List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Eddie19]

I like the idea of Brad Crouch and Zach Williams as FA's.

We would have a fair bit of competition for them though.
One thing we do have though is cap space due to not using all of ours the last couple of years, so we can go over by 10%.

If we could get one of these and then target trading in Papley or Wines with our 1st pick etc.

One of Crouch/Williams and Papley/Wines is realistic but to get 3, I don't think will happen.
Getting one of those guys would help us haha.

 

[Gethelred]

I would go after Viney before Crouch and Wines.

Would be the near impossible combination of overpriced (as Melbourne rate him) and worse with the ball than either of them.

 

[smashbox gill]

I like the idea of Brad Crouch and Zach Williams as FA's.

We would have a fair bit of competition for them though.
One thing we do have though is cap space due to not using all of ours the last couple of years, so we can go over by 10%.

If we could get one of these and then target trading in Papley or Wines with our 1st pick etc.

One of Crouch/Williams and Papley/Wines is realistic but to get 3, I don't think will happen.
Getting one of those guys would help us haha.

I wouldnt be risking $700k+ on brad crouch until i see at least 1 more injury free year. Not worth the risk imo.

 

[Bluebag13]

I wouldnt be risking $700k+ on brad crouch until i see at least 1 more injury free year. Not worth the risk imo.

Hasnt missed a game so far this year





... sorry i couldnt help myself

 

[murphster]

It would be good if the Spirit of Carlton boys could somehow kick in to keep Diesel involved with coaching our young midfielders.

As I’ve said in another post somewhere Diesel actually started by Cripps and Dow asking him for help outside of the club so no reason they couldn’t pay him themselves for his help/advice.

 

[murphster]

Why would list sizes be reduced to 35? Boggles the mind, it would have to be combined with shorter game times, to allow for less liklihood of injury to the core 22. Which... may be what the AFL wants, but it's ******* not what I want or what any punter wants.

Bring back 22 aside, full length quarters. Bring back the attrition, bring back the wars, bring back the best rising to the top. 16 minute quarters is very plastic football.

It's half a year of eocnomic downturn, surely that doesn't mean throw the toys out of the cot moving forward.

Not sure if I misheard but just watched Andrew Fagan the Crows CEO on Footy Classified and I’m pretty sure he said that they have already told 8 players that they weren’t in there future plans, if that’s the case then maybe they are looking at cutting lists deeper than I thought would be feasible.

 

[ferrisb]

Not sure if I misheard but just watched Andrew Fagan the Crows CEO on Footy Classified and I’m pretty sure he said that they have already told 8 players that they weren’t in there future plans.

Pretty sure that still leaves ~36 players that don't want to play for the Crows...

 

[Mezzoculo]

Not sure if I misheard but just watched Andrew Fagan the Crows CEO on Footy Classified and I’m pretty sure he said that they have already told 8 players that they weren’t in there future plans, if that’s the case then maybe they are looking at cutting lists deeper than I thought would be feasible.

According to fox footy, Fagan came out and clarified he was referring to 8 non-playing staff.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I did a chart comparison of AFL draft pick points against average games played and it basically showed that the slope of points is a fair bit steeper than the games played.
So in terms of getting a games played return for draft points you would generally be better off "trading down".

 

[murphster]

According to fox footy, Fagan came out and clarified he was referring to 8 non-playing staff.

So he did say it but he misspoke, fair enough.

 

[murphster]

I did a chart comparison of AFL draft pick points against average games played and it basically showed that the slope of points is a fair bit steeper than the games played.
So in terms of getting a games played return for draft points you would generally be better off "trading down".

Yeah pretty sure that’s the same conclusion that some NFL clubs in the States have arrived at.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

A hypothetical....repeat, hypothetical....

At the end of 2020, Jacky Russell has given Charlie the all clear, and says his knee shouldn't give him any more problems in his career. Back into full training preseason 2021.

In the meantime, Jeremy Cameron out of contract, wants to come back to Victoria, and selects the Blues as his choice club. GWS support him, but will only do so with a one-on-one swap for Charlie, who is now fully fit and ready to fire.

Deal or no deal?

 

[Accidental genius]

A hypothetical....repeat, hypothetical....

At the end of 2020, Jacky Russell has given Charlie the all clear, and says his knee shouldn't give him any more problems in his career. Back into full training preseason 2021.

In the meantime, Jeremy Cameron out of contract, wants to come back to Victoria, and selects the Blues as his choice club. GWS support him, but will only do so with a one-on-one swap for Charlie, who is now fully fit and ready to fire.

Deal or no deal?

View attachment 870287

No deal. Curnow has much more X factor and athleticism imo. If his knee holds after recovery oppo’s should watchout.

Also, I do not want another gws player. I’m yet to see one of them excel apart from plowman who tries hard and has been ok.

 

[murphster]

A hypothetical....repeat, hypothetical....

At the end of 2020, Jacky Russell has given Charlie the all clear, and says his knee shouldn't give him any more problems in his career. Back into full training preseason 2021.

