The state of the game

[hamohawk1]

Just finished watching the quarters over the Wuhan Open for the past couple of hours. This is the first time I've watched tennis outside of the slams in years, used to be a fanatic and played socially until 5 or so years ago but then just lost a bit of passion and have only started to get into it again, including playing socially (wish i never left!).

Few things id love others thoughts on:
- Crowd seemed woeful. Is this a normal thing for a WTA/ATP event?
- Is the continued dominance of rafa/ fed/ nadal/ serena dissipating interest?
- How is participation at the grass roots level of the game?


Whilst it seems the Australian open does do real well crowd, wise and coverage in the papers it seems the only time we hear about it otherwise is when Nick is playing up, or Ash is doing well (love the way she operates).

Would love to also hear how people think the game is going to go at a national and worldwide level over the next 10-15 years. I often hear golf is diminishing rapidly due to low course usage, but always thing tennis is a much more viewer friendly, easier to participate, key exposure in the summer months.

 

[vaughany]

Stick with it.
The circuit will be buzzing again around ATP & WTA Finals time in a month or so.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[JamisonRun40]

I keep going to and fro from ladies to mens. At the moment I'm into the WTA and have been loving the WTA Asia swing as you get to see new players coming through and can pick up some points at the end of the season.

On the men's side I wish the younger guys would break through to win a major. Maybe Medev will be that player he seems to have the mental capacity unlike Zerev and Tsispa although Tsispas is a couple of years younger and might take a little bit longer to mature. I'm ok with the older guys still winning the major tournaments.

 

[Roobs321]

I get that the lingering dominance has a bit of a negative impact. The difference is that the women have great depth right now (which they hadn't had since the mid 00s), whereas the men haven't for several years now (arguably since the little 4 solidified behind the big 4).

Medvedev's 2018-19 reminds me considerably of Novak circa 2006-07 (albeit a little older). He'll break through at the AO next year. The scary contingent of young women coming through at the moment promises a golden age for the WTA.

 

[Pedantic]

The Post-US Open tournaments are always dull. Really the Finals should be now and then actually let the players have two months off.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

On the participation side, I think it is waning. People would rather go to the gym for an hour here or there than set aside a whole afternoon for tennis. They way our lives are structured these days it's hard to commit to regular sport. Like you said, golf is also suffering. Soccer always boasts about booming participation rates but that only seems to be at the junior level as far as I can see.

On a professional level, it all feels so manipulated these days. I don't mean fixed as in the results, just the whole presentation of it. I agree with you, when I watch the smaller tournaments I am shocked at the small (if any) crowds. I think a lot of the professional sports are suffering, the governing bodies are all killing the goose that laid the golden egg IMO.

 

[BobbyMorri]

On the participation side, I think it is waning. People would rather go to the gym for an hour here or there than set aside a whole afternoon for tennis. They way our lives are structured these days it's hard to commit to regular sport. Like you said, golf is also suffering. Soccer always boasts about booming participation rates but that only seems to be at the junior level as far as I can see.

On a professional level, it all feels so manipulated these days. I don't mean fixed as in the results, just the whole presentation of it. I agree with you, when I watch the smaller tournaments I am shocked at the small (if any) crowds. I think a lot of the professional sports are suffering, the governing bodies are all killing the goose that laid the golden egg IMO.

Tennis is all about the names and not the sport itself. It seems that way in a tournament like the US Open especially. The big 3 and Serena have really enforced this even more.

Don't get me wrong. Tennis big names have always sold. It just seems that it has got even starker. It isn't just an issue with Tennis. The big clubs in Soccer continue to get richer and richer, leaving the small ones behind. the AFL is growing, yet grassroots clubs are dying faster than ever as people do other things.

I worry for sport in 10-20 years. I worry that it is going to be all about the money at the top end and forgetting the real reason we watch and play.

 

[BobbyMorri]

The Post-US Open tournaments are always dull. Really the Finals should be now and then actually let the players have two months off.

dont turn off now, we have the NEW DAVIS CUP* after the season. and then 5 weeks later, the NEW ATP CUP, which is basically the same thing but with ranking points.

 

[Hamingja]

On the participation side, I think it is waning. People would rather go to the gym for an hour here or there than set aside a whole afternoon for tennis. They way our lives are structured these days it's hard to commit to regular sport. Like you said, golf is also suffering. Soccer always boasts about booming participation rates but that only seems to be at the junior level as far as I can see.

When you drive from Adelaide to Melbourne there is a tennis court in every small town. Never did I see anyone using them and I did the drive a lot.

As far as the pros go, I actually like the evenness around the next gen from both tours over the big names, but that's probably a lot to do with me betting on it.

 

[hamohawk1]

When you drive from Adelaide to Melbourne there is a tennis court in every small town. Never did I see anyone using them and I did the drive a lot.

