Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

[RedV3x]

I get the feeling most people have lost their appetite for the footy this year, there is no real logical reason why community footy was not back weeks ago at the very least, WAFL footy is set for a early August return AFAIK a 9 round season with shortened quarters (16 min) unlike community footy relies on crowds to pay everyone, so maybe will just be canned as it will not be viable with no crowds.

I know most/some/all people will disagree with me and that's fine, but with the recently released and not publicized at all new mortality rates for covid by the American CDC which are 13/14 times lower than what was used and repeated 24/7 on our news cycles to enable all these lockdowns and job losses etc there is no logical reason why we are keeping up with this charade.

Kids footy/sport should never have stopped, just like school should never have stopped.

IMO the WAFL could start with crowds. Divide the ground up into spectator squares with distancing.
Extra precautions at the toilets and takeaway food.

 

[Les Malone]

IMO the WAFL could start with crowds. Divide the ground up into spectator squares with distancing.
Extra precautions at the toilets and takeaway food.

From what i can ascertain and being somewhat close to the WAFL, my son plays at a WAFL club, all the energy and enthusiasm for the season has been sucked out, it may pick up - i don't know.

Common sense is all that is needed anywhere for social distancing, the vast majority of people have it, it should be fine.

 

[juss]

Enormous opportunity for the first social/ junior sport that re-opens here.

Kids will be desperate to play sport and parents will be desperate for the same with their kids.

If a basketball, rugby, soccer, tennis, cricket, whatever opens up first, and young kids give it a go because of nothing else and enjoy it, that sort of stuff can really shape future participation and the sports they play over their junior years.

 

[Gigantor]

I would’ve expected more though I imagine that doesn’t include Melb, Perth And Adelaide which was on a different channel? Also Fox? I imagine it’ll still be 1.1-1.2mil.

It’s hard to imagine something like blue heelers use to constantly get well over 2million when the population was over 20% less.

NRL on Fox at 355k, is the highest Fox rating for a H&A game since R17,2019. (storm/Sharks)

 

[Les Malone]

Enormous opportunity for the first social/ junior sport that re-opens here.

Kids will be desperate to play sport and parents will be desperate for the same with their kids.

If a basketball, rugby, soccer, tennis, cricket, whatever opens up first, and young kids give it a go because of nothing else and enjoy it, that sort of stuff can really shape future participation and the sports they play over their junior years.

i don't know about that, i am not sure what happened at junior rego days, whether all the clubs refunded the money, because from memory all the rego days were before we knew about the lockdown, so perhaps the bulk are still tied to a particular sport.

what is amusing ( not really) is that for the last few weeks in Perth and i live directly opposite a primary school is seeing hundreds of kids kicking around balls falling all over each other etc etc but no junior sport, it is stupid beyond belief.

 

[juss]

i don't know about that, i am not sure what happened at junior rego days, whether all the clubs refunded the money, because from memory all the rego days were before we knew about the lockdown, so perhaps the bulk are still tied to a particular sport.

what is amusing ( not really) is that for the last few weeks in Perth and i live directly opposite a primary school is seeing hundreds of kids kicking around balls falling all over each other etc etc but no junior sport, it is stupid beyond belief.

That's basically everything right now though.
So many inconsistencies.

 

[Rob]

Enormous opportunity for the first social/ junior sport that re-opens here.

Kids will be desperate to play sport and parents will be desperate for the same with their kids.

If a basketball, rugby, soccer, tennis, cricket, whatever opens up first, and young kids give it a go because of nothing else and enjoy it, that sort of stuff can really shape future participation and the sports they play over their junior years.

Junior footy and basketball training has already started - although I don't think there has been any push at all to get new players. The teams were sorted before all the s**t went down and the kids are training in those teams.

 

[NoobPie]

Junior footy and basketball training has already started - although I don't think there has been any push at all to get new players. The teams were sorted before all the s**t went down and the kids are training in those teams.

yeah the idea that one season starting a couple of weeks before others is going to result in a generational shift in participation is decent loss of perspective

 

[NoobPie]

I would’ve expected more though I imagine that doesn’t include Melb, Perth And Adelaide which was on a different channel? Also Fox? I imagine it’ll still be 1.1-1.2mil.

