I agree, painting groups as victims doesn't help them escape victimhood. Watch out for the offended, though.
Because you agreed with me.... You might need a big flu shot!!!!
I know it isn’t Friday but I hope the weekend has been better for you.
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I agree, painting groups as victims doesn't help them escape victimhood. Watch out for the offended, though.
Handing out money and sympathy is probably easier than dealing with the underlying problems and it assuages any matters of conscience.My take on the issues that some African-Americans face:
Multiple generations of people who have never seen anyone work hard for anything. Never seen someone strive and achieve. Never understood that they have control over their own destiny. That they could actually change the course of their lives by putting forth a little effort. They are stuck in perpetual asking and not doing.
Instead... we just keep pouring in more money... and every year it gets worse... and every year we decide that maybe we haven't yet pissed away enough money.. and that more would help.
You're creating generations of people who cannot escape the cycle of dependency because people aren't willing to consider the idea that the "help" is the problem. It's heartbreaking.
The cycle is perpetuated by the parents who never give their children an example of aspiration to do better. Too many will never take responsibility for their own failings and just stick out their hands.
These problems aren’t confined to African Americans, I see this every time I go out into the towns / cities in Australia too.
Since this is political commentary, I apologise for anyone that would prefer this thread not be polluted with thoughts like these.
Thanks, humour again. Last week no tougher than most. Every week is tough for most of us, Friday evening's the time to relax a bit. There are a lot having far tougher weeks than me.Because you agreed with me.... You might need a big flu shot!!!!
I know it isn’t Friday but I hope the weekend has been better for you.
You can read/listen to Anne Aly or Karla Grant, bemoaning the terrible state of Aborigines on national TV, no solution offered, on the one hand or Shirleen Campbell, campaigning for victims of abuse of Aboriginal women and children and Jacinta Price, Alice Springs council member on Aborigines taking responsibility on t’other. Bashed Aborigine women and neglected Aborigine children are immediate problems to be solved. It isn’t the Government or non Aboriginal Australians doing the bashing and/or neglecting.Handing out money and sympathy is probably easier than dealing with the underlying problems and it assuages any matters of conscience.
I don't know enough about the US situation and even here I'm like a lot of urban Australians - not directly involved with indigenous issues despite a fair amount of reading on it. Their claims appear to be that the problem is structural.
As soon as ideas are put forward to address this they are deemed to be too radical, e.g. the Uluru Statement.
Reading your comments I think we are a long long way apart on this issue DM.You can read/listen to Anne Aly or Karla Grant, bemoaning the terrible state of Aborigines on national TV, no solution offered, on the one hand or Shirleen Campbell, campaigning for victims of abuse of Aboriginal women and children and Jacinta Price, Alice Springs council member on Aborigines taking responsibility on t’other. Bashed Aborigine women and neglected Aborigine children are immediate problems to be solved. It isn’t the Government or non Aboriginal Australians doing the bashing and/or neglecting.
There’s no immediate, certainly no easy, solution to disadvantage. It isn’t structural or institutional, they are 2 words that relieve both Aborigines and public servants who administer, of responsibility. Rule of Law and first World standards of living are here to stay. The eggs can’t be unscrambled.
You have access to enough information to express an opinion, as long as you are prepared to listen to others who may have even more information, are prepared to evaluate what you hear/read and have enough flexibility to change your mind, feel free to proclaim. But be careful how you express it.
Nothing wrong with being a long way apart, DW, Xmas Lunches would be boring, otherwise. If you have or stumble across first hand sources, particularly first hand sources, please let me know, I have been known to change my mind (I voted ALP for most of my life). The next Mitchell Xmas Dinner will be a ripper.Reading your comments I think we are a long long way apart on this issue DM.
Tempting as it is to respond to each of your comments I think it'd become a drawn out threadkiller.
So taking your advice I'll pursue my interest in this issue elsewhere. (First hand sources where I can get them.)
Pretending that groups are not victims certainly doesn't help them escape victimhood. You should do a little research into Black Wall Street or the Greenwood Massacre to get an idea of what happens when African Americans work hard and achieve.I agree, painting groups as victims doesn't help them escape victimhood. Watch out for the offended, though.
Thanks for that reference, I hadn't heard of that incident in particular. Is your focus on that the blacks there were aspirant or black ? Rhetorical question, I don't expect a response. My proposition, that depicting a group as victims, isn't helpful to them, is in the context of Aborigines. I'd prefer to keep out of debates about racism in the US.Pretending that groups are not victims certainly doesn't help them escape victimhood. You should do a little research into Black Wall Street or the Greenwood Massacre to get an idea of what happens when African Americans work hard and achieve.