As far as the pros go, I actually like the evenness around the next gen from both tours over the big names, but that's probably a lot to do with me betting on it.

I think the sport participation wise was huge until the mid-late 00's. For me similar to golf and cricket the technology of the racquet (clubs, bat) make it a bit dull too. Seems so easy these days to hit a ball to the right place with a certain string or racquet as opposed to pure technique

 

[CCollingwoodFCS]

Perhaps TV rights are more important than attendance.

 

[hamohawk1]

Has anyone transitioned from tennis to squash? I've recently started. Has only been positive, being much cheaper to rent a court than your local, equipment being cheaper if not free to hire. Struggle to find a court near me lately thats under 20-25 per hour, + needing equipment.

 

[JackNah_8]

Talking about the state of the game, I wonder how the corona crisis will impact tennis. I think this will hurt the WTA, lack of funding, revenue, crowds, and sponsors.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Talking about the state of the game, I wonder how the corona crisis will impact tennis. I think this will hurt the WTA, lack of funding, revenue, crowds, and sponsors.

think the hurt will be evenly spread.

Heard they thinking of pushing the season into December. If that happens, it would be an unusual Australian tennis summer to start with.

 

[hamohawk1]

Depends how much the mens game can leverage itself back commercially.

 

[JackNah_8]

Depends how much the mens game can leverage itself back commercially.

They will have to rely on the top 3 to promote the game

 

[hamohawk1]

Seeing Fed on twitter questioning if the big questions need to be asked, including merging the WTA and ATP. How long would that lost before the mens tour views the financials for womens tennis and nopes out.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Seeing Fed on twitter questioning if the big questions need to be asked, including merging the WTA and ATP. How long would that lost before the mens tour views the financials for womens tennis and nopes out.

It is a huge power play by Fed. When Fed talks, people listen. For people who havent seen the tweets.



Halep and Kvitova has liked the proposal. Bille Jean King as well. We all know what Andy Murray will say. Rafa


Its Novak and his cronies at the ATP who might oppose this. they have been all about more ATP revenue and it was Novak would did a coup on the last head of the ATP. That forced Nadal and Federer back to the player council to oppose Novak.

there is a lot of money in China....The gap is getting smaller by the year(thanks Li Na). But regardless, i don't see that they will suddenly merge the tournaments together and all the prize money from those to be equal. More of standardisation of rankings, TV rights and rules. Which can only be a good thing. Heck, tennis needs a lot more of it.

At least we have something to talk about

 

[matt_897]

Who knows how these tournaments will look when we get back? Whether sponsors are still going to be putting up money for these events. The calendar may end up looking a bit different.

 

[hamohawk1]

They're just on different scales. You look at a Mens day 2 match on RLA is likely to get more spectators than a Quarter / Semi of the womens.

 

[BobbyMorri]

They're just on different scales. You look at a Mens day 2 match on RLA is likely to get more spectators than a Quarter / Semi of the womens.

They are in the ballpark though. It is not a massive gap you see in every other sport. And just because the men earn greater revenue, doesn't mean there are no benefits to the ATP of this. marketing, sponsorships and just a greater centralisation of governing. they would be able to take on the ITF and the grand slams as a collective unit. The ATP is about to enter some rough years with no big 3. I think it should happen.

But it really depends on how they split the revenue. If they go 50/50, I can't see the ATP going for it. If it to the ATP favour, I can't see how the WTA will go for it.

 

[Caesar]

They are in the ballpark though. It is not a massive gap you see in every other sport. And just because the men earn greater revenue, doesn't mean there are no benefits to the ATP of this. marketing, sponsorships and just a greater centralisation of governing. they would be able to take on the ITF and the grand slams as a collective unit. The ATP is about to enter some rough years with no big 3. I think it should happen.

When one entity earns twice as much revenue as the other (as it is with the ATP and WTA) any proposed 'merger' is effectively a takeover.

I think this is something that will definitely provide immediate benefits and as a result I am not surprised that corporate tennis and top players are in favour of it. I think the longer-term ramifications for women and lower-ranked men are potentially more negative, as they will have much less of a voice in any new entity.

But it really depends on how they split the revenue. If they go 50/50, I can't see the ATP going for it. If it to the ATP favour, I can't see how the WTA will go for it.

It seems like this is mostly a case of the ATP bailing out the WTA financially, and as a result I would expect the WTA to get screwed.

 

[JackNah_8]

very direct comments from Thiem, not sure what happened here:

 

[hamohawk1]

very direct comments from Thiem, not sure what happened here:

I get the top players generate a high % of the income, but its crucial for the future of the game the players ranked outside of the top 100 get a fairer slice

 

[Leeda]

They will have to rely on the top 3 to promote the game

unfortunately only the top three or four will profit from the game. every other player will lose out over time.. sad..