It’s hard to imagine something like blue heelers use to constantly get well over 2million when the population was over 20% less.

Looks like it got 85K on gem across Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide....355K on foxtel so a bit over 1.2M all up

Solid ratings but given what was exerted to get the game back on early it is hardly a triumph. The Gem numbers are similar to what the AFL gets in Sydney and Brisbane on Friday nights every other week when it is up against the NRL.

 

[NoobPie]

i don't know about that, i am not sure what happened at junior rego days, whether all the clubs refunded the money, because from memory all the rego days were before we knew about the lockdown, so perhaps the bulk are still tied to a particular sport.

what is amusing ( not really) is that for the last few weeks in Perth and i live directly opposite a primary school is seeing hundreds of kids kicking around balls falling all over each other etc etc but no junior sport, it is stupid beyond belief.

Is anyone going to engage Les on government coronavirus policies? I sense a bit of an itch t

 

[juss]

yeah the idea that one season starting a couple of weeks before others is going to result in a generational shift in participation is decent loss of perspective

I'm not talking about a generational loss in AFL, I'm talking about an opportunity for other codes and kids that might play whatever sport they can this year and that might shape their participation in future.

It doesn't mean they will all ditch AFL, it means they might play other sports in addition that they wouldn't have before.

You've got to consider opportunities wherever they are in this time, especially at the grassroots level.

 

[Les Malone]

Is anyone going to engage Les on government coronavirus policies? I sense a bit of an itch t

More than happy any time, this is not really the thread, but as far as junior sport goes, it has been an absolute travesty to deny kids school and community sport, when facts surrounding kids getting it and transmitting it were well known but have not well publicized deliberately to scare people.

worse still the taping off playgrounds and making kids stay inside when fresh air and exercise and sunlight are actually far more beneficial

One example is this, our tennis club was closed down partly because people were told they could catch corona from a tennis ball - FFS!

 

[BringBackTorps]

I previously praised P. V'landys because he:-

. drove, with dogged determination, an early resumption of NRL games, 2 weeks before the AFL start (& D. Russel, on SEN yesterday, said the NRL start would be televised in 71 countries).

. was investigating ways to get some crowds back to NRL games asap (probably a world first), within approved health etc. guidelines. A massive international PR coup for the NRL.

. implied the new Rights' deals with Nine & Foxtel were close to the amounts he was seeking prior to Feb. 2020 ie the final deal would be only a fairly minimal reduction on the current Rights' deal (understandable, in an environment where NRL ratings & general advertising rates, are down).

. "saved" the NRL.
P. Rothfield wrote on 22.5 it was possible or probable, due to the NRL's severe financial plight, 6 NRL clubs would fold without a new Rights' deal being signed soon. He wrote 2021 season might only have 10 NRL teams. See my above post #975 for Rothfield's detailed Daily Telegraph account of the NRL's extraordinary problems.

. fully realised that the NRL (& sport generally) must be as entertaining as possible. He, therefore, was very forthright, in calling for an interchange reduction from the current 8 to 6 per team, per game- to make RL more free flowing, & less defensive. This would be very appealing for fans, & increase ratings.

As, however, the NRL has had a huge almost 33% reduction in Rights' $ from Nine for 2020-2022 seasons, I now realise my praise was premature & wrong (assuming Foxtel Rights' $ to 2027 are also c. 33% down on the current Foxtel Rights' $).

V'landys said, re the next Rights' deal, on 23.5 to A. Webster in the SMH (see my above link & post# 993)

"I'm getting no less than I was prepared to take before the coronavirus came in (ie pre Feb.2020.- my words) It's a good deal for us"!
If the AFL's new total Rights' deal has a much lower % cut (cf its current deal), the new NRL deal represents an humiliation for the NRL.

It appears the NRL were desperate to sign a deal, almost any deal- & Rothfield's detailed description of the NRL's perilous financial position was accurate (& not simply a ploy to "talk down' the value of the Rights by a News Ltd. employee).

he is now enabling the clubs "to have more involvement in running the NRL"

This is going to end in rivers of tears!

You may be right.