I saw a doco on that incident a few years ago. Utterly despicable. The racial undercurrents in the US appear as long standing as they are seething....so many black victims over the last century (at least) of terrible and widespread injustices that we could barely comprehend from our relatively privilidged time and place in history.Pretending that groups are not victims certainly doesn't help them escape victimhood. You should do a little research into Black Wall Street or the Greenwood Massacre to get an idea of what happens when African Americans work hard and achieve.
I saw a doco on that incident a few years ago. Utterly despicable. The racial undercurrents in the US appear as long standing as they are seething....so many black victims over the last century (at least) of terrible and widespread injustices that we could barely comprehend from our relatively privilidged time and place in history.
Barely acknowledged and rarely if ever addressed, I find it utterley unsurprising the place is a tinderbox.
I can't even begin to imagine how you go about fixing something like that other than being certain Trump is not part of the solution...if there is one.Many of the ‘white males’ over there I talk to, feel like the current environment is discriminating against them. That the movement toward equality has gone too far. Women, African Americans, Latinos, Gay/Lesbian & Asian; are all getting jobs before them as a result of quota filling. Globalisation is causing corporations to move jobs offshore, which is making the situation worse. Less jobs = more angst.
Gun sales at record levels. I would say powder keg is a better description.
I can't even begin to imagine how you go about fixing something like that other than being certain Trump is not part of the solution...if there is one.
We're simply a few years behind the US. The PC crowd have the right idea, but in practice they completely overdo it and end up alienating large groups of people (in this case - young, straight, white males) who then become reactive and defensive. It's why at the same time as the world becoming more PC, we've also observed the rise in hateful right-wing trolls like Ben Shapiro, or even the more educated types with clear agendas like Jordan Peterson. Even a bunch of AFL players follow him.Many of the ‘white males’ over there I talk to, feel like the current environment is discriminating against them. That the movement toward equality has gone too far. Women, African Americans, Latinos, Gay/Lesbian & Asian; are all getting jobs before them as a result of quota filling. Globalisation is causing corporations to move jobs offshore, which is making the situation worse. Less jobs = more angst.
Gun sales at record levels. I would say powder keg is a better description.
I can't even begin to imagine how you go about fixing something like that other than being certain Trump is not part of the solution...if there is one.
....hateful right-wing trolls like Ben Shapiro, or even the more educated types with clear agendas like Jordan Peterson. Even a bunch of AFL players follow him.
...
Regarding Jordan Peterson, I highly recommend reading this essay:Oi, VD, what's wrong with cleaning up your room ?
Regarding Jordan Peterson, I highly recommend reading this essay:
I was Jordan Peterson’s strongest supporter. Now I think he’s dangerous
A former UofT colleague examines the bestselling author’s increasingly controversial positions and concludes in an opinion piece that Jordan Peterson is using fear to unleash ‘dark desires’www.thestar.com
Peterson I feel is far more dangerous than people like Milo, Ben Shapiro, etc. because they're basically trolls taking the low hanging fruit, saying controversial things for publicity then capitalising on that support. Peterson, on the other hand, is highly intelligent, and to put it bluntly - seems to be developing a pseudo-cult. He often contradicts his own rules which he built his following on, and he knows it
I dont know that I was piously criticising the Euro desnedants for being racist. I think I was simply repulsed by some of the racially motivated murderous rampages that a number of them participated in in days gone by.Trump is the beginning of the solution, like Brexit. Globalisation allowed Aus to go from Keating's banana republic and Mahatir's white trash of Asia to about the highest living standard in the World, 30 years of uninterrupted growth, in less than 40 years. Perhaps a reality check is happening.
Back to your doco. It's easy for us here to piously criticise the Britain and European descended majority in the US for being racist. Roughly 150 years after the US early settlers, our former convicts and later free settlers didn't face a fierce and aggressive indigenous nor a resentful and fearsome, to them, freed oppressed of striking physical and cultural difference. You could argue that genocide took care of that, I suppose. Significant numbers of non Brit-European descendeds here has only occurred in the last 40 years or so, in enlightened times. Had that occurred 100 years ago, in less enlightened times, we might have been very different.
So Trump might be a catalyst for change, the darkest hour before the dawn. Still, historically these things take many generations and hundreds of years to get to the point where bygones can truly be bygones. Not sure how our time of instant gratification is going to cope with this as I reckon weve got at least a hundred years to go and maybe more.
No, you weren't at all, your last dozen words or so illustrate that. we could barely comprehend from our relatively privilidged time and place in history. So many think that our lives are normal, we are super privileged. However abhorrent race relations appear, to us, to be in the US, is it any worse anywhere else in the World, excepting the Anglophone and parts of Western Europe ?I dont know that I was piously criticising the Euro desnedants for being racist. I think I was simply repulsed by some of the racially motivated murderous rampages that a number of them participated in in days gone by.