PS4 The Last of Us Part II - PS5 Remaster coming Jan 19

Remove this Banner Ad

theiaofseed said:
You know animal in the wild recover from gun shot wounds right? Btw it grazed the orbital lobe, that's more than just a little survivalable.

Tommy lost his wife, brother(best friend) and is now disabled, left to wollow for months if you don't understand how that can warp your perception you understand little about the human psychological state, it is nonsensical, it isnt rational but it's human.
Click to expand...

Wow, no need to be so aggressive with your reply. The fanboys of this game who can't handle any criticism of this game is as bad as the haters who go over the top because there are girls in the game

Erm, animals surviving a shot to the back of the head? Please cite evidence. Shot in some other part of the body, sure, but you do know Tommy got blown close to point blank from the back of the head. No one's surviving that without at least a brain surgeon, who's gonna tend to him deep in WLF territory?

Psychology is literally my job but cheers, I am sure you will know far more about it than I do. You can explain any plothole with "but humans are irrational" or it can just be a silly story with contrived writing.
 
Last edited:
bourbons said:
I mean, yeah, its a bit of a stretch Tommy surviving based in how they showed him getting shot, but is it any more of a stretch than Joel surviving falling a few stories, getting impaled then being up and back to normal a month later in the first game? I'd suggest not.

As mentioned, it wasn't that he's not willing to go after Abby, he physically can't, this point is literally included in the dialogue. And I think its safe to say he wasn't in a great headspace, as evidenced by him breaking up with Maria, which goes some way to explaining his unreasonable ask of Ellie.

Saw someone say they could have just had Maria tell Ellie about the Abby lead, allowing them to keep Tommy dead. That would make even less sense imo - she never wanted Tommy to go in the first place and told Ellie to bring him back safe. If he died, I doubt she'd want anything at all further to do with Ellie and the reason Tommy died.
Click to expand...

Joel survived because the Fireflies taught Ellie first aid and she stitched the wound. A wound on Joel's side is a little different to being shot close to point blank on the back of the head.

The 2nd game takes physical immunity to a new level. Ellie got strung upside down with a wound on her side, bleeding for hours without help but she was fine.

I mean, I think it'd make more sense for Maria to want revenge for her own husband than Tommy suddenly doing a 180 and put Ellie in harms way when he literally begged Ellie to leave him to die so Abby can't kill her. We can't think it's too forced for Maria to want revenge but it's okay for Tommy, kinda just inconsistent there

As a side note, I don't like Abby as a character either. I understand her wanting to kill Joel, but her side of the story shows her to be a massive hypocrite and a bit of a psychopath tbh. Almost all the new characters are pretty bad except for Lev. They feel like that annoying teenage cast from Until Dawn
 
Purple Suit said:
Same, got it done last night. Stayed up to 1am with the ending stretching out a bit more than I anticipated. Looking back, it was fine and I should have just had a break.

Amazing game, I cannot understand any of the hate out there. Some gamers really need to grow up or we won’t get nice things. Hopefully it’s the pandemic fueling it and it doesn’t become the norm for when developers take story risks instead of cookie cutter ones.

It’s like being upset if your team plays in a cracking game that is a draw. You might not like the outcome but don’t hate on the game.
Click to expand...

Neil and the ND team knew there would be a huge backlash and hate towards this game, but that doesn’t excuse any of the s**t they’ve copped, disgraceful behavior from a lot of people out there.

I too hope this doesn’t lead developers to start taking the ‘safe option’.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

UnitedWarrior93 said:
Neil and the ND team knew there would be a huge backlash and hate towards this game, but that doesn’t excuse any of the sh*t they’ve copped, disgraceful behavior from a lot of people out there.

I too hope this doesn’t lead developers to start taking the ‘safe option’.
Click to expand...

Yeah to those people who abused Neil and the team at ND via social media are a disgrace these people worked their asses off to make the game. you can hate the game/not like it but don't abuse the people behind it.

Happens in Hollywood to like poor Kelly Marie Tran who played Rose Tico in Star Wars she got so much abuse that she quit her social media accounts.
 
