Reid - "Crows in middle of a 4 year rebuild."

[Thetrader15]

Jenkins wasn't a damned if you do, damned if you do. Jenkins was a "don't do it".

Tex and Sloane - fine, they were performing well and this side was built around them. Gibbs was a gamble, sometimes you lose.

I know we like to bash Jenkins on this board, but actually go back and look at the facts. He was averaging over 40 goals a game while Tex was averaging over 50. He was also an important relief ruck, the type everyone is complaining we don't have now. You can argue the length was a year too long, but when you are where we were then, you run the risk on it.

The same thing will happen with Grundy getting 7 years...he will be 32 or 33 during his last year -> how do you think that will go?

 

[Thetrader15]

They had the chance to tie Jenkins up for cheap earlier in the year but screwed around and tried to play games. He had a good year so they panicked and offered him more money and more years than he was ever worth.

Got a source for this?

I'd suggest any opportunity we had was for the same $, and if it was for cheaper, that meant that JJ had a good year thus the payments weren't OTT.

We didn't sign him up for $800k!

 

[jackster83]

Jenkins wasn't a damned if you do, damned if you do. Jenkins was a "don't do it".

Tex and Sloane - fine, they were performing well and this side was built around them. Gibbs was a gamble, sometimes you lose.

Signing Betts and Sloane until they were 34 years old was a horrible list management decision. Just horrible.

Then there was Jacobs on $600k as a 31 year old.

Re-signing Lynch in 2018 when it was obvious our flag tilt was over AND we had Fog on the list already was a shocker too.

The Walker one was unfortunate because he got in and re-signed early. We're probably paying him $400k too much going by his form in the last 2-3 years.

 

[Golumless]

Signing Betts and Sloane until they were 34 years old was a horrible list management decision. Just horrible.

Then there was Jacobs on $600k as a 31 year old.

Re-signing Lynch in 2018 when it was obvious our flag tilt was over AND we had Fog on the list already was a shocker too.

The Walker one was unfortunate because he got in and re-signed early. We're probably paying him $400k too much going by his form in the last 2-3 years.

Sloane was ok, I was content with gambling that we'd be in contention until 2021 seeing the list was built was set to be. After that it would have been a case of being a leader for the next gen and spread out our drop in cap spend (seeing we need to maintain 95% TTP). Unfortunately, we destroyed that shot by shitting the bed and tearing everything down when we got close, as Adelaide does from time to time.

I also have no issue with Betts. Sure, small forwards aren't a position you prioritise, but he was the small forward in the AFL. Similar to Sloane, if we were managed properly elsewhere, it was fine. Like Sloane, that contract got Burtoned.

Jacobs is a *shrugs* moment. I doubt we've regretted that contract at all seeing we got every bit of good football out of him and really, it's only 2019 he was looking done. There is a bit of risk, but being cooked in the last season is an ok situation.

We should have never resigned Lynch for that reason, though, I'd argue it wasn't obvious our flag tilt was over at the time (I'd go one step further, it wasn't over). The time it was obvious was the end of last season when we stalled to a 2-9 record and we're getting pumped. Whilst I questioned the sustainability of our gameplan, seeing it seemed like a strategy to lose a semi-final, we had a mediocre season (which isn't uncommon when a team gets pumped in a grand final) and had bounced back to the top 4 at the half-way mark. Still, you always need an eye to the future, even when you are in your flag tilt. That and Lynch has always been a very overrated piece in our lineup.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Makes me sick that Pyke didn’t give an opportunity for youngsters.

 

[Vader]

Signing Betts and Sloane until they were 34 years old was a horrible list management decision. Just horrible.

Then there was Jacobs on $600k as a 31 year old.

Yep, agree 100% on those.

Re-signing Lynch in 2018 when it was obvious our flag tilt was over AND we had Fog on the list already was a shocker too.

What does re-signing Lynch have to do with Fog? I'm struggling to think of two less similar players.

• Fog is a like-for-like replacement for Tex - both are slow, lumbering lumps of muscle, lacking in anything resembling agility, who are largely useless unless played inside the F50.
• Lynch is a highly mobile running machine, who plays much further up the ground, whose primary role is delivering the ball to the targets inside 50.

If you'd said "re-signing Walker ... we had Fog on the list already was a shocker", then I would agree with you.

The Walker one was unfortunate because he got in and re-signed early. We're probably paying him $400k too much going by his form in the last 2-3 years.

Walker's contract was still 1 year too many. It wasn't as blatantly awful as the Betts & Sloane contracts, but it was still too long.

 

[Golumless]

Yep, agree 100% on those.

What does re-signing Lynch have to do with Fog? I'm struggling to think of two less similar players.

• Fog is a like-for-like replacement for Tex - both are slow, lumbering lumps of muscle, lacking in anything resembling agility, who are largely useless unless played inside the F50.
• Lynch is a highly mobile running machine, who plays much further up the ground, whose primary role is delivering the ball to the targets inside 50.

If you'd said "re-signing Walker ... we had Fog on the list already was a shocker", then I would agree with you.

Walker's contract was still 1 year too many. It wasn't as blatantly awful as the Betts & Sloane contracts, but it was still too long.