Amazingly, V'landys has stated that the NRL salary cap will remain at the same, pre-covid level- $9.9m pa, per club-for 2021!

Following the new Rights' deal announcements, it appears inevitable the NRL will have to make very big cuts to their spending- which areas will be cut the most?

If the NRL make big cuts to their GR funding, their long term decline in male GR regd. player nos. will probably accelerate. A potential disaster for the NRL- but big opportunities for GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with the AFL's negotiations with 7 but this is a huge whack to the NRL.

Undoubtedly.
Will be interesting to see how they "justify/rationalise" it publicly- particularly if the AFL get a much lower haircut.
Foxtel will be required to provide public details on the new Rights' deal- as News. Ltd. is a publicly listed co., such information is "material".

Funding for junior development likely the big loser of that $50m cut. All in the context that participation is probably the code's biggest weakness with 2019 Ausplay data showing that in NSW that AF actually pips RL for club participation for those under 15.

Is the publicly quoted figure of "$50m", that the NRL has said needs o be cut from its NRL HQ/admin./national programs etc an annual cut of $50m every year- or $50m cut in total, that is spread over numerous years?

I get the feeling most people have lost their appetite for the footy this year, there is no real logical reason why community footy was not back weeks ago at the very least, WAFL footy is set for a early August return AFAIK a 9 round season with shortened quarters (16 min) unlike community footy relies on crowds to pay everyone, so maybe will just be canned as it will not be viable with no crowds.

Sadly, the Kyabram District League, in country Victoria, recently announced all snr & jnr GR AF & netball has been cancelled for 2020.
Does anyone know if any other AF leagues have announced cancellation of 2020 season, any where in Australia?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Sadly, the Kyabram District League, in country Victoria, recently announced all snr & jnr GR AF & netball has been cancelled for 2020.
Does anyone know f any other AF leagues have announced cancellation of 2020 season, any where in Australia?

Heathcote league and the Millewa have too. I imagine a lot are just waiting a couple of weeks to see if they are allowed crowds of over 500 before they make their decision.

 

[Gigantor]

The question is: given there were three years left on the deal, why was there a rush to extend?
The broadcasters clearly put pressure on them, and they had their man in the seat to do the deal (which favours the broadcasters more than it favours the NRL).
Now the same thing might end up happening with the AFL, we shall see, but I would hope the AFL wouldn't get taken to the cleaners to the same extent.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The question is: given there were three years left on the deal, why was there a rush to extend?
The broadcasters clearly put pressure on them, and they had their man in the seat to do the deal (which favours the broadcasters more than it favours the NRL).
Now the same thing might end up happening with the AFL, we shall see, but I would hope the AFL wouldn't get taken to the cleaners to the same extent.

Reading between the lines and doing a lot of guess work I imagine the AFL will take a substantially bigger hit this season then the NRL but then back to the original deal afterwards and in the long run being better off.

 

[Les Malone]

Heathcote league and the Millewa have too. I imagine a lot are just waiting a couple of weeks to see if they are allowed crowds of over 500 before they make their decision.

yep, huge crowds at community football, probably spaced out like browns cows at Millewa at the best of times, let alone cars around the boundary - absolutely dwarf Bunnings and normal shopping centers crowds!

 

[Prince Imperial]

Is the publicly quoted figure of "$50m", that the NRL has said needs o be cut from its NRL HQ/admin./national programs etc an annual cut of $50m every year- or $50m cut in total, that is spread over numerous years?

I don't know as the reports I read did not specify. However, you would have to strongly suspect it is for every year given the decline in broadcast revenue and V'Landy's commitment to maintain current funding to the clubs and players.

 

[NoobPie]

I previously praised P. V'landys because he:-

. drove, with dogged determination, an early resumption of NRL games, 2 weeks before the AFL start (& D. Russel, on SEN yesterday, said the NRL start would be televised in 71 countries).

. was investigating ways to get some crowds back to NRL games asap (probably a world first), within approved health etc. guidelines. A massive international PR coup for the NRL.

. implied the new Rights' deals with Nine & Foxtel were close to the amounts he was seeking prior to Feb. 2020 ie the final deal would be only a fairly minimal reduction on the current Rights' deal (understandable, in an environment where NRL ratings & general advertising rates, are down).