Finished this over the last few days as I’ve been home sick. The visuals in this are crazy! There’s just so many minute details like Ellie’s bracelet sliding down her arm when she raises it. In that article above, the staff would play the game and pick up on things like the cheese in a burger not looking correct!

As for the story:
I went in with no knowledge of what was going to happen except that there was some hate for gay and transgender characters.

Joel having his head bludgeoned really took me by surprise but made a lot of sense in the context of how the narrative would work.

I love how the game subverted our expectations and made us play as Abby and force us to empathise with her over time and how it made Ellie, not necessarily become the bad guy but blurred those lines for her. It’s people doing what they can do to survive. The ending wasn’t as impactful as the first but it was still incredibly well done and it was such a high bar for ND to reach after that incredible ending from #1.
 
bok_party said:
Finished this over the last few days as I’ve been home sick. The visuals in this are crazy! There’s just so many minute details like Ellie’s bracelet sliding down her arm when she raises it. In that article above, the staff would play the game and pick up on things like the cheese in a burger not looking correct!

As for the story:
I went in with no knowledge of what was going to happen except that there was some hate for gay and transgender characters.

Joel having his head bludgeoned really took me by surprise but made a lot of sense in the context of how the narrative would work.

I love how the game subverted our expectations and made us play as Abby and force us to empathise with her over time and how it made Ellie, not necessarily become the bad guy but blurred those lines for her. It’s people doing what they can do to survive. The ending wasn’t as impactful as the first but it was still incredibly well done and it was such a high bar for ND to reach after that incredible ending from #1.
Click to expand...
Playing the “villain” was a master stroke. Can’t remember a game doing that before and it works so well with video games to tell the story, show perspective and character motives. The amount of backlash and people who shat the bed over it worries me about empathy in the world. It’s a revenge story and beautifully crafted, the theme’s are top shelf, even if the emotional feels are not.

I wonder if they make a third, happy, redemption game that cures the infection? Everyone loves it but over time, look back at number 2 as the important, better game like Empire Strikes Back is now referred to although not appreciated as much at the time.
 
Cooldude said:
Wow, no need to be so aggressive with your reply. The fanboys of this game who can't handle any criticism of this game is as bad as the haters who go over the top because there are girls in the game

Erm, animals surviving a shot to the back of the head? Please cite evidence. Shot in some other part of the body, sure, but you do know Tommy got blown close to point blank from the back of the head. No one's surviving that without at least a brain surgeon, who's gonna tend to him deep in WLF territory?

Psychology is literally my job but cheers, I am sure you will know far more about it than I do. You can explain any plothole with "but humans are irrational" or it can just be a silly story with contrived writing.
Click to expand...
Are you stating that depression has no affect on someone's decision making?:think:

I'm all fine if you want to criticise the game for valid criticisms like pacing or being unable to connect the player to Abby but stating false claims to prove inconsistencies or plotholes is another thing entirely.

Tommy's gun shot wound was isolated to the one hemisphere, located in the outer orbital lobe, from a low power handgun with a clean exit wound, this is a very survivable injury, long as the person doesn't lose consciousness for an extended period.

You should also the injury was to his right side of the brain which influences attention, memory, reasoning, and problem solving. :oops:
 
theiaofseed said:
Are you stating that depression has no affect on someone's decision making?:think:

I'm all fine if you want to criticise the game for valid criticisms like pacing or being unable to connect the player to Abby but stating false claims to prove inconsistencies or plotholes is another thing entirely.

Tommy's gun shot wound was isolated to the one hemisphere, located in the outer orbital lobe, from a low power handgun with a clean exit wound, this is a very survivable injury, long as the person doesn't lose consciousness for an extended period.

You should also the injury was to his right side of the brain which influences attention, memory, reasoning, and problem solving. :oops:
Click to expand...

Actually even with depression, people's actions still follow some form of logical pattern.

Wait, did you get the CT scan or MRI of the exact injury to Tommy's head for you to get that specific with the anatomy or are you just pulling it outta your ass? I suspect the latter. I did not know you were a neurosurgeon, were you the one who operated on Tommy?

I am amazed at the bullshit you're making up to defend an obvious plot hole, Neil Druckman should've hired you to write

Woah you sound like a full blown reddit fanboi getting offended because your game got criticised. Now that we know you're a neurosurgeon and psychiatrist, would you like to let us know your next list of qualifications and expertise?