Because Lynch takes up one of the three spots a key forward can sit in any proper AFL lineup (and not something out there like our 2016-17 structure), and Lynch was out of contract.

It does not matter at all that they are different players, they are competing for the same position, being a third tall. The correct path was to let Lynch go, take a draft pick and rejig your forward structure to accommodate Fogarty. We got seduced by disposal counts instead of properly planning for the future, and that path is correct regardless of if we were going to contend in 2021 or blow up our list at the end of 2019.

 

[Scorpus]

Signing Betts and Sloane until they were 34 years old was a horrible list management decision. Just horrible.

Then there was Jacobs on $600k as a 31 year old.

Re-signing Lynch in 2018 when it was obvious our flag tilt was over AND we had Fog on the list already was a shocker too.

The Walker one was unfortunate because he got in and re-signed early. We're probably paying him $400k too much going by his form in the last 2-3 years.

Strangely enough, most of these contracts don't bother me all that much.

Jenkins - re-signed in 2016 coming off three 40+ goal seasons, in the middle of a premiership tilt. One year too long but not disastrous

Betts - re-signed at start of 2017, went on to have 55 goal season, contracted through to 2020 and is still playing serviceable football for Carlton

Sloane - two years too long but given he was our best player at the time, can understand the decision

Walker - signed until end of 2021 in 2017 coming off three 50 goal seasons and was captain. Took him to 31 which most AFL players can reach

Jacobs - signed a three year extension in 2015 (to 2019) when he was still a gun ruck, fell of a cliff in final year and left as an out of contract player

Lynch - could take or leave this one, but only signed for three years as a 27 year old and his final year he'll be 30, one of our better players at the time so not crazy

-----

The real problem isn't giving big or long contracts to our top players, it's giving unnecessarily large contracts to mediocre players

Hampton - why did we trade for him on a 3 year deal on good money? Retired with a year left and only played 12 games for us

Menzel - similar to Hampton but only played 4 games

Mackay - his original 4 year contract was totally unnecessary and then we backed that up with an extension. Ridiculous

Douglas - was cooked at the end of 2018 but we gave him a one year extension

Thompson - was cooked at the end of 2016 but we gave him a one year extension (losing Jarryd Lyons in the process)

Gibbs - epic fail

Hartigan - this one slid under the radar but we actually gave him a three year contract extension, totally unnecessary for a role player

Seedsman - another with a three year contract (to end of 2021), very long for a role player and has only played 16 games since

 

[Scorpus]

Walker's contract was still 1 year too many. It wasn't as blatantly awful as the Betts & Sloane contracts, but it was still too long.

I disagree, we signed Walker during a premiership tilt until the age of 31 which most AFL players are capable of playing to. It's far from a ridiculous contract for a player of his quality at the time (2017).

Walker has failed to uphold his end of the deal by playing at a reasonable standard for someone of his ability and age

 

[1970crow]

We didn't decide to rebuild at any point during the 2019 season, it was clearly made after the season was complete

Just have to look at round 23 selections

I doubt the realisation was even that early. Sauce, Greenwood and Keath all had deals in front of them. Just not as long as offered elsewhere. We extended Mackay. JJ sent packing as he was an agitator with loose lips. Betts we pushed a little bit, but Stengle had suggested quite strongly that he'd overtaken him in his 2 games. Dougie being the only aged based player forced out without contributing factors. It doesn't scream 2020 rebuild to me.

 

[1970crow]

What me thinking on the shitter or the draft ?

I’m finished now by the way so all good.

Hope a few other things were accomplished between those posts.

 

[Vader]

Because Lynch takes up one of the three spots a key forward can sit in any proper AFL lineup (and not something out there like our 2016-17 structure), and Lynch was out of contract.

It does not matter at all that they are different players, they are competing for the same position, being a third tall. The correct path was to let Lynch go, take a draft pick and rejig your forward structure to accommodate Fogarty. We got seduced by disposal counts instead of properly planning for the future, and that path is correct regardless of if we were going to contend in 2021 or blow up our list at the end of 2019.

Except that they're not competing for the same position, because their roles and characteristics/attributes are so completely different.

Fog is/was competing against Tex & JJ, as a player who predominantly plays inside the F50, and is virtually incapable of making an impact anywhere else on the ground. He's not competing with Lynch, who does most of his work between the 50m arcs.

 

[Vader]

I disagree, we signed Walker during a premiership tilt until the age of 31 which most AFL players are capable of playing to. It's far from a ridiculous contract for a player of his quality at the time (2017).

Walker has failed to uphold his end of the deal by playing at a reasonable standard for someone of his ability and age

It's not as bad as the Sloane & Betts contracts, but it was still 1 year too many - given that he's always looked banged up, ever since the knee injury.

 

[Kezza86]

Depending what happens with Crouch, the crows will have a good draft hand. They will draft Thilthorpe, high quality mid (hopefully pick 2), then NGA & FS players like Edwards, Newchurch & Borlase. You could also trade Lynch and Laird along letting Atkins go. Further target a player in Free Agency or offer biggish money to younger SA guns. Next year crows will be marginally improve before seeing the rewards the following year in 2022.

