List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

[The Spirit of Cricket]

yeah the problem isn't how many over-30s we have it's that we don't have as much elite young talent as most other clubs (that have consistently performed at any rate)

i'm sure that will change as our older players get moved on and we go to the draft again this year as well as have a fish around free agency/trading to fill the holes they leave

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Are Geelong really challenging for a premiership though or just challenging for finals? they consistently fall short when it counts.

They've made 3 prelims in the last 4 seasons, I'd probably say that's enough to say you're challenging.

 

[MrPremiership]

They've made 3 prelims in the last 4 seasons, I'd probably say that's enough to say you're challenging.

100% they're challenging.

They've got some good kids, Constable can't even get a game.

And they've got 3 1st round picks this year.

List is looking healthy.

 

[rei154]

100% they're challenging.

They've got some good kids, Constable can't even get a game.

And they've got 3 1st round picks this year.

List is looking healthy.

Genuinely impressive with how theyve gone about their list management. Can anyone remember how they swung three first rounders?

 

[MrPremiership]

Genuinely impressive with how theyve gone about their list management. Can anyone remember how they swung three first rounders?

2 first rounders for Tim Kelly trade

 

[Spursfan]

They've made 3 prelims in the last 4 seasons, I'd probably say that's enough to say you're challenging.

They were embarrassingly flogged in 2 of those though. Which is my point they are a consistent finals side without really coming close to winning a flag (granted last year they really were in with a shot of beating Richmond)

Look they may win well a flag this year due to extraordinary circumstances we'll see.

 

[Mississippi]

I still don't understand the argument. Same as MSM, one comment gets made and just regurgitated be all and sundry.

I don't see why you would then argue that the number of over 30s is an issue for us. It's just that some of them are underperforming.

Burgoyne is still going well, ditto Smith and McEvoy.
For all the crap Frawley gets, he's actually solid.
Henderson is having a bad patch, may be injury related or a different role. But he was 2nd in the BnF only 6 games ago.

Poppy, Stratts - probably time to go.

The Cats comparison is very pertinent. They haven't won many finals in the last 5 years either, was it 5 out of 12?. A Smith kick goes straighter and the story changes alot.

Selwood was heavily struggling during parts of last season and even early this season. Ditto Hawkins last year and people were asking Ablett to go last year. Over 30s have bad form and everyone wants them to retire. Wasn't the spotlight on Luke Hodge in 2012?

If you then want to argue our kids haven't set the world on fire, then go ahead, that is probably a fair argument. But has nothing to do with our over 30s list.

I have no problem with Frawley, I agree he’s unfairly maligned, and Henderson has been a really good value pick up. But he’s battling now and should be struggling to keep his spot. Maginness should be playing in his position this week.
But Poppy and Stratton should have been cut last year - they were both struggling last year and it was apparent then that they should not have played on. That‘s two over 30s we should not have to be dealing with at the end of this year.

Logically their places in the team should have been inherited by younger quicker players. We had the depth to replace Stratton but unfortunately a couple of them have been injured this year.

We should have recruited for a Poppy replacement last year but perhaps we thought that someone like Hanrahan would take his spot. The irony is that, given the lack of a Poppy (and Cyril) replacement, we have tried to put a 36 year old (Burgoyne) into the small forward position instead of a young talent.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Are Geelong really challenging for a premiership though or just challenging for finals? they consistently fall short when it counts.

And we were the best team until we weren't. Given their results so far you just can't write them off, they will push top four and hopefully just fail from there.

 

[PhatHQ]

I have no problem with Frawley, I agree he’s unfairly maligned, and Henderson has been a really good value pick up. But he’s battling now and should be struggling to keep his spot. Maginness should be playing in his position this week.
But Poppy and Stratton should have been cut last year - they were both struggling last year and it was apparent then that they should not have played on. That‘s two over 30s we should not have to be dealing with at the end of this year.

Logically their places in the team should have been inherited by younger quicker players. We had the depth to replace Stratton but unfortunately a couple of them have been injured this year.

We should have recruited for a Poppy replacement last year but perhaps we thought that someone like Hanrahan would take his spot. The irony is that, given the lack of a Poppy (and Cyril) replacement, we have tried to put a 36 year old (Burgoyne) into the small forward position instead of a young talent.

There is a kid starting for the Bombers this week that I would bet my left nut Hawthorn wanted on their list.
Ned Cahill will be a little ripper I recon

 

[Mississippi]

There is a kid starting for the Bombers this week that I would bet my left nut Hawthorn wanted on their list.
Ned Cahill will be a little ripper I recon

Hmmm

Cahill went at pick 56 - 2019 draft.
We had pick 57 and took Josh Morris.
I’ll now be forever comparing the careers of Cahill and Morris.

I hope Morris is a star and Cahill a dismal failure.
Or better still, Essendon cuts both Cahill and Mosquito, we then pick them both up and they become multi premiership players In the brown and gold.

