Play Nice Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

[Mootsy]

Jordan by a long way!! The most iconic athlete in Sports, let alone basketball.

One game alone, in 1987 had enough hilights that many players would struggle to show in their career, that's not just 1987, that covers many years for Jordan. A genuine hilights film for MJ would go for 10 hours and probably a lot longer.

This is just one game, from 88'

 

[Mootsy]

Also, as great as Lebron is and his impressive stats, he just doesn't have the thousands of memorable plays that MJ has, let alone all those insane finals records MJ holds.

In redgards to defence in that era. It's not so much the positioning of players, but it was way more physical and more hustle before a foul was called. Just look at Detroit!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

positioning > physicality

 

[Mootsy]

positioning > physicality

Yes of course, but it's very sterile to watch without hustle play when everything is called a foul.

 

[FreoRicci]

Talk about sequences in sports.
Every sports has had them. Iconic, never will be forgetting.
Probably the most iconic is Chicago vs Utah 1998- Game 6. That’s MJ’s last minute for Chicago.
Ridiculous.
Stockton hits a 3 pointer- Utah leads 86-83

Time out- MJ has the ball with 41.9 seconds left. Has to score, he does with a lay up.
Bulls need a stop. MJ is gassed but he’s so intelligent, stying in the weak side of Malone in the post and snatches the steal.

19 seconds left, get out of the way, MJ iso and the rest is history. Hits the last shot and Chicago win 87-86.

Now, fast forward to 2016 NBA Finals, Game 7. Golden State 73-9.
Andre Iguodala gets the rebound with 1.55 left and drives up court, passes to Curry who then bounces back to him and goes for the lay up. Block by James.. epic, truly epic. Then Irving hits the winner. Probably the most intense two minutes of a game, right behind that 98.
Personally, that sequence in 2016, Is number 1. Game 7 against an impossible Golden State team is number 1.
Just the build up, the game is tied and Lebron runs 20mph and jumps up that high to block on the backboard. Golden state would never score again in the final 3.30.
Both are GOATs, never really remembered MJ growing up, but Lebron is just as awe inspiring.

 

[FreoRicci]

Also, as great as Lebron is and his impressive stats, he just doesn't have the thousands of memorable plays that MJ has, let alone all those insane finals records MJ holds.

In redgards to defence in that era. It's not so much the positioning of players, but it was way more physical and more hustle before a foul was called. Just look at Detroit!

Lebron has had insane games in the playoffs. In the ECF vs Boston 2012, 45 points and 15 rebounds is probably just behind MJ in number 2 of greatest playoff performance. That was 99 Lebron James that game. That series Lebron was ridiculous, then won it all in the Finals that year
Game 7 in 2016, vs that stacked Golden State team 72-9 team, he was huge. That series he averaged close to 30PPG with most rebounds, steals, assists of any player per game. Number 1 across all categories. GOAT performance.
But never helped that he had awful support in a time of dynasties. MJ managed to win titles with Pippen and Grant. Support cast of Longley, Kerr. Very meh depth.
By 99 onwards, it was more then that. Kobe and Shaq was unfair.
Curry, KD, Klay and Green is as disgusting as it gets.

 

[Mootsy]

Lebron has had insane games in the playoffs. In the ECF vs Boston 2012, 45 points and 15 rebounds is probably just behind MJ in number 2 of greatest playoff performance. That was 99 Lebron James that game. That series Lebron was ridiculous, then won it all in the Finals that year
Game 7 in 2016, vs that stacked Golden State team 72-9 team, he was huge. That series he averaged close to 30PPG with most rebounds, steals, assists of any player per game. Number 1 across all categories. GOAT performance.
But never helped that he had awful support in a time of dynasties. MJ managed to win titles with Pippen and Grant. Support cast of Longley, Kerr. Very meh depth.
By 99 onwards, it was more then that. Kobe and Shaq was unfair.
Curry, KD, Klay and Green is as disgusting as it gets.

I’m being harsh, all LeBron needed was a few more wins and a bit of luck, especially 2011. He was angry in that series. He didn’t really have a Pippen and Rodman to help out, and Kerr. Paxson, Grant etc

Bulls 96-98 was pretty much an All-Star super team.

 

[fidstar]

LBJ accumulates huge numbers in the easy going lax defense regular season but when he comes up against real quality playoff opponents that are great defensively, not the pretender trash (i.e. Raps) of the Eastern conference, his performances leave a lot to be desired

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

The Klaw has LBJ’s measure

 

[FreoRicci]

I’m being harsh, all LeBron needed was a few more wins and a bit of luck, especially 2011. He was angry in that series. He didn’t really have a Pippen and Rodman to help out, and Kerr. Paxson, Grant etc

Bulls 96-98 was pretty much an All-Star super team.

Yeah. Probably 4-5 games off having his record 5-4 or 6-3. MJ didn’t take Chicago to a finals at age of 20. Lebron took his massively awful 2007 Cleveland team to the Finals.