I am sorry I criticised your beloved game btw. Now you can relax ;)
 
Last edited:
Cooldude said:
Actually even with depression, people's actions still follow some form of logical pattern.

Wait, did you get the CT scan or MRI of the exact injury to Tommy's head for you to get that specific with the anatomy or are you just pulling it outta your ass? I suspect the latter. I did not know you were a neurosurgeon, were you the one who operated on Tommy?

I am amazed at the bullshit you're making up to defend an obvious plot hole, Neil Druckman should've hired you to write

Woah you sound like a full blown reddit fanboi getting offended because your game got criticised. Now that we know you're a neurosurgeon and psychiatrist, would you like to let us know your next list of qualifications and expertise?

I am sorry I criticised your beloved game btw. Now you can relax ;)
Click to expand...
Oh but you saw the CT scan right? You know exactly where the entry point was? I'm making no more extreme claims of the injury than yourself, difference being I'm actually using the evidence of the aftermath to give a valid explanation to why the outcome was as such.

You sure you have a psychiatric degree? You're going to ignore affects of damage to the right hemisphere something well covered in that area of work? Mate basic knowledge in subjects doesn't require qualifications and degrees, it needs a basic literacy skill set and boredom.😚

If you want to actually see my opinion of the game look back to my earlier post, It's okay we understand the game hurt your fragile masculinity
 
Cooldude said:
Joel survived because the Fireflies taught Ellie first aid and she stitched the wound. A wound on Joel's side is a little different to being shot close to point blank on the back of the head.

The 2nd game takes physical immunity to a new level. Ellie got strung upside down with a wound on her side, bleeding for hours without help but she was fine.

I mean, I think it'd make more sense for Maria to want revenge for her own husband than Tommy suddenly doing a 180 and put Ellie in harms way when he literally begged Ellie to leave him to die so Abby can't kill her. We can't think it's too forced for Maria to want revenge but it's okay for Tommy, kinda just inconsistent there

As a side note, I don't like Abby as a character either. I understand her wanting to kill Joel, but her side of the story shows her to be a massive hypocrite and a bit of a psychopath tbh. Almost all the new characters are pretty bad except for Lev. They feel like that annoying teenage cast from Until Dawn
Click to expand...

Just re-watched the cutscene, its not actually a shot to the back of the head (I thought it was too up till this point). The whole back of Tommy's head is untouched, bullet just clipped him on the side of the face, check it out;

tommy.jpg

Considering that, his survival is certainly plausible.

Maria's priority has been shown over the course of both games to be completely focussed on the well being of the Jackson settlement, personally I doubt she'd even want to see Ellie again in the first place, let alone pressure her to take revenge for her. To be clear, its not exactly what you'd expect of Tommy either, but I think they dropped enough hints about his compromised state of mind for it to work. The dialogue about him no longer being together with Maria isn't there by accident.

Ellie's side of the story doesn't? (show her to be a psycho?) I actually don't think the game expects you to identify or 'side' with anyone, one of the more interesting and risky things about it. One of the main things I took away is there are usually no 'good' or 'bad' guys, just people trying to survive.

Anyhow, love the (rational) discussion this game generates :thumbsu:
 
Last edited:
bourbons said:
Been clicking around the interwebz now that I've finished the game.. oh boy, there are some very maladjusted people out there. You'd think Druckmann personally murdered their firstborn reading some of that sh*t :drunk:

But there has been a bit of good to go with the bad.

Dunno who has the time to get this good on a controller based guitar simulator but fair play to em, pretty awesome;



Click to expand...



I don’t think I appreciated this part of the game enough during my playthough.
Just look at Ellies finger movements, Bloody hell amazing!

This part while exploring the music shop in Seattle is one of my favourites, made me choke up a bit, I love my 80’s music and Ellie plays a great rendition of ’Take On Me’.

 
Last edited:
giggler99 said:
I don’t think I appreciated this part of the game enough during my playthough.
Just look at Ellies finger movements, Bloody hell amazing!