 

[eldorado]

Once Geelong hit the stage we are at they will have the same questions asked of them.

Can't wait for Geelong to lose 2 games in a row then.

Then I'll know they're nowhere near a flag for 5 years...

 

[SA HAWK]

100% they're challenging.

They've got some good kids, Constable can't even get a game.

And they've got 3 1st round picks this year.

List is looking healthy.

They seem to be in a similar position listwise to us but their over 30's perform much better than ours keeping them in contention most years.

 

[rei154]

I think Geelong's succession plan is more evident to others due to how they blood their kids compared to us- they're also playing a more attacking gamestyle which keeps the heat off em as there's a higher risk factor with that play style.
I'd love for us to adopt their approach to somethings; blooding kids, resting seniors (when needed) and they seem to be a lot more brutal when it comes to cutting from their 22 (I could be wrong here).
I suppose the big question on my mind is do we have a clear line of succession for our next wings coming through?
From what I can tell Golds is our only genuine winger waiting... in the wings- whilst we have hopes for Finn and Day to take on those roles do we have anyone else in stock there?

 

[Mississippi]

Can't wait for Geelong to lose 2 games in a row then.

Then I'll know they're nowhere near a flag for 5 years...

What a cute bit of understatement - merely losing 2 games in a row.
If only it were that simple and glib.

In reality, the 2 losses were so disgraceful that the even the coach criticised the midfield as 4 th rate and former club champions came out and said that we we not even contesting, not even turning up. It’s rare for Hawthorn people of that calibre to be so critical and outspoken - for good reason.
Our lack of talent and effort was so embarrassing - with multi-premiership players even ducking their heads or avoiding the contest - that it quite rightly resulted in a storm of criticism. By the coach - as well as media as well as posters on this forum.

Gloss over it if you feel so inclined - merely as 2 consecutive losses - and despite the fact we’re sitting 3 and 3 - there‘s a lot of credit and respect that now has to be re-earned.

 

[eldorado]

What a cute bit of understatement - merely losing 2 games in a row.
If only it were that simple and glib.



Gloss over it if you feel so inclined - merely as 2 consecutive losses - and despite the fact we’re sitting 3 and 3 - there‘s a lot of credit and respect that now has to be re-earned.

I reserve the right to simple and glib, if for no other reason than to act as some sort of counterpoint to the unmitigated horseshit here.

And I'm not glossing over the last two games...they were two horrible games...but they were two games. Regardless of the state of mind of people here, they WERE two games, not 2 years of the same

The way people jump here, it seems only the last two games were who really are, and who we will be for the next few years...and by their very nature, our 3 wins were by some team from another century, and anyone who wants to even reference the fact that we are...believe it or not...actually 3 and 3...is dismissed as a fanboi, or rose-coloured glass wearer.

I really learn absolutely nothing about our club reading most posts here. I only learn about peoples' states of mind, and the human tendency to lean towards pessimism.

Where I agree with you is that we need to re earn respect. Where I disagree is that the losses are where we are at, but the wins somehow aren't

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

Genuinely impressive with how theyve gone about their list management. Can anyone remember how they swung three first rounders?

They also traded pick 27 last year for this years 11. Still don't like how Gold Coast were allowed to do that with a future priority pick.

 

[Gralin]

Not sure why you call lack of youth a misconception. We have 7 players on our list over 30.That is not good.

Redarding the VFL flag two years ago, there really isn’t a lot of talent from that team who will bridge the gap to good senior AFL. CJ and Ross are hopefuls. Cousins and Moore are battlers who most likely won’t make the cut. Not sure who “etc” is but I’d class him as very doubtful also.

Nash, Hanrahan and Glass have all been given chances - Lewis Worpel and O’Brien are all playing senior football and the others from that Box Hill side have been given the flick.

How does having 7 players over 30 on the list prove we lack youth?

 

[hamohawk1]

They've made 3 prelims in the last 4 seasons, I'd probably say that's enough to say you're challenging.

They should've won the prelim last year too but s**t the bed in the third. 26 points up at that stage.

Geelong are still going to contend for a year or two yet.

 

[PhatHQ]

I reserve the right to simple and glib, if for no other reason than to act as some sort of counterpoint to the unmitigated horseshit here.

And I'm not glossing over the last two games...they were two horrible games...but they were two games. Regardless of the state of mind of people here, they WERE two games, not 2 years of the same

The way people jump here, it seems only the last two games were who really are, and who we will be for the next few years...and by their very nature, our 3 wins were by some team from another century, and anyone who wants to even reference the fact that we are...believe it or not...actually 3 and 3...is dismissed as a fanboi, or rose-coloured glass wearer.

I really learn absolutely nothing about our club reading most posts here. I only learn about peoples' states of mind, and the human tendency to lean towards pessimism.