. "saved" the NRL.
P. Rothfield wrote on 22.5 it was possible or probable, due to the NRL's severe financial plight, 6 NRL clubs would fold without a new Rights' deal being signed soon. He wrote 2021 season might only have 10 NRL teams. See my above post #975 for Rothfield's detailed Daily Telegraph account of the NRL's extraordinary problems.

. fully realised that the NRL (& sport generally) must be as entertaining as possible. He, therefore, was very forthright, in calling for an interchange reduction from the current 8 to 6 per team, per game- to make RL more free flowing, & less defensive. This would be very appealing for fans, & increase ratings.

As, however, the NRL has had a huge almost 33% reduction in Rights' $ from Nine for 2020-2022 seasons, I now realise my praise was premature & wrong (assuming Foxtel Rights' $ to 2027 are also c. 33% down on the current Foxtel Rights' $).

V'landys said, re the next Rights' deal, on 23.5 to A. Webster in the SMH (see my above link & post# 993)

"I'm getting no less than I was prepared to take before the coronavirus came in (ie pre Feb.2020.- my words) It's a good deal for us"!
If the AFL's new total Rights' deal has a much lower % cut (cf its current deal), the new NRL deal represents an humiliation for the NRL.

It appears the NRL were desperate to sign a deal, almost any deal- & Rothfield's detailed description of the NRL's perilous financial position was accurate (& not simply a ploy to "talk down' the value of the Rights by a News Ltd. employee).



You may be right.

Amazingly, V'landys has stated that the NRL salary cap will remain at the same, pre-covid level- $9.9m pa, per club-for 2021!

Following the new Rights' deal announcements, it appears inevitable the NRL will have to make very big cuts to their spending- which areas will be cut the most?

If the NRL make big cuts to their GR funding, their long term decline in male GR regd. player nos. will probably accelerate. A potential disaster for the NRL- but big opportunities for GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.




Undoubtedly.
Will be interesting to see how they "justify/rationalise" it publicly- particularly if the AFL get a much lower haircut.
Foxtel will be required to provide public details on the new Rights' deal- as News. Ltd. is a publicly listed co., such information is "material".


Is the publicly quoted figure of "$50m", that the NRL has said needs o be cut from its NRL HQ/admin./national programs etc an annual cut of $50m every year- or $50m cut in total, that is spread over numerous years?


Sadly, the Kyabram District League, in country Victoria, recently announced all snr & jnr GR AF & netball has been cancelled for 2020.
Does anyone know if any other AF leagues have announced cancellation of 2020 season, any where in Australia?

BBT, the point is a lot of the desperation from the NRL to get started so quick is inseparable from the bad tv rights, clubs and player pay deals

VLandys has been celebrated, particularly by the media companies that have made out like bandits, but ultimately the legacy looks like less revenue of which a greater share will go to clubs and players

The AFL will no doubt sign a better deal for it with 7 / foxtel (even if forced into a haircut of some magnitude). They have already flagged a significant permanent cut to the football department soft cap (likely to be the biggest contributor to the games savings) and the players will almost certainly be held to the 28% of revenue they bargained for.

In the fullness of time the NRL playing two weeks ahead of the AFL will be of no matter whatsover. They will live with ramifications of the egoist fixer for the next generation....one which will almost certainly see its grass roots spend shrinking in its heartland against the AFL's.

 

[BringBackTorps]

SMH R. Masters 27.5

Masters' article is/was "softening up" RL fans for hefty cuts in their Rights' deals with Nine & Foxtel. Foxtel, therefore, is likely to gain the Rights, until 2027, also at another big discount (cf present NRL deal). Similar to Rothfield's article I linked above in post #975, this Masters'article implies the NRL is desperate to do an imminent deal (due to its cataclysmic financial distress).

He also suggests that the AFL is in a better negotiating position than the NRL.
Masters wrote

"Australia's leading media and sports' Rights analyst, Colin Smith, warns against TV contracts not being co-terminus, saying pay & FTA deals must have the same beginning and end date to maximise competitive tension, and therefore the Rights sum at the end".

