault of capitalism, nor would it be a choice if these measures were not necessary for any left leaning or even moderate heads of state.

Perspective please.

 

[its free real estate]

Socialism with Peter Dutton head of the federal police. Utopia!

 

[Carringbush2010]

So you agree the current socialist measures taken by our government are necessary?
Kudos.

How is it not necessary? You are aware that once this is over all of those in this liberal western democratic society who are currently in favour of socialism / capatilism may change their tune about being 'ordered' right? They'll actually get a real feel for it and might not like it right?

 

[its free real estate]

Does this mean globalism and open borders is dead?

 

[Gough]

How is it not necessary? You are aware that once this is over all of those in this liberal western democratic society who are currently in favour of socialism / capatilism may change their tune about being 'ordered' right? They'll actually get a real feel for it and might not like it right?

Ordered to do what, compulsory lockdowns? That's a health response, nothing to do with the economic response to this which is distinctly left leaning.

 

[Mofra]

C'mon Mofra, you know that's not what I'm talking about.

This necessary move to more social order is just that, necessary. This is not a fault of capitalism, nor would it be a choice if these measures were not necessary for any left leaning or even moderate heads of state.

Perspective please.

It is however about the abandonment of the harsher forms of neoliberalism in times of crisis, as we've seen before.
Times of crisis often provide perspective, and in this circumstance I believe it has. There absolutely can be a role for government to provide a safety net for people in times of crisis.

And yes, governments do actually have a choice. They can take the road of austerity, or to stimulate the economy. I for one am glad governments are adopting stimulus measures despite many in those same governments criticising stimulus measures during previous crisis.

 

[FireKrakouer]

We recently got a taste of what it's like to live in an actual socialist country!

 

[Caesar]

I don’t think there’s ever been any significant support in Australia for ‘harsher forms of neoliberalism’. We aren’t America.

 

[Mofra]

Does this mean globalism and open borders is dead?

Not a change due to the interconnectedness of international trade.

e.g. We have comparatively oil refinement capacity in Australia and will still rely on Asian refineries.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It is however about the abandonment of the harsher forms of neoliberalism in times of crisis, as we've seen before.
Times of crisis often provide perspective, and in this circumstance I believe it has. There absolutely can be a role for government to provide a safety net for people in times of crisis.

And yes, governments do actually have a choice. They can take the road of austerity, or to stimulate the economy. I for one am glad governments are adopting stimulus measures despite many in those same governments criticising stimulus measures during previous crisis.

Define 'harsher terms of neoliberalism' . Did capitalism offend you or something? Is freedom of choice something you have an issue with?

 

[Mofra]

Define 'harsher terms of neoliberalism' . Did capitalism offend you or something? Is freedom of choice something you have an issue with?

Not at all, I like capitalism.
Harsher terms of neoliberalism = the proponents of austerity. Those who argue against universal healthcare. Just look up the IPA wishlist if you like.

Why would you use a term like "freedom of choice"? If you adopt the capability approach (Sen), then the social democratic model of capitalism arguably provides for the greatest freedom of choice for the greatest number of people.

 

[Freomaniac]

Does this mean globalism and open borders is dead?

Ross Lyon left the Fremantle dockers at the right time if thats the case lol

 

[its free real estate]

Not a change due to the interconnectedness of international trade.

e.g. We have comparatively oil refinement capacity in Australia and will still rely on Asian refineries.

Will countries be as keen to offshore all their manufacturing after this crisis, or will there be a return to onshoring?

 

[Freomaniac]

We recently got a taste of what it's like to live in an actual socialist country!



View attachment 845403

As empty as Fremantles and Gold coast trophy cabinet lol

 

[Mofra]

Will countries be as keen to offshore all their manufacturing after this crisis, or will there be a return to onshoring?

TBH I can't see much heavy industry returning to onshoring, the economies of scale in countries like China (or Bangladesh's clothing manufacturing zones) are just too great.

New and emerging industries may well have a chance, but for 'older' industries it just seems unlikely. Hopefully we do regain some focus on value-add industries that rely on more than just our ability to dig things up from the ground.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not at all, I like capitalism.
Harsher terms of neoliberalism = the proponents of austerity. Those who argue against universal healthcare. Just look up the IPA wishlist if you like.

Why would you use a term like "freedom of choice"? If you adopt the capability approach (Sen), then the social democratic model of capitalism arguably provides for the greatest freedom of choice for the greatest number of people.

What we're about to embark on is not 'freedom of choice' and yes it is a form of socialism, you do realize that socialism by it's very nature restricts 'freedom of choice' right? It's likely that some who are currently in favour of socialism / communism will not be in favour afterwards.

 

[its free real estate]

TBH I can't see much heavy industry returning to onshoring, the economies of scale in countries like China (or Bangladesh's clothing manufacturing zones) are just too great.

New and emerging industries may well have a chance, but for 'older' industries it just seems unlikely. Hopefully we do regain some focus on value-add industries that rely on more than just our ability to dig things up from the ground.

Nah. Either some level of heavy industry returns to the shores of countries like Australia via industry policy, or we continue to be undercut by China. There’s no middle path for “new and emerging technologies”. Pipe dream.

 

[Mofra]

What we're about to embark on is not 'freedom of choice' and yes it is a form of socialism, you do realize that socialism bu it's very nature restricts 'freedom of choice' right? It's likely that some who are currently in favour of socialism / communism will not be in favour afterwards.

That's your take on it, not mine.
I'd suggest there is more freedom of choice in having an economic safety net than having no safety net.

 

[EasternTiger]

We recently got a taste of what it's like to live in an actual socialist country!



View attachment 845403

When they said we are transitioning to a paperless society, they weren't joking.

It won't be long before we have to wipe our bums with gravel crushed from the revolutionary stones of the proletariat struggle against capitalism.

 

[Mofra]

Nah. Either some level of heavy industry returns to the shores of countries like Australia via industry policy, or we continue to be undercut by China. There’s no middle path for “new and emerging technologies”. Pipe dream.

What heavy industry do you think returns to Australia?
We're still exporting raw material for smelting.