This part while exploring the music shop in Seattle is one of my favourites, made be choke up a bit, I love my 80’s music and Ellie plays a great rendition of ’Take On Me’.

Click to expand...


The animation whenever Ellie is playing a guitar is absolutely nuts.

Yep that was one of my favourite parts too, so crazy that you can miss that scene if you don't go exploring.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

bourbons said:
The animation whenever Ellie is playing a guitar is absolutely nuts.

Yep that was one of my favourite parts too, so crazy that you can miss that scene if you don't go exploring.
Click to expand...
I think Ashley did it. Someone at ND shared a clip of Ashley and Shannon in mocap suits doing the scene.
But there would of still been people touching up the animations
 
theiaofseed said:
Oh but you saw the CT scan right? You know exactly where the entry point was? I'm making no more extreme claims of the injury than yourself, difference being I'm actually using the evidence of the aftermath to give a valid explanation to why the outcome was as such.

You sure you have a psychiatric degree? You're going to ignore affects of damage to the right hemisphere something well covered in that area of work? Mate basic knowledge in subjects doesn't require qualifications and degrees, it needs a basic literacy skill set and boredom.😚

If you want to actually see my opinion of the game look back to my earlier post, It's okay we understand the game hurt your fragile masculinity
Click to expand...

Yikes, why are you so upset? Chill out, you sound like a crazed fanboy

Actually, pretty sure you don't need a CT scan to know someone that got shot in the back of the head is a little bit ****ed, but sure, pretend your magic bullet theory is gonna fly.

Bullet Shrapnel stay in the brain, they need to be surgically removed from the brain or they are screwed, but I am sure you magically think they will survive because you wikied it :D

Yes, I spent years on that degree, so I am pretty sure. It's hilarious watching you pretend you know what you're talking about because you copy pasted from google, but sure

The guy going nuts because someone criticized his video game is questioning someone else's masculinity. o_O The LGBT representation is the best part about this game, but sure, anyone who doesn't like this game must be a bigot.

Weren't you the guy who laughed at anyone who took the 10/10 reviews with a grain of salt because the review industry is wrong all the time? Keep up the good fight white knighting this game, little man ;)
 
bourbons said:
Just re-watched the cutscene, its not actually a shot to the back of the head (I thought it was too up till this point). The whole back of Tommy's head is untouched, bullet just clipped him on the side of the face, check it out;

View attachment 913083

Considering that, his survival is certainly plausible.

Maria's priority has been shown over the course of both games to be completely focussed on the well being of the Jackson settlement, personally I doubt she'd even want to see Ellie again in the first place, let alone pressure her to take revenge for her. To be clear, its not exactly what you'd expect of Tommy either, but I think they dropped enough hints about his compromised state of mind for it to work. The dialogue about him no longer being together with Maria isn't there by accident.

Ellie's side of the story doesn't? (show her to be a psycho?) I actually don't think the game expects you to identify or 'side' with anyone, one of the more interesting and risky things about it. One of the main things I took away is there are usually no 'good' or 'bad' guys, just people trying to survive.

Anyhow, love the (rational) discussion this game generates :thumbsu:
Click to expand...

Well as you say, if we're gonna rationally explain why Maria wouldn't seek revenge, then we have to do the same for Tommy. Tommy was literally begging Ellie to leave him to die so Abby can't kill her, I don't see how suddenly he would do a 180 flip and put Ellie in harms way, when he spent the entire game chasing WLF on his own precisely because he didn't want Ellie to do it. That's why he told Maria to lock her up and and steal her horse

We can all say, "yeah but he isn't in the right mind", but I think that's a bit of a copout for silly writing tbh

Oh I don't like Ellie in this game at all, she acts like she's all sorry that she had to kill people in cut scenes, then spent half the game rampaging across America. That's the bit that I find a little hard to believe, she has literally slitted dozens of people's throats with a psychotic look on her face but then in a cut scene she's all like "won't someone please think of the children". It's the Lara Croft syndrome

In fact I find all the characters in this game really unlikeable in the 2nd game. There's a reason why people like Joel despite the fact that he is a raging arsehole, because he has his own rugged charms and well built sympathetic story line. Whereas I just find everyone including Ellie to just be straight out charmless psychopaths

I'm glad you can rationally discuss this, that's what makes these games worth the time. That other guy Iamseed or something just went crazy, yikes.

