Season 2020 & the money if cancelled

[RedV3x]

Thats because its big business, and competitive. American state governments give huge incentives to businesses to base themselves in those states, including sports teams.

I don't why people bang on about overseas models when the best model and certainly the best model for Australia exists here in Australia.
The U.S.A. is the same size as Australia but has 50 states. It has 300 cities over 100,000 population but only 10 cities > 1,000,000 population.
That leaves a lot of scrambling for a national league franchise.

In comparison Australia has 6 states and 5 cities > 1,000,000 in population.
Australian cities have maximum use of their stadia. Football every week in winter and cricket in summer. Plus cities have teams in multiple codes.
It is the the most efficient use of stadiums in the world and that's why Perth can afford $2 billion for a new stadium.
The NFL doesn't even have a true league (my our standards) it has a conference system based on 4 or 5 team groups.
They don't have the situation where a team flies out of Perth every week to the other side of the country.

 

[Kwality]

They probably are it’s most likely just not as drastic as some thought it would/should be though.

I found it interesting when the bale out deal with the NAB/ANZ was described as a receivership model. The right to appoint a Receiver is provided by law & the NAB/ANZ would have that right.
I've concluded it refers to the clubs & its because the AFL are not into tough decisions, aka Little Aths style. They will blame the Banks & I believe every club knows exactly when they need to ask for money leading up to commencement of any 2020 season/2021 even. That has legal ramnifications.
Are creditors not going to demand payment because its a footy club?

How drastic the action depends on when/if the game has 2020 or not.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't why people bang on about overseas models when the best model and certainly the best model for Australia exists here in Australia.
The U.S.A. is the same size as Australia but has 50 states. It has 300 cities over 100,000 population but only 10 cities > 1,000,000 population.
That leaves a lot of scrambling for a national league franchise.

In comparison Australia has 6 states and 5 cities > 1,000,000 in population.
Australian cities have maximum use of their stadia. Football every week in winter and cricket in summer. Plus cities have teams in multiple codes.
It is the the most efficient use of stadiums in the world and that's why Perth can afford $2 billion for a new stadium.
The NFL doesn't even have a true league (my our standards) it has a conference system based on 4 or 5 team groups.
They don't have the situation where a team flies out of Perth every week to the other side of the country.

Agree there is no model the AFL should try to follow because Australia is so unique.

America has a s**t load more cities then that over a million people, I imagine they are just not counting the metro area that is always included in Australian figures.

 

[jatz14]

I don't why people bang on about overseas models when the best model and certainly the best model for Australia exists here in Australia.
The U.S.A. is the same size as Australia but has 50 states. It has 300 cities over 100,000 population but only 10 cities > 1,000,000 population.
That leaves a lot of scrambling for a national league franchise.

In comparison Australia has 6 states and 5 cities > 1,000,000 in population.
Australian cities have maximum use of their stadia. Football every week in winter and cricket in summer. Plus cities have teams in multiple codes.
It is the the most efficient use of stadiums in the world and that's why Perth can afford $2 billion for a new stadium.
The NFL doesn't even have a true league (my our standards) it has a conference system based on 4 or 5 team groups.
They don't have the situation where a team flies out of Perth every week to the other side of the country.

All true, but America calculates the size of its cities differently, and generally includes less of the sprawl around cities in that cities quoted population. So a city that on paper is the size of Brisbane, or Perth, is generally much bigger.

 

[Kwality]

All true, but America calculates the size of its cities differently, and generally includes less of the sprawl around cities in that cities quoted population. So a city that on paper is the size of Brisbane, or Perth, is generally much bigger.

So the US comparison is irrelevant imho.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The U.S.A. is the same size as Australia but has 50 states. It has 300 cities over 100,000 population but only 10 cities > 1,000,000 population.
That leaves a lot of scrambling for a national league franchise.

In comparison Australia has 6 states and 5 cities > 1,000,000 in population.

If you are comparing apples with apples ie populations inside council/county boundaries then Australia has only 1 city of 1 million people, ie Brisbane.

There are are around 55 cities in USA with a metro population of 1 million or more compared to 6 cities in Oz with a metro population of 1 million people or more.

That's why the NFL has 32 teams spread out over 29 cities with metro populations greater than 1 million and a 30th city Green Bay which for historical purposes is based in a city of 300,000 but Milwaukee is about a 100 miles away with population of 1.5 million and Madison about 120 miles away and 600,000 people.

