Current Claremont Murders - The Bunker

[JezzaPerth]

The Golden State killer came up with alternate personality "Jerry" to explain his criminality. I wonder if BRE will come up with say "Benny" as an excuse?

Split personality has featured a lot in fiction and film. There may be some truth in it, or it may be a way truly awful people try and rationalise and explain away their actions.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Does anyone think that SS could’ve potentially been dumped at John Forrest National Park or Greenmount National Park? It’s roughly 40odd kms from Claremont. Despite the short turn around, It still could’ve been done within those 4 hours or so. BRE wasn’t the best sleeper anyway. So to me it strikes as a possible scenario. Keen to hear your thoughts.

Both places are highly frequented. A body would be likely spotted if it was just dumped as at Pipidinny Rd and Woolcott Rd. As at both those locations the dumping site would be no more than 20 metres from a road or track navigable by a two wheel vehicle - and then only if there was no chance of getting bogged.

I'm forming the view that BRE at the time of the murders was unpredictable and risk taking; but not to the point of leaving evidence pointing to himself. A bogged vehicle was not an option (c.f. the Rayney murder where the disabled vehicle led to the body)

 

[the dark knight]

Both places are highly frequented. A body would be likely spotted if it was just dumped as at Pipidinny Rd and Woolcott Rd. As at both those locations the dumping site would be no more than 20 metres from a road or track navigable by a two wheel vehicle - and then only if there was no chance of getting bogged.

I'm forming the view that BRE at the time of the murders was unpredictable and risk taking; but not to the point of leaving evidence pointing to himself. A bogged vehicle was not an option (c.f. the Rayney murder where the disabled vehicle led to the body)

Thanks Jezza, Are there any less populated areas that still have dense bush around that area? Say within 10-15km?

 

[JezzaPerth]

Thanks Jezza, Are there any less populated areas that still have dense bush around that area? Say within 10-15km?

The scarp from Lesmurdie to Armadale has plenty of potential dump sites. The scarp was heavily logged a hundred years ago; the forest is very slowly regrowing but a present there is a lot of shorter trees and scrub that could be used for cover.

 

[the dark knight]

The scarp from Lesmurdie to Armadale has plenty of potential dump sites. The scarp was heavily logged a hundred years ago; the forest is very slowly regrowing but a present there is a lot of shorter trees and scrub that could be used for cover.

Thanks mate.

 

[Likeamystery]

Goodguy 72,

Below are a couple of women who were abducted or murdered and the perpetrator wasn't apprehended for those crimes.
A break occurred between 1999 and March 2002. There were five cases between 2002 and 2003. I only have limited details, and don't know if there were any more.

2003		Dec	Name supressed
2003	Sun	1 June	Judy M'ringu
2003	Tue	25 Mar	Darylyn Ugle	26
2002		April	Unnamed Female
2002	Mon	18 Mar	Christine Schipp
1999			Jennifer Wilby	23
1998	Tue	10 Nov	Lisa Brown	19

 

[Likeamystery]

Something that intrigues me, could it be possible, over the years a few men had befriended the accused but knew too much. We don't know if he always prowled or operated alone.

Over the years, umpteen men have gone missing too, and their disappearance is a complete mystery. It's also possible a male may have come to the aid of a woman who was being attacked.

 

[zedx]

Does anyone think that SS could’ve potentially been dumped at John Forrest National Park or Greenmount National Park? It’s roughly 40odd kms from Claremont. Despite the short turn around, It still could’ve been done within those 4 hours or so. BRE wasn’t the best sleeper anyway. So to me it strikes as a possible scenario. Keen to hear your thoughts.

Just remembered JFNP is locked at night, though there is an entrance where you can get into the Tavern, but its a very 'open' area and would not be suitable to discreetly dispose of a body.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Just remembered JFNP is locked at night, though there is an entrance where you can get into the Tavern, but its a very 'open' area and would not be suitable to discreetly dispose of a body.

There's lots of unlocked entrances to JFNP from the north; however they are unsealed and easy to bog (speaking from experience here)

 

[zedx]

Thanks Jezza, Are there any less populated areas that still have dense bush around that area? Say within 10-15km?

I have mentioned before the Coppin rd Bush area in Mundaring. Its just a little further up the highway from JFNP and across from Parkerville, turn right onto Coppin at Begonia Pets and Produce, Coppin rd goes to the tip, there's is a sharp elbow where if you went straight ahead (instead of following the road to the tip) you go straight into the forestry. Its about 44kms from Claremont which would put it at similar distance to the others.

 

[the dark knight]

I have mentioned before the Coppin rd Bush area in Mundaring. Its just a little further up the highway from JFNP and across from Parkerville, turn right onto Coppin at Begonia Pets and Produce, Coppin rd goes to the tip, there's is a sharp elbow where if you went straight ahead (instead of following the road to the tip) you go straight into the forestry. Its about 44kms from Claremont which would put it at similar distance to the others. View attachment 903146

Thank you. Fits the profile of being away from home. Would explain why JR and CG were dumped North and South respectively. Away from other victims so he isn’t seen twice in the same spot or immediate area.