In the meantime, Jeremy Cameron out of contract, wants to come back to Victoria, and selects the Blues as his choice club. GWS support him, but will only do so with a one-on-one swap for Charlie, who is now fully fit and ready to fire.

Deal or no deal?

View attachment 870287

No deal, if Charlie can fully recover he will be a once in a generation type player for us he has all the tools to dominate the competition for the next 10 years, wouldn’t trade a fully fit Charlie for anyone.

Plus the Curnow genes are to good to pass up all those future father son options as well.

 

[Gethelred]

No deal. Curnow has much more X factor and athleticism imo. If his knee holds after recovery oppo’s should watchout.

Also, I do not want another gws player. I’m yet to see one of them excel apart from plowman who tries hard and has been ok.

... more x factor than Cameron?

I'm terribly sorry, and Charlie's potential is huge, but you're positively off your rocker if you think that he's got more x factor or athleticism than Jeremy Cameron does. On consistency and randomness, Jeremy Cameron has him covered, at the same age and at present. In his fourth season in the AFL, Cameron had kicked 60+ goals in a season twice, with both other years being 29 goals; Charlie's best total is 34.

If the Giants came to us with that kind of a deal - pending finances, as a contract Cameron sized would take a chunk out of whatever warchest you would have on hand - you make it and start skipping.

No deal, if Charlie can fully recover he will be a once in a generation type player for us he has all the tools to dominate the competition for the next 10 years, wouldn’t trade a fully fit Charlie for anyone.

Plus the Curnow genes are to good to pass up all those future father son options as well.

... so you're turning down a once in a generation player (Cameron) for someone who if they fully recover (and, let's be honest, achieve their potential, because he's not there yet) could be a once in a generation player?

That's not logical to me.

Edit: for reference, because it behooves us to actually discuss this properly if we're going to do it at all...

Charlie Curnow of the Carlton Blues Career AFL Stats

Charlie Curnow of Carlton Blues career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

Jeremy Cameron of the Geelong Cats Career AFL Stats

Jeremy Cameron of Geelong Cats career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

 

[BlueJet]

A hypothetical....repeat, hypothetical....

At the end of 2020, Jacky Russell has given Charlie the all clear, and says his knee shouldn't give him any more problems in his career. Back into full training preseason 2021.

In the meantime, Jeremy Cameron out of contract, wants to come back to Victoria, and selects the Blues as his choice club. GWS support him, but will only do so with a one-on-one swap for Charlie, who is now fully fit and ready to fire.

Deal or no deal?

View attachment 870287

Cameron is one of the top few forwards in the comp.
Charlie despite his injury concerns may have the potential to get to the same level.
Given that our side is a couple of years off genuine contention, age would be the only overruling factor IMO.

While we're at it, Bont or SPS?

 

[Accidental genius]

... more x factor than Cameron?

I'm terribly sorry, and Charlie's potential is huge, but you're positively off your rocker if you think that he's got more x factor or athleticism than Jeremy Cameron does. On consistency and randomness, Jeremy Cameron has him covered, at the same age and at present. In his fourth season in the AFL, Cameron had kicked 60+ goals in a season twice, with both other years being 29 goals; Charlie's best total is 34.

If the Giants came to us with that kind of a deal - pending finances, as a contract Cameron sized would take a chunk out of whatever warchest you would have on hand - you make it and start skipping.

... so you're turning down a once in a generation player (Cameron) for someone who if they fully recover (and, let's be honest, achieve their potential, because he's not there yet) could be a once in a generation player?

That's not logical to me.

Edit: for reference, because it behooves us to actually discuss this properly if we're going to do it at all...

Charlie Curnow of the Carlton Blues Career AFL Stats

Charlie Curnow of Carlton Blues career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

Jeremy Cameron of the Geelong Cats Career AFL Stats

Jeremy Cameron of Geelong Cats career AFL statistics

www.footywire.com

If Charlie did not have the knee injuries he would have kicked more goals. Plus Cameron has had the advantage of balls being delivered to him by a star studerred midfield group. For me the decision to keep Charlie is easy. Charlie is more agile, better leap and much more of an excitement machine than Cameron.

 

[Gethelred]

If Charlie did not have the knee injuries he would have kicked more goals. Plus Cameron has had the advantage of balls being delivered to him by a star studerred midfield group. For me the decision to keep Charlie is easy. Charlie is more agile, better leap and much more of an excitement machine than Cameron.

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

These are the first 4 years of the Giants existence; these four years also happen to coincide with Jeremy Cameron's first four years as a player.

While I cannot argue that their midfield always had potential and star power, they also won 3 games in their first 2 years and 6 in their third. Cameron's first 60+ tally came in the year in which they won a single game.

And how on EARTH do Charlie's injuries work in his favour if we're talking a straight swap?