 

[jenny61_99]

Jenkins wasn't a damned if you do, damned if you do. Jenkins was a "don't do it".

Tex and Sloane - fine, they were performing well and this side was built around them. Gibbs was a gamble, sometimes you lose.

Bullshit! He’d just come off a sixty goal season.

 

[SugarShane]

I'd be very surprised if our mass exodus wasn't the reason a lot of these guys ended up on contracts that were "one year too long".

When you've got the whole football world getting stuck into you about players not wanting to be here, I think we overshot on a lot of people who were willing to sign purely because they were willing to sign.

"People don't wanna be here? Look, Sloane wants to be here for 4 more years."

 

[Vhaluus]

Bullshit! He’d just come off a sixty goal season.

a sixty goal season where he placed WHERE in our best and fairest?

Let's not pretend his season was something spectacular.

Be was a huge benificiary of our play style.

 

[Vhaluus]

I'd be very surprised if our mass exodus wasn't the reason a lot of these guys ended up on contracts that were "one year too long".

When you've got the whole football world getting stuck into you about players not wanting to be here, I think we overshot on a lot of people who were willing to sign purely because they were willing to sign.

"People don't wanna be here? Look, Sloane wants to be here for 4 more years."

I think we all realized that even at the time.

 

[relapse]

Got a source for this?

I'd suggest any opportunity we had was for the same $, and if it was for cheaper, that meant that JJ had a good year thus the payments weren't OTT.

We didn't sign him up for $800k!

There were rumours at the time that we did end up having to give him more than he originally asked for and things got a bit dirty to the point of where Roo sent JJ a curt SMS message having a crack at him after the deal was signed.

We originally offered him 2 years and he wanted 3, then Brisbane came into the picture and we ended up giving Jenkins a five year deal.

 

[FAITH]

More lies and bullshit from these clowns.

If we were in the middle of a rebuild, we would've traded aggressively and hit the SA loaded Super Draft - instead, most of the players we've traded are those who desperately wanted out... And we traded in a 30 year old, within view of the 4 year rebuilding window?

What a load of sh*t.

Kane is a massive tool, but he's right in this case;

“They’re not halfway through a rebuild, they’re at the start line of a rebuild that could take four to five years.”

"This is rock bottom": Cornes refutes suggestion over Crows rebuild

“They are at the start line.”

www.sen.com.au

we're such a s**t club atm.

 

[MRB37]

They had the chance to tie Jenkins up for cheap earlier in the year but screwed around and tried to play games. He had a good year so they panicked and offered him more money and more years than he was ever worth.

He had an offer from Brisbane on the table for more money per year than ours. We made up for it by increasing our offer from 4 years to 5.

 

[Minor Threat]

22 year rebuild and counting

 

[King Elvis]

At least three of those that went wanted to stay. We wouldn’t offer theM, the length of contract they wanted.

Which 3?

Keath? Greenwood? CEY?

We still didn’t proactively trade them - they left for better offers.

 

[SugarShane]

Where does recalling Mackay instead of playing a kid put you in the rebuild clock?

 

[BACCS]

Strangely enough, most of these contracts don't bother me all that much.

Jenkins - re-signed in 2016 coming off three 40+ goal seasons, in the middle of a premiership tilt. One year too long but not disastrous

Betts - re-signed at start of 2017, went on to have 55 goal season, contracted through to 2020 and is still playing serviceable football for Carlton

Sloane - two years too long but given he was our best player at the time, can understand the decision

Walker - signed until end of 2021 in 2017 coming off three 50 goal seasons and was captain. Took him to 31 which most AFL players can reach

Jacobs - signed a three year extension in 2015 (to 2019) when he was still a gun ruck, fell of a cliff in final year and left as an out of contract player

Lynch - could take or leave this one, but only signed for three years as a 27 year old and his final year he'll be 30, one of our better players at the time so not crazy

-----

The real problem isn't giving big or long contracts to our top players, it's giving unnecessarily large contracts to mediocre players

Hampton - why did we trade for him on a 3 year deal on good money? Retired with a year left and only played 12 games for us

Menzel - similar to Hampton but only played 4 games

Mackay - his original 4 year contract was totally unnecessary and then we backed that up with an extension. Ridiculous

Douglas - was cooked at the end of 2018 but we gave him a one year extension

Thompson - was cooked at the end of 2016 but we gave him a one year extension (losing Jarryd Lyons in the process)

Gibbs - epic fail

Hartigan - this one slid under the radar but we actually gave him a three year contract extension, totally unnecessary for a role player

Seedsman - another with a three year contract (to end of 2021), very long for a role player and has only played 16 games since

You’re just about the best hindsight poster on this board. How were Hampton and Menzel mediocre players when we traded for them? They didn’t turn out well here but both were supremely talented players and one was a first round pick. Both had shown decent form at AFL level that we were hoping would develop further in a new environment. It didn’t, s**t happens.

Gibbs was traded in after we failed in the GF and were pushing for a flag. It’s a fail in hindsight but was the right decision at the time.

Don’t disagree with the rest but gee you love to pot decisions with the benefit of hindsight.