EDIT: also saw the Tommy scene a few times, still looks like it's a blast to the head to me, but whatever, doesn't really matter
 
Last edited:
Cooldude said:
Yikes, why are you so upset? Chill out, you sound like a crazed fanboy

Actually, pretty sure you don't need a CT scan to know someone that got shot in the back of the head is a little bit f’ed, but sure, pretend your magic bullet theory is gonna fly.

Bullet Shrapnel stay in the brain, they need to be surgically removed from the brain or they are screwed, but I am sure you magically think they will survive because you wikied it :D

Yes, I spent years on that degree, so I am pretty sure. It's hilarious watching you pretend you know what you're talking about because you copy pasted from google, but sure

The guy going nuts because someone criticized his video game is questioning someone else's masculinity. o_O The LGBT representation is the best part about this game, but sure, anyone who doesn't like this game must be a bigot.

Weren't you the guy who laughed at anyone who took the 10/10 reviews with a grain of salt because the review industry is wrong all the time? Keep up the good fight white knighting this game, little man ;)
Click to expand...
Actually no bullet shrapnel doesn't have to removed in fact even with modern surgery in perfect condition it's left in but sure lecturer me more on your fake degrees and your superior knowledge.

You know people can call out your bullshit and not actually have an agenda about defending the game right? That's what I'm attacking is your blatant lying. If you want a rational mature discussion don't start by calling someone a fanboi for simply questioning your rationale and when they provide you with a logical conclusion don't simply ignore it by claiming expertise in a field, as if a place of authority will dismiss it.

Right frontal lobe injuries is something which has affected me personally and something I've studied deeply for a number of years(if you want you can check posts on the Hawthorn board where I've discussed this) not just a 10 minute wikipedia read. So when you claim to be have pyschoolgy degree but refuse to consider the psychiatric changes that comes with injuries to the right hand side of the brain please forgive me for being skeptical of that degree.

Now if you wanted to argue that the set up is contrived then sure it's a valid claim but arguing it's a plothole is nonsensical when real world evidence shows it's plausibility, however that wasn't your argument.

Nope not me but nice try I guess.
 
Last edited:
Cooldude said:
Well as you say, if we're gonna rationally explain why Maria wouldn't seek revenge, then we have to do the same for Tommy. Tommy was literally begging Ellie to leave him to die so Abby can't kill her, I don't see how suddenly he would do a 180 flip and put Ellie in harms way, when he spent the entire game chasing WLF on his own precisely because he didn't want Ellie to do it. That's why he told Maria to lock her up and and steal her horse

We can all say, "yeah but he isn't in the right mind", but I think that's a bit of a copout for silly writing tbh

Oh I don't like Ellie in this game at all, she acts like she's all sorry that she had to kill people in cut scenes, then spent half the game rampaging across America. That's the bit that I find a little hard to believe, she has literally slitted dozens of people's throats with a psychotic look on her face but then in a cut scene she's all like "won't someone please think of the children". It's the Lara Croft syndrome

In fact I find all the characters in this game really unlikeable in the 2nd game. There's a reason why people like Joel despite the fact that he is a raging arsehole, because he has his own rugged charms and well built sympathetic story line. Whereas I just find everyone including Ellie to just be straight out charmless psychopaths

I'm glad you can rationally discuss this, that's what makes these games worth the time. That other guy Iamseed or something just went crazy, yikes.

EDIT: also saw the Tommy scene a few times, still looks like it's a blast to the head to me, but whatever, doesn't really matter
Click to expand...

Guess I just don't see it as a 180. Its not his preferred action sure, but like I said earlier leaving Abby alive was never an option for him, even when healthy at the start of the game. Its just that he thought he could take care of it himself without putting Ellie in harms way - guessing (and as part of the mental state he seems to be in) he now sees that as the only remaining option. But its all good, agree to disagree, again its interesting the discussion it generates.