 

[Likeamystery]

Does anyone think that SS could’ve potentially been dumped at John Forrest National Park or Greenmount National Park? It’s roughly 40odd kms from Claremont. Despite the short turn around, It still could’ve been done within those 4 hours or so. BRE wasn’t the best sleeper anyway. So to me it strikes as a possible scenario. Keen to hear your thoughts.

With regard to both national parks toward the east of Perth, I'll have a look at the couple of routes which are available from Claremont (Greenmount National Park and John Forest). There was a limited timeframe from the abduction to the next morning when the accused started work at Dumas House (8am). So I'll work out the kilometres via the various routes and you lot of "experts" can pick the information to pieces.

I'm aware of what roads/highways were built back then, and what were and still are quiet roads. The way I think, the routes taken would have been the quieter ones without many houses and streetlights etc.

 

[JezzaPerth]

With regard to both national parks toward the east of Perth, I'll have a look at the couple of routes which are available from Claremont (Greenmount National Park and John Forest). There was a limited timeframe from the abduction to the next morning when the accused started work at Dumas House (8am). So I'll work out the kilometres via the various routes and you lot of "experts" can pick the information to pieces.

I'm aware of what roads/highways were built back then, and what were and still are quiet roads. The way I think, the routes taken would have been the quieter ones without many houses and streetlights etc.

Throw in Toodyay Road as well. Non existent housing up the hill and lots of good dumping locations.

I set an orienteering course in Hovea on the south side of Toodyay Rd S & SW of Red Hill auditorium some time after 1995. That area would have been well and truly gone over by competitors (c.f. Orienteering and Belanglo forest murders)

 

[Likeamystery]

Does anyone think that SS could’ve potentially been dumped at John Forrest National Park or Greenmount National Park? It’s roughly 40odd kms from Claremont. Despite the short turn around, It still could’ve been done within those 4 hours or so. BRE wasn’t the best sleeper anyway. So to me it strikes as a possible scenario. Keen to hear your thoughts.

Darlington is a suburb near the two National forests. There’s a couple of routes which bypass Perth CBD:

Claremont to Darlington
37.2 kms (1.12mins) via Bassendean and Midland
37.8kms (58 mins) via Great Eastern Hwy

Claremont to Toodyay Rd, Stratton
34.5kms (47mins) via Toodyay Rd

Darlington to Huntingdale
29.6kms (32 mins) via Roe Hwy

(Northbridge Tunnel / Graham Farmer Fwy wasn’t built until 2000)

 

[the dark knight]

Even if SS wasn’t dumped the night she disappeared, The perp would’ve wanted to make a quick, efficient exercise of dumping the body. Regardless of the time frame IMO.

 

[the dark knight]

Darlington is a suburb near the two National forests. There’s a couple of routes which bypass Perth CBD:

Claremont to Darlington
37.2 kms (1.12mins) via Bassendean and Midland
37.8kms (58 mins) via Great Eastern Hwy

Claremont to Toodyay Rd, Stratton
34.5kms (47mins) via Toodyay Rd

Darlington to Huntingdale
29.6kms (32 mins) via Roe Hwy

(Northbridge Tunnel / Graham Farmer Fwy wasn’t built until 2000)

Thanks LAM. I’m not local, So I’m no expert, But I do think these routes plus the other mentioned above a quiet feasible. It’s not like BRE needed his sleep. Had done before and after work off the little to no sleep. From my perspective, I’ve done 12 hour shifts off not a minute sleep. As long as I kept working I was fine, As soon as I stopped tho, That’s when the fatigue really kicked in.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Darlington is a suburb near the two National forests. There’s a couple of routes which bypass Perth CBD:

Claremont to Darlington
37.2 kms (1.12mins) via Bassendean and Midland
37.8kms (58 mins) via Great Eastern Hwy

Darlington to Huntingdale
29.6kms (32 mins) via Roe Hwy

(Northbridge Tunnel / Graham Farmer Fwy wasn’t built until 2000)

When I travelled to that end of town from Floreat (close enough to Claremont) I'd usually go up Guildford Road. I'd get there by state route 72 and Vincent St. Sometimes when I came back I'd go via Morley Drive and the freeway - this is longer but about the same time.

A route from Claremont could also be Stirling Highway to Vic Park (State Route 5) and then up great eastern.
An alternative is Railway Rd / Stubbs Tce to Harborne St and then State Route 72/Guildford.

Routes involving State Route 72 are generally quicker.

Edit: on a Sunday morning at 9am it was just on 30 minutes from Floreat to MIdland Gate Bellvue via State route 72. From Claremont it would be another 5-7 minutes.
And for your reference downtown Perth to home in Huntingdale could be done in 19 minutes at 2am without breaking the speed limit.