To be fair, you would never find a more perfect second fiddle then Pippen. Defensively he’s one of the best all time but also offensive force. Him with MJ was no joke. One in a lifetime match up.
You look back at the duos- Shaq/Kobe, Kareem/Magic- Pippen could hold his own against those guys. Well he did in that generation.
Hard to translate to today. Kawhi is Pippen of today, but in terms of MJ possibly Lebron with Kawhi is about as unfair it’ll get.

 

[Scotland]

LeBron is also a Ray Allen corner 3 away from being 2-7. Irving misses, Curry hits and that swings game 7 in GSW's favour in 2016 too.

2007: 4-0 loss
2011: 4-2 loss
2012: 4-1 win
2013: 4-3 win
2014: 4-1 loss
2015: 4-2 loss
2016: 4-3 win
2017: 4-1 loss
2018: 4-0 loss

You can argue about the strength of those Cavs/Heat teams compared to their opponents as you can with any finals match up, but as Bulls fans like to remind everyone; Jordan never played a game 7. LeBron won with Wade and Bosh in 2012 and even had Ray Allen for company in 2013. The 2012 Heat were the big 3 plus Battier (2 x all defensive 2nd team) who scored 11 a game and Chalmers who gave them a solid 10 points and 4 assists a game. In 2016 he had Kyrie and Kevin Love, and without those two guys he was immense in 2015 then they lost - but Curry almost dragged GSW back to 3-3 last year without KD and then without Klay. No one wants to be a losing Norm Smith medalist.

The 95/96 (72-10) Bulls had 3 all stars. Jordan (every year), Pippen (90, 92-97) and Rodman (90 and 92). Kukoc was 6MOTY. They were a great team, but they weren't the 2017 Warriors with the last two players to win the MVP on the same roster and Draymond Green and Klay Thompson. Every year the roster seems to get better and better. Jordan carried as much if not more of an individual load for the Bulls than LeBron has in his championship wins. When Jordan had no support he was dropping 63 points on Larry Bird's Celtics, winning scoring titles, winning DPOY, leading the league in steals, winning MVPs and taking the Bad Boy Pistons to 6/7 games in the ECF. Similar to LeBron in his first stint with the Cavs, except Jordan was better and the late 80s Bulls were better. They would have walked through the 2006/7 EC and I doubt they would've been swept by the Spurs post Robinson pre Kawhi.

Both players started winning championships around the same age, LeBron had just been in the league a bit longer having bypassed college. Jordan's attitude to falling just short of making the finals and winning individual awards was to keep working and get better. LeBron's response in the same situation was to join a playoff team along with Bosh and create a big 3. And then go back to Cleveland when they'd sucked enough to have a couple of all NBA players. And then bail on that to play with AD. Jordan's legacy would be viewed a lot differently if he bailed on the Bulls to join Barkley at the 6ers and taken David Robinson with him.

 

[peternorth]

Pierce doesn't rate lebron in his top 5.

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

Pierce doesn't rate lebron in his top 5.

Wheelchair is hardly impartial on the subject.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Pierce doesn't rate lebron in his top 5.

His top 5 is neither right or wrong, just his view.

 

[QuietB]

LeBron is also a Ray Allen corner 3 away from being 2-7. Irving misses, Curry hits and that swings game 7 in GSW's favour in 2016 too.

2007: 4-0 loss
2011: 4-2 loss
2012: 4-1 win
2013: 4-3 win
2014: 4-1 loss
2015: 4-2 loss
2016: 4-3 win
2017: 4-1 loss
2018: 4-0 loss

You can argue about the strength of those Cavs/Heat teams compared to their opponents as you can with any finals match up, but as Bulls fans like to remind everyone; Jordan never played a game 7. LeBron won with Wade and Bosh in 2012 and even had Ray Allen for company in 2013. The 2012 Heat were the big 3 plus Battier (2 x all defensive 2nd team) who scored 11 a game and Chalmers who gave them a solid 10 points and 4 assists a game. In 2016 he had Kyrie and Kevin Love, and without those two guys he was immense in 2015 then they lost - but Curry almost dragged GSW back to 3-3 last year without KD and then without Klay. No one wants to be a losing Norm Smith medalist.

The 95/96 (72-10) Bulls had 3 all stars. Jordan (every year), Pippen (90, 92-97) and Rodman (90 and 92). Kukoc was 6MOTY. They were a great team, but they weren't the 2017 Warriors with the last two players to win the MVP on the same roster and Draymond Green and Klay Thompson. Every year the roster seems to get better and better. Jordan carried as much if not more of an individual load for the Bulls than LeBron has in his championship wins. When Jordan had no support he was dropping 63 points on Larry Bird's Celtics, winning scoring titles, winning DPOY, leading the league in steals, winning MVPs and taking the Bad Boy Pistons to 6/7 games in the ECF. Similar to LeBron in his first stint with the Cavs, except Jordan was better and the late 80s Bulls were better. They would have walked through the 2006/7 EC and I doubt they would've been swept by the Spurs post Robinson pre Kawhi.