Yeah I totally get what you're saying about the bodycount, but at the end of the day they still have to make a video game. Kinda need enemies and encounters throughout otherwise what is it, just a walking/exploration simulator? This angle has long been part of commentary on Uncharted too - good ol' loveable happy-go-lucky Nate Drake, the biggest mass murderer in human history lol. At least here they kinda call it out, make it explicit and a part of Ellie's thought process.

Re: the shot, yep its a blast to the head, just not the brain. I reckon it definitely matters, like you I first thought that Tommy copped it right to the back of the head, which yeah does make his return in the epilogue a bit cheap. But they literally animated it the way they did with the blood blossom on the side of his face rather than back of his head, it's all there on-screen and even in real time you can see it if you're watching closely. Its an attention to detail thing that ensures what comes after make more sense - that kinda stuff shouldn't just be brushed off imo, credit where its due.
 
bourbons said:
Guess I just don't see it as a 180. Its not his preferred action sure, but like I said earlier leaving Abby alive was never an option for him, even when healthy at the start of the game. Its just that he thought he could take care of it himself without putting Ellie in harms way - guessing (and as part of the mental state he seems to be in) he now sees that as the only remaining option. But its all good, agree to disagree, again its interesting the discussion it generates.

Yeah I totally get what you're saying about the bodycount, but at the end of the day they still have to make a video game. Kinda need enemies and encounters throughout otherwise what is it, just a walking/exploration simulator? This angle has long been part of commentary on Uncharted too - good ol' loveable happy-go-lucky Nate Drake, the biggest mass murderer in human history lol. At least here they kinda call it out, make it explicit and a part of Ellie's thought process.

Re: the shot, yep its a blast to the head, just not the brain. I reckon it definitely matters, like you I first thought that Tommy copped it right to the back of the head, which yeah does make his return in the epilogue a bit cheap. But they literally animated it the way they did with the blood blossom on the side of his face rather than back of his head, it's all there on-screen and even in real time you can see it if you're watching closely. Its an attention to detail thing that ensures what comes after make more sense - that kinda stuff shouldn't just be brushed off imo, credit where its due.
Click to expand...
surviving something that would kill 95% of the time is very last of us 1 & 2. During game play, I got a shotgun to the face and a simple arm bandage fixed me.
 
I'm at
the Seraphites Island with Lev, just seen poor Yara be killed, very sad, but who shot Isaac? Really loving the set pieces in this chapter, and really enjoy the relationship between Abby and Lev.

Hoping to finally knock this over on the weekend, I know the ending apparently has it's critics, I guess I'll have to find out for myself, but so far it's honestly been one of the best games I've ever played.
 
bourbons said:
leaving Abby alive was never an option for him, even when healthy at the start of the game .
Click to expand...
except when he decides to hit her with his gun instead of shooting her in the face on the maria

Speaking of that moment, how good would a DLC of Tommy destroying Seattle be. That entire marina scene was close to my favourite in the game (apart from lev getting clocked into the garage door)
 
Last edited:
Jamurp said:
I'm at
the Seraphites Island with Lev, just seen poor Yara be killed, very sad, but who shot Isaac? Really loving the set pieces in this chapter, and really enjoy the relationship between Abby and Lev.

Hoping to finally knock this over on the weekend, I know the ending apparently has it's critics, I guess I'll have to find out for myself, but so far it's honestly been one of the best games I've ever played.
Click to expand...
Yara shot him, the old not quite dead final act before she then got really, really dead. The island section is epic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dwwaino
Multiplat Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - coming 2024
Replies
6
Views
183
Nunez
Nunez
dwwaino
Multiplat The Alters - Coming 2024
Replies
0
Views
196
dwwaino
dwwaino
Lance Uppercut
PS5 The Last of Us Part 1 - rebuilt from the ground up for PS5 and PC - 2 September
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
5K
bourbons
bourbons
Dannnnnnnnnn
Multiplat The Sinking City 2 - Coming 2025
Replies
1
Views
366
berisha
berisha
dwwaino
TV/Film The Last of Us - HBO TV Show
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
161
Views
9K
RPCB
RPCB
vast
Multiplat TMNT: The Last Ronin
Replies
1
Views
334
jabba5114
jabba5114
Father Jack
Multiplat Cities: Skylines II
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
177
Views
9K
cats2rise
cats2rise

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top