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moomba said:
Did that money spent disappear into thin air?

It contributes towards the profitability of the club that sold the player. Hence it having a zero effect on overall profitability.

Can I make it simple for you. Liverpool sell TAA to Man City for £100m. Our profitability reduces by £20m a year for the next five years, but Liverpools profitability increases by £100m does it not?

So the overall effect is 100-20-20-20-20-20 = ?
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No because it’s helping to push wages and transfers up, so club receiving more has to pay out for more in those two regards anyway.

When there’s real talk of football getting it’s finances under control and getting back to a more sustainable approach in the wake of Covid, I find it unbelievable that you are still pushing for no financial restrictions.

With no ffp transfer fees and wages will skyrocket as you well know, and those without oilcash will be stretched to breaking point to keep up. It’s so disingenuous of you because it’s almost certain you are only in favour of scraping it because of your own owners wealth.
 

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Zidane98 said:
What the hell? Spurs challenged for trophies between 2015/19. Runnes up to you guys in 2017, runners up in the CL final in 2019. Came very close to winning the league in 2016.

Spurs absolutely did challenge for trophies without being big spenders
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Spurs did still spend big on wages, top 6 in the league. But came up empty handed, makes you wonder what if if they actually spent a bit more.
Cruyff14 said:
Now comes the part where the question doesn't ever get answered.
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Dodged it.
 
chef said:
Spurs did still spend big on wages, top 6 in the league. But came up empty handed, makes you wonder what if if they actually spent a bit more.

Dodged it.
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Challenging isnt the same as winning.


How have Man United done being the secobd biggest spender over the last 5 years?

Leicester not only challenged for the title.

They won it without being big spenders. Your question has well and truly been answered.
 
WealstoneRaider said:
No because it’s helping to push wages and transfers up, so club receiving more has to pay out for more in those two regards anyway.
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The increase in TV income has certainly pushed wages up. But still the increased revenue is far greater than the increase in wage costs. Domestic TV income has gone up in the premier league by £2.5m a year since FFP came into being. Wages have increased by £1.2bn. It's been a great thing for clubs, my only criticism is that I believe that while clubs have improved their position, players have improved their position and agents have improved their position, the poor old supporter is still getting stiffed on a weekly basis.

When there’s real talk of football getting it’s finances under control and getting back to a more sustainable approach in the wake of Covid, I find it unbelievable that you are still pushing for no financial restrictions.
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I'm not.

With no ffp transfer fees and wages will skyrocket as you well know, and those without oilcash will be stretched to breaking point to keep up. It’s so disingenuous of you because it’s almost certain you are only in favour of scraping it because of your own owners wealth.
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I'm in favour of scrapping these controls because they're bad for the game. They entrench the position of those already at the top (including us) and make it next to impossible for anyone else to reach those heights on a sustainable basis.

I'm certainly not opposed to some form of financial controls, and have said so many times in the past.
 
chef said:
Spurs didnt win anything as they didnt strengthen while in their 'window'. Failed to spend.

Chelsea and Liverpool are both what I'd call big spenders, they are in the top half a dozen teams in the league wage wise too.
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In my lifetime. Sky 4 + Man City (2008-2020) v the rest. England only

Arsenal: 4 titles, 1x league cup, 9 x FA Cup, 0 x Europe.
Liverpool: 0 titles, 4 x league cup, 3 x FA Cup, 3 x Europe.
Man Utd: 13 titles, 5 x league cup, 5 x FA Cup, 3 x Europe.
Chelsea: 5 titles, 4 x league cup, 7 x FA Cup, 3 x Europe
Man City 2008 onwards: 4 titles, 5 x league cup, 0 x Europe

The rest: 4 titles, 11 x League cups, 4 x FA Cup, 0 x Europe.

Total trophies: 99.

Sky 4 + MCI= 78/99 = 78.8%
Rest = 21/99 = 21.2%

Since FFP. 2011-12 onwards:

Sky 4 + MCI = 7 titles, 8 x league cup, 7 x FA Cup, 5 x Europe
The Rest: 1 title, 1 x League Cup, 1 x FA Cup, 0 x Europe

Sky 4 + MCI = 27/30 trophies = 90%
The rest: 3/30 trophies = 10%

P.S. Ross, any Hammer, gunner, villa fan or Fulham fan... The Super Cup, Intertoto Cup and and Cup Winners Cup do not count.
 
Zidane98 said:
Challenging isnt the same as winning.


How have Man United done being the secobd biggest spender over the last 5 years?