Boston is inside the borders of Suffolk County and that population is about 700,000 ie the approx size of the Gold Coast in its council borders. To say Boston is the equivalent of GC is just a misnomer.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

All true, but America calculates the size of its cities differently, and generally includes less of the sprawl around cities in that cities quoted population. So a city that on paper is the size of Brisbane, or Perth, is generally much bigger.

In the USA the cities/counties collect property taxes that pay to fund police, schools even some health services which in Australia the state governments pay for. So strict cities/counties population by boundaries are recorded as they are necessary as they fund services inside those boundaries. Also federal government payments for some services are determined by the amount of people inside county boundaries.

Property taxes of $10,000 to $15,000 for a normal house levied by counties is pretty standard. You can claim it as a tax deduction against your federal income tax (think its capped at $10,000 these days) and some states also allow you to deduct it against state income taxes.

But the USA census bureau (unlike the ABS the US has several different agencies that collect stats) collects and reports stats on metro areas populations, and what demographers call conglomerate statistics for a bigger reach of what constitutes as a city population.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

All true, but America calculates the size of its cities differently, and generally includes less of the sprawl around cities in that cities quoted population. So a city that on paper is the size of Brisbane, or Perth, is generally much bigger.

there is an easy workaround that in my experience works for most us cities

if you google Boston population, you get 700k because as you said they really only look at the city of Boston in that number

if you google greater Boston population, you get 4.9m because it includes the outer suburbs.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

All true, but America calculates the size of its cities differently, and generally includes less of the sprawl around cities in that cities quoted population. So a city that on paper is the size of Brisbane, or Perth, is generally much bigger.

The 384 "metropolitan statistical areas" of the United States[2]