Jeremy Cameron is a transformative forward; he's difficult to apply hard fixtures to what kind of position he plays. He's tall and decent overhead, so he's a CHF/FF; he's agile, well balanced, and dangerous when it hits the ground, so he's a flanker/small forward; he possesses the keenest goalsense of almost any player in the AFL currently. The downsides are, he's very prone to getting suspended and he's very much an x-factor player who could turn in a 0 goal performance or a 10 goal haul, but bear in mind despite that he still averages twice as many goals a game as Charlie does.

I reiterate; if GWS make that offer to us, we take it and whistle.

 

[DangerousD]

A hypothetical....repeat, hypothetical....

At the end of 2020, Jacky Russell has given Charlie the all clear, and says his knee shouldn't give him any more problems in his career. Back into full training preseason 2021.

In the meantime, Jeremy Cameron out of contract, wants to come back to Victoria, and selects the Blues as his choice club. GWS support him, but will only do so with a one-on-one swap for Charlie, who is now fully fit and ready to fire.

Deal or no deal?

View attachment 870287

considering one is out of contract and a FA and the other is a required contracted player, then no deal.

If Cameron wants to leave GWS then he leaves, they have very little bargaining power.

if he chooses us and we have cap space, then come on down and say hello to our new full time ruckman Harry McKay.

 

[ferrisb]

Sure Cameron is very good, but Charlie could be anything!

I mean he could even end up as good as Cameron....

 

[DangerousD]

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

These are the first 4 years of the Giants existence; these four years also happen to coincide with Jeremy Cameron's first four years as a player.

While I cannot argue that their midfield always had potential and star power, they also won 3 games in their first 2 years and 6 in their third. Cameron's first 60+ tally came in the year in which they won a single game.

And how on EARTH do Charlie's injuries work in his favour if we're talking a straight swap?

Jeremy Cameron is a transformative forward; he's difficult to apply hard fixtures to what kind of position he plays. He's tall and decent overhead, so he's a CHF/FF; he's agile, well balanced, and dangerous when it hits the ground, so he's a flanker/small forward; he possesses the keenest goalsense of almost any player in the AFL currently. The downsides are, he's very prone to getting suspended and he's very much an x-factor player who could turn in a 0 goal performance or a 10 goal haul, but bear in mind despite that he still averages twice as many goals a game as Charlie does.

I reiterate; if GWS make that offer to us, we take it and whistle.

Porque no los dos?

 

[Accidental genius]

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2012 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2013 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2014 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

GWS Giants 2015 AFL Matches

www.footywire.com

These are the first 4 years of the Giants existence; these four years also happen to coincide with Jeremy Cameron's first four years as a player.

While I cannot argue that their midfield always had potential and star power, they also won 3 games in their first 2 years and 6 in their third. Cameron's first 60+ tally came in the year in which they won a single game.

And how on EARTH do Charlie's injuries work in his favour if we're talking a straight swap?

Jeremy Cameron is a transformative forward; he's difficult to apply hard fixtures to what kind of position he plays. He's tall and decent overhead, so he's a CHF/FF; he's agile, well balanced, and dangerous when it hits the ground, so he's a flanker/small forward; he possesses the keenest goalsense of almost any player in the AFL currently. The downsides are, he's very prone to getting suspended and he's very much an x-factor player who could turn in a 0 goal performance or a 10 goal haul, but bear in mind despite that he still averages twice as many goals a game as Charlie does.

I reiterate; if GWS make that offer to us, we take it and whistle.

You've backed up with good facts but still I would not swap. I see awkwardness in cameron's play which does not appeal to me as Curnow does. I also do not like his personality. Charlie is more fluent with ball in hand, much more bubbly personality (and likeable by his team mates) and he can kick bags of goals.

 

[ferrisb]

It's a great hypothetical, Bamboo Harvester.

The known elite forward vs the younger, potential superstar.

I can see both sides of the equation, but I'd take Cameron, without too much hesitation.

Admittedly, I am more of a bird in the hand guy. I can see Charlie taking over games like a modern-day Kouta one day, but I can't pass up the guy who has so many more runs on the board.

I dare say 90-95% of non-Carlton fans would choose Cameron over Charlie if given the choice at the end of 2020....

 

[Gethelred]

Porque no los dos?

See, I think Cameron and Harry can work in the same forward line, with Charlie roaming between the arches (or vice versa; I'm not getting into the Charlie/Harry CHF conversation again!) but what it would do is spell the end for Kennedy, Casboult and McGovern, possibly TDK.

In any case, both would be unworkable inside 5 years; you're spending more than 2/3's of the salary cap on your KPF's. Charlie's a spearhead alone, imagine his production as a second tall? Let alone Harry's as a third. One of them gets an offer from somewhere else, and it simply couldn't be sustained.

 

[Accidental genius]

It's a great hypothetical, Bamboo Harvester.

The known elite forward vs the younger, potential superstar.

I can see both sides of the equation, but I'd take Cameron, without too much hesitation.

Admittedly, I am more of a bird in the hand guy. I can Charlie taking over games like a modern-day Kouta one day, but I can't pass up the guy who has so many more runs on the board.

I dare say 90-95% of non-Carlton fans would choose Cameron over Charlie if given the choice at the end of 2020....

boooo!