Leicester not only challenged for the title.

They won it without being big spenders. Your question has well and truly been answered.
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But what are the ways? You said there was plenty.

Leicester is the exception not the rule and Spurs came up empty handed.
 
Nobodys
chef said:
But what are the ways? You said there was plenty.

Leicester is the exception not the rule and Spurs came up empty handed.
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Spurs challenged for trophies, not sure what your on about here. They did it buy astute purchases and astute club management. They did not challenge by being big spenders. That much is clear and answers your question.

You cant ignore Leicester because it doesnt suit your argument either.
 
So astute purchases and astute club management. That's two ways. That's hardly plenty.

But still waiting Zidane98 how are Chelsea and Liverpool not big spenders? The link you posted is a poor example. It only notes five years. Do we ignore Chelsea getting taken over by a millionaire? Liverpool spending a lot on dross for years?
 

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moomba said:
The increase in TV income has certainly pushed wages up. But still the increased revenue is far greater than the increase in wage costs. Domestic TV income has gone up in the premier league by £2.5m a year since FFP came into being. Wages have increased by £1.2bn. It's been a great thing for clubs, my only criticism is that I believe that while clubs have improved their position, players have improved their position and agents have improved their position, the poor old supporter is still getting stiffed on a weekly basis.



I'm not.



I'm in favour of scrapping these controls because they're bad for the game. They entrench the position of those already at the top (including us) and make it next to impossible for anyone else to reach those heights on a sustainable basis.

I'm certainly not opposed to some form of financial controls, and have said so many times in the past.
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Having clubs run by owners that are able to absorb hundreds of millions of pounds in losses and which are effectively funded by countries is much worse for the game than any financial controls. Its a lesser of two evils.
 
Cruyff14 said:
So astute purchases and astute club management. That's two ways. That's hardly plenty.

But still waiting Zidane98 how are Chelsea and Liverpool not big spenders? The link you posted is a poor example. It only notes five years. Do we ignore Chelsea getting taken over by a millionaire? Liverpool spending a lot on dross for years?
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Lol, its the last 5 years of transfer spending. Big spender is a subjective term. For me, the only big spenders in world football are PSG/City/Utd/Real & Barca.
 
As much as it pans me to say, Zidane is right about this. Spurs financially have not been in the same ball park as the other big six clubs so for us to finish in the CL places for four straight seasons definitely counts as punching above our weight.
 
WealstoneRaider said:
As much as it pans me to say, Zidane is right about this. Spurs financially have not been in the same ball park as the other big six clubs so for us to finish in the CL places for four straight seasons definitely counts as punching above our weight.
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Nope dead wrong.

1. We didn't win anything
2. Those who beat us those trophies spent more and are richer.
3. You keep moaning about Lewis not spending his money.

What I want:

1. FFP gone or drastically overhauled. This iteration does not work.
2. Our club to be run sustainably on the funds we generate.

P.S. Listen to Mr Wenger.
 
Zidane98 said:
Nobodys


Spurs challenged for trophies, not sure what your on about here. They did it buy astute purchases and astute club management. They did not challenge by being big spenders. That much is clear and answers your question.

You cant ignore Leicester because it doesnt suit your argument either.
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Im not ignoring Leicester, they did a one in 100 thing. But they are an exception not the rule.

And the Spurs did punch above their weight, but with a bit of spending i think they move from challengers to winners of something.
 
Cruyff14 said:
Can you show me where I explicitly said spending money guarantees trophies?
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But it does guarantee trophies.
Those 5 that dwarf the rest of the league hoover up all the trophies.

So while spending big may not guarantee a club a trophy. We are presently a 9 in 10 chance that a big spender wins silverware under current rules.
 
Zidane98 said:
Im still waiting for Cruyff14 to explain why Msn United has won so few trophies recently. Apparently spending money guarantees trophies.
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Has anyone said spending money guarantees trophies? It doesn't, but there's very few sides that have won trophies without spending big. Leicester is the only example in recent years, they then lost Kante to Chelsea and Mahrez to City.

Your perception of what big spending is, is warped and could only be held by someone who supports a massive club like yours. Even your go to example of Spurs had a wage bill of 148 million. For perspective, Norwich and Sheffield United had a wage bill of 13 million.

Tell me how can Norwich and Sheffield United can compete for trophies under FFP?
 
Zidane98 said:
What a great return, winning cups and europa.

League & CL titles?


After all spending big money guarantees it.
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Are we talking the 12 or 13 league titles since your last one or just recent ones?
 
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