Rank	Metropolitan statistical area	2018 estimate	2010 Census	% change	Encompassing combined statistical area
1​	New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA MSA	19,979,477	19,567,410	+2.11%	New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA
2​	Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA MSA	13,291,486	12,828,837	+3.61%	Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA CSA
3​	Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI MSA	9,498,716	9,461,105	+0.40%	Chicago-Naperville, IL-IN-WI CSA
4​	Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX MSA	7,539,711	6,426,214	+17.33%	Dallas-Fort Worth, TX-OK CSA
5​	Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX MSA	6,997,384	5,920,416	+18.19%	Houston-The Woodlands, TX CSA
6​	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA	6,249,950	5,636,232	+10.89%	Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA CSA
7​	Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL MSA	6,198,792	5,564,635	+11.40%	Miami-Port St. Lucie-Fort Lauderdale, FL CSA
8​	Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA	6,096,372	5,965,343	+2.20%	Philadelphia-Reading-Camden, PA-NJ-DE-MD CSA
9​	Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA MSA	5,949,951	5,286,728	+12.55%	Atlanta–Athens-Clarke County–Sandy Springs, GA-AL CSA
10​	Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH MSA	4,875,390	4,552,402	+7.09%	Boston-Worcester-Providence, MA-RI-NH-CT CSA
11​	Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, AZ MSA	4,857,962	4,192,887	+15.86%	Phoenix-Mesa, AZ CSA
12​	San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA MSA	4,729,484	4,335,391	+9.09%	San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA
13​	Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA	4,622,361	4,224,851	+9.41%	Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA CSA
14​	Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI MSA	4,326,442	4,296,250	+0.70%	Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor, MI CSA
15​	Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA	3,939,363	3,439,809	+14.52%	Seattle-Tacoma, WA CSA
16​	Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI MSA	3,629,190	3,348,859	+8.37%	Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI CSA
17​	San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA	3,343,364	3,095,313	+8.01%
18​	Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA	3,142,663	2,783,243	+12.91%
19​	Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO MSA	2,932,415	2,543,482	+15.29%	Denver-Aurora, CO CSA
20​	St. Louis, MO-IL MSA	2,805,465	2,787,701	+0.64%	St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL CSA
21​	Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA	2,802,789	2,710,489	+3.41%	Washington-Baltimore-Arlington, DC-MD-VA-WV-PA CSA
22​	Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL MSA	2,572,693	2,134,411	+20.53%	Orlando-Lakeland-Deltona, FL CSA
23​	Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC MSA	2,569,213	2,217,012	+15.89%	Charlotte-Concord, NC-SC CSA
24​	San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX MSA	2,518,036	2,142,508	+17.53%	San Antonio-New Braunfels-Pearsall, TX CSA
25​	Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA	2,478,810	2,226,009	+11.36%	Portland-Vancouver-Salem, OR-WA CSA
26​	Sacramento–Roseville–Folsom, CA MSA	2,345,210	2,149,127	+9.12%	Sacramento-Roseville, CA CSA
27​	Pittsburgh, PA MSA	2,324,743	2,356,285	−1.34%	Pittsburgh-New Castle-Weirton, PA-OH-WV CSA
28​	Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA	2,231,647	1,951,269	+14.37%	Las Vegas-Henderson, NV-AZ CSA
29​	Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA	2,190,209	2,114,580	+3.58%	Cincinnati-Wilmington-Maysville, OH-KY-IN CSA
30​	Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA	2,168,316	1,716,289	+26.34%
31​	Kansas City, MO-KS MSA	2,143,651	2,009,342	+6.68%	Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS CSA
32​	Columbus, OH MSA	2,106,541	1,901,974	+10.76%	Columbus-Marion-Zanesville, OH CSA
33​	Cleveland-Elyria, OH MSA	2,057,009	2,077,240	−0.97%	Cleveland-Akron-Canton, OH CSA
34​	Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson, IN MSA	2,048,703	1,887,877	+8.52%	Indianapolis-Carmel-Muncie, IN CSA
35​	San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA	1,999,107	1,836,911	+8.83%	San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA
36​	Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA	1,930,961	1,670,890	+15.56%	Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro, TN CSA
37​	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA	1,728,733	1,676,822	+3.10%	Virginia Beach-Norfolk, VA-NC CSA
38​	Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA	1,621,337	1,600,852	+1.28%	Boston-Worcester-Providence, MA-RI-NH-CT CSA
39​	Milwaukee-Waukesha, WI MSA	1,576,113	1,555,908	+1.30%	Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI CSA
40​	Jacksonville, FL MSA	1,534,701	1,345,596	+14.05%	Jacksonville-St. Marys-Palatka, FL-GA CSA
41​	Oklahoma City, OK MSA	1,396,445	1,252,987	+11.45%	Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK CSA
42​	Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA	1,362,540	1,130,490	+20.53%	Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC CSA
43​	Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA	1,350,620	1,324,829	+1.95%	Memphis-Forrest City, TN-MS-AR CSA
44​	Richmond, VA MSA	1,306,172	1,208,101	+8.12%
45​	Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN MSA	1,297,310	1,235,708	+4.99%	Louisville/Jefferson County–Elizabethtown–Bardstown, KY-IN CSA
46​	New Orleans-Metairie, LA MSA	1,270,399	1,189,866	+6.77%	New Orleans-Metairie-Hammond, LA-MS CSA
47​	Salt Lake City, UT MSA	1,222,540	1,087,873	+12.38%	Salt Lake City-Provo-Orem, UT CSA
48​	Hartford-East Hartford-Middletown, CT MSA	1,206,300	1,212,381	−0.50%	Hartford-East Hartford, CT CSA
49​	Birmingham-Hoover, AL MSA	1,151,801	1,128,047	+2.11%	Birmingham-Hoover-Talladega, AL CSA
50​	Buffalo-Cheektowaga, NY MSA	1,130,152	1,135,509	−0.47%	Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Olean, NY CSA
51​	Rochester, NY MSA	1,071,082	1,079,671	−0.80%	Rochester-Batavia-Seneca Falls, NY CSA
52​	Grand Rapids-Kentwood, MI MSA	1,069,405	988,938	+8.14%	Grand Rapids-Kentwood-Muskegon, MI CSA
53​	Tucson, AZ MSA	1,039,073	980,263	+6.00%	Tucson-Nogales, AZ CSA

 

[Kwality]

So much for American cities v Aus, pleeeze !!

 

[RedV3x]

If you are comparing apples with apples ie populations

Then i'd just use a convenient source like wiki. Yes there are a lot of big cities in the U.S.A.

 

[RedV3x]

The 384 "metropolitan statistical areas" of the United States

Really. I thought we were discussing football.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Then i'd just use a convenient source like wiki. Yes there are a lot of big cities in the U.S.A.