Both players started winning championships around the same age, LeBron had just been in the league a bit longer having bypassed college. Jordan's attitude to falling just short of making the finals and winning individual awards was to keep working and get better. LeBron's response in the same situation was to join a playoff team along with Bosh and create a big 3. And then go back to Cleveland when they'd sucked enough to have a couple of all NBA players. And then bail on that to play with AD. Jordan's legacy would be viewed a lot differently if he bailed on the Bulls to join Barkley at the 6ers and taken David Robinson with him.

LBJ did win a title with JR Smith.

Surely that counts for double?

LeBron left Cleveland because they would not build a team around him, the very thing Krause did do for Jordan. Twice.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

LeBron is also a Ray Allen corner 3 away from being 2-7. Irving misses, Curry hits and that swings game 7 in GSW's favour in 2016 too.

Paxson misses that shot in 93, Bulls lose and have to play Phoenix in Phoenix in a Game 7.
Bulls get the rub of the green with two shot clock violation calls in 98, one waves off Eisley’s 3 ball and the other counts Harper’s runner. That’s a 5 point swing in a 1 point game. They lose that and they have to play Utah in Utah in a Game 7.
Those things happen and Jordan is probably 4-2, but just like your LeBron example it’s pointless to argue because it didn’t.

 

[jod23]

Why do people do these comparisons.

Lebron is a great, great, great basketball player. He just isn't in MJ's stratosphere and that's ok, because nobody is.

You guys can talk about defenses or how each would go in each era and all that. I dont think any of that matters, both players are too great, they would just adapt. Im sure Lebron would have been an absolute top player in the 80's and 90's just like he is today. Jordan of course would completely * the league in todays game given how soft it is. I'm not even joking, he could average 50ppg over a season in today's NBA.

Someone said it best earlier, Lebron is jack of all trades but master of none. Lebron has never been the best at anything. He's just really good at everything. Where as Jordan was the master of everything basically.

And everybody, EVERYBODY always forgets about defense where Lebron is a good defender but has never been elite and honestly in the past 4-5 years has just given up on defense all together.

For me he is top 5 of all time which is an incredible achievement and you could argue he is No.2, but the same argument can be made for Magic, Kareem, Russell etc...

But there is only one GOAT.

 

[peternorth]

Why do people do these comparisons.

Lebron is a great, great, great basketball player. He just isn't in MJ's stratosphere and that's ok, because nobody is.

You guys can talk about defenses or how each would go in each era and all that. I dont think any of that matters, both players are too great, they would just adapt. Im sure Lebron would have been an absolute top player in the 80's and 90's just like he is today. Jordan of course would completely fu** the league in todays game given how soft it is. I'm not even joking, he could average 50ppg over a season in today's NBA.

Someone said it best earlier, Lebron is jack of all trades but master of none. Lebron has never been the best at anything. He's just really good at everything. Where as Jordan was the master of everything basically.

And everybody, EVERYBODY always forgets about defense where Lebron is a good defender but has never been elite and honestly in the past 4-5 years has just given up on defense all together.

For me he is top 5 of all time which is an incredible achievement and you could argue he is No.2, but the same argument can be made for Magic, Kareem, Russell etc...

But there is only one GOAT.

Aren't you comparing players in your post?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Aren't you comparing players in your post?

I think that was troll post so we can let it slide

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Aren't you comparing players in your post?

Amare or Dirk?

 

[jod23]

Aren't you comparing players in your post?

Haha. Im trying to say, stop comparing because the two arent comparable.

Jordan is just in a different world to everyone else.

 

[Scotland]

Someone said it best earlier, Lebron is jack of all trades but master of none. Lebron has never been the best at anything. He's just really good at everything. Where as Jordan was the master of everything basically.

A touch harsh given he has led the NBA in scoring and is currently leading the NBA in assists. He was also all defensive first team 5 years in a row so better than a 'good' defender.

Jordan is the GOAT, but he didn't make a career out of posting up Karl Malone. You could pit LeBron against the 1990s Jazz and he could go up against Stockton or Malone. His versatility is pretty remarkable. But I don't think being able to play all 5 positions on the court is something Jordan cared about. He just wanted to be the most influential player on the court in every game ever.

I'll be interested to see how LeBron is viewed 20 odd years after he retires. We're still here now talking about how great Jordan was and he didn't reinvent the wheel, he was just a video game character where the programmers put athleticism, skill and killer instinct all on the highest setting. The idea of a guy that is 6'8'' and strong enough to play at the 4 without getting pushed around also having the ball handling and passing ability to play as a point guard is pretty nuts, but now we have Giannis who is 6'11'' and putting up 30/14/6 without being a particularly good shooter. And we have Simmons starting out as a 6'10'' PG, Zion as a 6'6'' 130kg whatever he is after 20 games. Etc. I think we're going to see more players that don't fit traditional molds. Giannis could be a 30/10/10 player no problems. If you have a guy that is near 7 foot tall and can do everything why not build your whole offence around him?

 

[Gameova_]

Lebron would dunk over Jordan and make him his bitch.

 

[fidstar]

MJ didn't reinvent the game?

Wat?

 

[savagelunchbox]

Lebron would dunk over Jordan and make him his bitch.

Thanks, s00z.