"According to reports, the News Corps deal is $1.7b over 8 years (ie to 2027- my words) without FTA Rights, compared to the existing $1.8b over 5 years, with FTA Rights".

Oddly, Masters suggests the NRL was not legally compelled to waive its legal right to enforce, with full $, the previous 2021-2022 Nine & Foxtel deals (despite NRL being in breach of contract- less games etc.- in 2020: Force Majeure voids the contracts); & when Greenberg stated this legal strength of the NRL to Nine, Greenberg's NRL future was doomed.

Peter V'landys has primed rugby league for reduced pay TV deal with Foxtel

Peter V'landys has primed rugby league for the announcement of a reduced pay TV deal. But how will the clubs react if, as seems probable, the AFL is able to secure a superior result?

www.smh.com.au

It will be interesting to see what inclusion, if any, the NRL digital arm has in the new Foxtel deal. Former ARLC Chairman D. Grant said recently it was valued at $1b, possibly more.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

SMH R. Masters 27.5

Masters' article is/was "softening up" RL fans for hefty cuts in their Rights' deals with Nine & Foxtel. Foxtel, therefore, is likely to gain the Rights, until 2027, also at another big discount (cf present NRL deal). Similar to Rothfield's article I linked above in post #993, this Masters'article implies the NRL is desperate to do an imminent deal (due to its cataclysmic financial distress).

He also suggests that the AFL is in a better negotiating position than the NRL.
Masters wrote

"Australia's leading media and sports' Rights analyst, Colin Smith, warns against TV contracts not being co-terminus, saying pay & FTA deals must have the same beginning and end date to maximise competitive tension, and therefore the Rights sum at the end".

"According to reports, the News Corps deal is $1.7b over 8 years (ie to 2027- my words) without FTA Rights, compared to the existing $1.8b over 5 years, with FTA Rights".

Peter V'landys has primed rugby league for reduced pay TV deal with Foxtel

Peter V'landys has primed rugby league for the announcement of a reduced pay TV deal. But how will the clubs react if, as seems probable, the AFL is able to secure a superior result?

www.smh.com.au

It will be interesting to see what inclusion, if any, the NRL digital arm has in the new Foxtel deal. Former ARLC Chairman D. Grant said recently it was valued at $1b, possibly more.

Who knows maybe they are doing it in a way that they can stream the game through NRL and hope to make the difference up there. They just seem to have been smashed.

 

[NoobPie]

Apparently they have given up 30% of both 9 AND fox's contributions for the remainder of the existing deal.....

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

So perhaps up to $300M

...and in replacement they get $1B for locking in the subscription rights until 2027

Golly me

 

[RedV3x]

I'm talking about an opportunity for other codes and kids that might play whatever sport they can this year and that might shape their participation in future.

I don't see that opportunity since amateur football has already re-booted.
If anything, the opposit is true. In the absense of organisation the dominant sports will prefail.
i.e. In the absense of organised sports the kids will probably join the others kicking the ball around.

 

[RedV3x]

If the NRL make big cuts to their GR funding, their long term decline in male GR regd. player nos. will probably accelerate. A potential disaster for the NRL- but big opportunities for GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld.

IMO it all depends on the model.
The AFL have taken the devolution road to cost cutting and that should be just a major roadbump.
They wouldn't like to lose the impressive gains in NSW, Qld and AFLW.
The NRL seem to have taken the position that the NRL must be maitained at all costs.
IMO that top down approach is a recipe for disaster.
This is the last thing that the NRL heartlands need.

 

[Les Malone]

IMO it all depends on the model.
The AFL have taken the devolution road to cost cutting and that should be just a major roadbump.
They wouldn't like to lose the impressive gains in NSW, Qld and AFLW.
The NRL seem to have taken the position that the NRL must be maitained at all costs.
IMO that top down approach is a recipe for disaster.
This is the last thing that the NRL heartlands need.

the writing has been on the wall for grass roots participation both seniors and junior RL at community level for quite a long time, its a tough game and it doesn't fit the current generational wrap your child in cotton wool mentality of smaller families and western living

the NRL have the luxury of Polynesian footballers in spades, its a TV game.