Where I agree with you is that we need to re earn respect. Where I disagree is that the losses are where we are at, but the wins somehow aren't

I must interject here... we were s**t last year prior to the bye and strung a few games together to push for top 8. We could have just as easily finished 12-14 if not for the “fun” and “love of the game” ridden to September.
Rose coloured glasses or not, there have been issues on the list and game style for a while. There is enough of a sample size over the last 2 years to suggest that we aren’t that good but aren’t that bad either, which I find worse. We we’ll be compared to ninthmond , North, Stkilda and Melbourne in no time if the trajectory continues.

 

[hamohawk1]

No one is paying a 2nd rounder for O'Brien. So really no point in trading him this year. He's contracted til end of 2021 and a free agent at that time.

Lewis is such an unknown, he's not going for a 2nd rounder either.

Fanciful discussion.

If TOB is worth a 2nd round pick, i could be a late chance at being top-3 as a mature age.

He's got absolutely no value IMO, likely to be picked up as a delisted free agent.

 

[eldorado]

I must interject here.... We we’ll be compared to Premiershipmond, North, Stkilda and Melbourne in no time if the trajectory continues.

I don't disagree.

But is it too much to ask that we all actually...WAIT TO SEE THE TRAJECTORY?????

I don't think think I was made for these times.. I see some peoples 'bold decisiveness' as emotional rashness'

As a rule, one shouldn't make decisions when angry, just as one shouldn't go shopping when hungry...the same applies to predictions.

This applies both to those who were locking in top 4 when we were 3-1, as well as those pulling the bricks down after our last fortnight.

I DO understand the anger...if you saw and heard me on Friday, you would know (I also learned on Friday that one should never throw one's Ugg-boot at the wall when suffering from adhesive capsulitis, but that's another story)

 

[Gralin]

Probably need a few more years in the wilderness to be on a Dee's trajectory, Saints haven't won enough flags to be considered in their same ballpark I wouldn't think.

 

[HawkVan]

Can't wait for Geelong to lose 2 games in a row then.

Then I'll know they're nowhere near a flag for 5 years...

Alternatively, we can look at each sides past 28 games. Or five years. Because this is the actual point.

Let's not confuse this debate, this should be nothing to do with two losses. But, if those two losses start to bring this debate into the open, and in the open, the club starts to honestly review our list... great.

The following players have been playing most games this year and will be gone soon: Smith, McEvoy, Frawley, Burgoyne, Stratton, Henderson, Scully, Patton*, Puopolo. That's nine players we need to replace, albeit most are not performing greatly.

On top of this nine; O'Brien, Ceglar and Hanrahan have played most games. So that makes 12 players you could argue we need to replace if we are going to have a squad capable of contending.

We all love our club, and look at players as a hawks fan, but outside of Worpel, Day, Scrimshaw, Lewis and maybe McGinness, we simply cannot expect we are going to turn each rookie listed player, or fourth round pick, into another Bruest or Poppy.

Everyone went crazy on Cousins last year, we do it every year. But our group of under 22 talent is a long way off thinking we can fill the gaps organically without a clear shift in mentality from the club.

We are miles off man.

 

[hamohawk1]

Alternatively, we can look at each sides past 28 games. Or five years. Because this is the actual point.

Let's not confuse this debate, this should be nothing to do with two losses. But, if those two losses start to bring this debate into the open, and in the open, the club starts to honestly review our list... great.

The following players have been playing most games this year and will be gone soon: Smith, McEvoy, Frawley, Burgoyne, Stratton, Henderson, Scully, Patton*, Puopolo. That's nine players we need to replace, albeit most are not performing greatly.

On top of this nine; O'Brien, Ceglar and Hanrahan have played most games. So that makes 12 players you could argue we need to replace if we are going to have a squad capable of contending.

That's how far off we are man.

Can see Smith, Mcevoy and Frawley staying around for the next 2-3 years, rest can be gone at the end of the year.

Time to have new 'depth' in the ranks

 

[eldorado]

to bring this debate into the open, and in the open, the club starts to honestly review our list... ******* great.

Please..

There is no 'debate' that is only finally occuring thanks to the boldness of a number of unconnected observers on the internet.

There is the real, continual debate, behind closed doors, made by the people who have been placed in charge, who set the targets, see the problems, and look for solutions.

Every week.

They're certainly not 'starting' now, and even more certainly not because a bunch of weeners on the net are keeping them 'honest'

Don't confuse the pointless and only partially informed babble we do here as anything significant in bringing about real change, or somehow having a role in the real world.

This site is piss and wind. We all like piss and wind, of course, bu we shouldn't start thinking that we are playaz ...in the great game...

that makes 12 players you could argue we need to replace if we are going to have a squad capable of contending.

That's how far off we are man.

No, that's how far off someone on the internet feels we are after two bad losses.