 

[Likeamystery]

For those living external to WA, we people of WA are able to travel a considerable distance in a short amount of time. Apart from peak hours whilst travelling along the highways there's often minimal traffic and traffic lights and back in the 1990s we had the roads to ourselves - so to speak. We don't have to travel very far before there's virgin bushland or state forest.

Visitors from overseas have mentioned that we travel such a long way in one day.

 

[Likeamystery]

Thanks LAM. I’m not local, So I’m no expert, But I do think these routes plus the other mentioned above a quiet feasible. It’s not like BRE needed his sleep. Had done before and after work off the little to no sleep. From my perspective, I’ve done 12 hour shifts off not a minute sleep. As long as I kept working I was fine, As soon as I stopped tho, That’s when the fatigue really kicked in.

I agree. There's been no mention of BRE being a big drinker either, so that wasn't a factor. There was plenty of scope to travel to a remote area, then back to Huntingdale. The next day, have a shower and go to work.

BRE was a technician who worked for the government, and back then, how many government employees went to work and bullocked all day, not many! On the Saturday morning (27 Jan) BRE went to work, which was overtime. The Telstra team were probably not in a rush to finish the job. BRE finished at 9.45pm which is a long day - but possibly at double-time.

 

[the dark knight]

I agree. There's been no mention of BRE being a big drinker either, so that wasn't a factor. There was plenty of scope to travel to a remote area, then back to Huntingdale. The next day, have a shower and go to work.

BRE was a technician who worked for the government, and back then, how many government employees went to work and bullocked all day, not many! On the Saturday morning (27 Jan) BRE went to work, which was overtime. The Telstra team were probably not in a rush to finish the job. BRE finished at 9.45pm which is a long day - but possibly at double-time.

Double time makes it all worth going in tired or sick.

 

[zedx]

I agree. There's been no mention of BRE being a big drinker either, so that wasn't a factor. There was plenty of scope to travel to a remote area, then back to Huntingdale. The next day, have a shower and go to work.

BRE was a technician who worked for the government, and back then, how many government employees went to work and bullocked all day, not many! On the Saturday morning (27 Jan) BRE went to work, which was overtime. The Telstra team were probably not in a rush to finish the job. BRE finished at 9.45pm which is a long day - but possibly at double-time.

His co-worker did mention BRE had a drinking problem after the break up with wife 1.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Something that intrigues me, could it be possible, over the years a few men had befriended the accused but knew too much. We don't know if he always prowled or operated alone.

Over the years, umpteen men have gone missing too, and their disappearance is a complete mystery. It's also possible a male may have come to the aid of a woman who was being attacked.

Good thinking LAM! We don't know if he always operated alone. Perhaps he had a mate he prowled and scouted women with/and for whom he met on some revolting website? He could have murdered men too who got in the way, as you say. Wasn't there an unsolved murder of a bloke around the time of Julie Cutler's disappearance? So much more to be told about BRE, people to come forward who now feel safe enough to tell their stories. Maybe other charges to be laid in the future?
I keep thinking too about the access to people's private information he had through Telecom/Telstra. He also met both his wives via his job didn't he, if IIRC? So it gave him access to all manner of workplaces (and women!) he would never probably have any chance of meeting or interacting with?

 

[Likeamystery]

Good thinking LAM! We don't know if he always operated alone. Perhaps he had a mate he prowled and scouted women with/and for whom he met on some revolting website? He could have murdered men too who got in the way, as you say. Wasn't there an unsolved murder of a bloke around the time of Julie Cutler's disappearance? So much more to be told about BRE, people to come forward who now feel safe enough to tell their stories. Maybe other charges to be laid in the future?
I keep thinking too about the access to people's private information he had through Telecom/Telstra. He also met both his wives via his job didn't he, if IIRC? So it gave him access to all manner of workplaces (and women!) he would never probably have any chance of meeting or interacting with?

Yes in WA Peter Butt went missing on 18 June 1988. Julie Cutler went missing on 20 June 1988. I wonder if Peter came to Julie's aid and met with fate too.

Missing Person - Peter Butt • Crime Stoppers Western Australia

Peter Butt was last seen in East Victoria Park Western Australia on 18 June 1988.

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

 

[the dark knight]

I know this has been asked plenty of times. However, Considering with what we’ve heard in the trial. Does anybody believe that JC (1988)and SM (2000) are related to the Claremont Killings? I remember DM being a suspect with SM. However, I’m not 100% on it all. I was hoping for a local to fill the gaps. If you’re not comfortable discussing it on the thread, Feel free to PM me.

 

[Kurve]

I know this has been asked plenty of times. However, Considering with what we’ve heard in the trial. Does anybody believe that JC (1988)and SM (2000) are related to the Claremont Killings? I remember DM being a suspect with SM. However, I’m not 100% on it all. I was hoping for a local to fill the gaps. If you’re not comfortable discussing it on the thread, Feel free to PM me.

Not everybody agrees with me but I have BRE strongly for Julie Cutler's disappearance and I also have a slight suspicion for Gerard Ross. Not SM though imo.