Maybe you should, so that you don't make incorrect statements.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Really. I thought we were discussing football.

we are. the discussion is about the cities comparative ability to support teams, and comparing "city" data USA to Australia is misleading

 

[RedV3x]

we are. the discussion is about the cities comparative ability to support teams, and comparing "city" data USA to Australia is misleading

So you think the average football fan doesn't know that there is a lot of "big cities' in the U.S.A. and only 5 in Australia.
The football model is definitely different in Australia because we lack the number of "big cities" to have the flawed American model.

 

[RedV3x]

Maybe you should, so that you don't make incorrect statements.

What incorrect statements? if you have a problem take it up with Wiki FFS and move on.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What incorrect statements? if you have a problem take it up with Wiki FFS and move on.

You compared council boundaries to metro boundaries that is incorrect.

 

[RedV3x]

You compared council boundaries to metro boundaries that is incorrect.

FFS. All I did was google "How many US cities have a population over 1 million?"

and this was the result .

"According to data from the US Census Bureau, a total of 10 US cities have a population that has surpassed the 1 million milestone. Of these 10 cities, California and Texas account for 60%, with each being home to three cities each that have a population of over 1 million."

The fact that you reckon there is a great number more cities only reinforces what i said in that
The AFL model is completely different to that of the NFL when it comes teams-to-cities distribution.
The AFL model is completely different to that of the NFL when it comes teams ownership.
The AFL model is is simlar to that of the NFL when it comes teams immobility.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

FFS. All I did was google "How many US cities have a population over 1 million?"

and this was the result .

"According to data from the US Census Bureau, a total of 10 US cities have a population that has surpassed the 1 million milestone. Of these 10 cities, California and Texas account for 60%, with each being home to three cities each that have a population of over 1 million."

The fact that you reckon there is a great number more cities only reinforces what i said in that
The AFL model is completely different to that of the NFL when it comes teams-to-cities distribution.
The AFL model is completely different to that of the NFL when it comes teams ownership.
The AFL model is is simlar to that of the NFL when it comes teams immobility.

In that case, Australia may have only one, pretty sure Brisbane City Council is the only city in Australia with over one million punters in it

 

[RedV3x]

In that case, Australia may have only one, pretty sure Brisbane City Council is the only city in Australia with over one million punters in it

This shows otherwise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population
"This list of Australian cities by population provides rankings of Australian cities according to various systems defined by the Australian Bureau of Statistics."
FFS MOVE ON.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

This shows otherwise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population
"This list of Australian cities by population provides rankings of Australian cities according to various systems defined by the Australian Bureau of Statistics."
FFS MOVE ON.

you're not comparing apples with apples, because how the USA and Australia define a city is completely different

 

[RedV3x]

Hypothetical question. If W.A. or S.A. are able to relax restrictions before the East coast and the WAFL and SANFL are restarted what are the implications?
Will Australians re-discover the second tier competitions? Will networks offer a good media package? Will ESPN pick up WAFL and SANFL ahead of AFL?
Will that be enough of a football fix?

 

[mianfei]

Hypothetical question. If W.A. or S.A. are able to relax restrictions before the East Coast and the WAFL and SANFL are restarted what are the implications?

Will Australians re-discover the second tier competitions? Will networks offer a good media package? Will ESPN pick up WAFL and SANFL ahead of AFL?

Will that be enough of a football fix?

I’d imagine that if this be so – and it is not implausible – then there would certainly be restrictions on which players can play, so that Port Adelaide Magpies and the reserve teams of Adelaide and West Coast cannot stockpile top-tier AFL players. ESPN might pick up on the WAFL and SANFL in those circumstances, but television viewers would most likely recognise that with none of the top stars it was not the same quality of play as the AFL historically offered.

As a sort of sidelight, what if New South Wales and Queensland have to maintain restrictions longer than the southern and western states – by no means an inconceivable possibility. Could the AFL resume without the Lions, Suns, Giants and Swans? If it did, would those four financially poor and insecure clubs actually return to the league in a later season? Would it prove difficult for them missing even a shortened season?

 

[RedV3x]

As a sort of sidelight, what if New South Wales and Queensland have to maintain restrictions longer than the southern and western states – by no means an inconceivable possibility.

Then you'd do what the NRL mentioned with N.Z. and have 14 day isolation prior to commencement.

 

[Chuckie2]

Eddie was saying on AFL 360 that Collingwood's membership sales had spiked up in the last few days.

So maybe some supporters want to try and help their clubs during these testing times!

Well of course collingwood supporters would be buying extra memberships at the moment especially with all their dole payments being doubled at the moment