Autopsy Round 9: Hawks beat up on the Blues

[Mercy Seat]

TOB creates contests all across the ground, always brings the ball to ground, and despite being a shocking mark, is a really great athlete. Mitch Lewis is a completely different player and a straight swap for the two doesn’t make much sense. I desperately want to see Lewis back but we need a better swap. For the both of them.

 

[HeHateMe]

I like TOB, but I guess what's frustrating is that he is a first grab away from being a very good KPP.

He has been involved in alot of plays like the Impey one where he creates the contest and butters up with the 2nd effort that leads to a goal. A number of highlights this year, something Lewis and Patton have failed to do. Also his defensive forward game is superior to both as well.

But the points some make if he doesn't start to take those marks he should then he will never be the solution that leads a forward line to a GF.

Currently he has performed much better then Lewis and Patton that is obvious. But one or those 2 could at some point take TOB spot from underneath him and with the right conditioning and form and if they are clunking the marks he might find it hard to get it back.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Smithy just on 3AW just saying that it was Stratts efforts early in the second q that inspired the squad and turned the game around.

Say what you want about his demeanour, but if his efforts are doing that, and the players are saying that about him, he is doing his job as captain.

Yeah he really threw his body around

 

[Judd2Sewell]

7 touches yesterday for 5 score involvements which was the equal second most by any Hawk.

Every week you bang on about dropping him for Lewis who hasn't played half as well as O'Brien this year and isn't even playing the same role in the team when he is there.

His effort is very good, and 5 score involvements is also very good, can't deny that any of that.

IMO if we move the ball quickly like we did yesterday then we will see a much better Lewis, like we did last season. Lewis showed last year that he was already a better player, in a more important position, than TOB can be for us. Ideally when we have Lewis and Patton both fit and firing there will be no place for TOB in the forward line - or maybe he could play higher up the ground. He'll take those marks up in a wing.

 

[Gralin]

His effort is very good, and 5 score involvements is also very good, can't deny that any of that.

IMO if we move the ball quickly like we did yesterday then we will see a much better Lewis, like we did last season. Lewis showed last year that he was already a better player, in a more important position, than TOB can be for us. Ideally when we have Lewis and Patton both fit and firing there will be no place for TOB in the forward line - or maybe he could play higher up the ground. He'll take those marks up in a wing.

Yeah I don't see it.
Lewis or Patton would have to replace Cegs or BB
Patton and Lewis are both more suited to the same role as well.

 

[PenAndPaper]

His effort is very good, and 5 score involvements is also very good, can't deny that any of that.

IMO if we move the ball quickly like we did yesterday then we will see a much better Lewis, like we did last season. Lewis showed last year that he was already a better player, in a more important position, than TOB can be for us. Ideally when we have Lewis and Patton both fit and firing there will be no place for TOB in the forward line - or maybe he could play higher up the ground. He'll take those marks up in a wing.

Did you see the last 5 games of 2019 from O'Brien? His performance in those games when he played deeper forward he was a lot better than Lewis. Not saying Lewis is bad but there is definitely room for all of them in our team imo as O'Brien is still able to put pressure on so we aren't really losing out just because we are a little taller then.

 

[Sicily]

Thought Silk was important particularly in the second quarter when the game was still there to be won - a gentle reminder that he’s not quite ready to shuffle off into retirement.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Did you see the last 5 games of 2019 from O'Brien? His performance in those games when he played deeper forward he was a lot better than Lewis. Not saying Lewis is bad but there is definitely room for all of them in our team imo as O'Brien is still able to put pressure on so we aren't really losing out just because we are a little taller then.

Well you're just plain wrong there regarding last year.

TOB last 5 games of last year:
Kicks - 7
Handballs - 3.6
Marks - 4.4
Goals - 2.4
Behinds - 1.2
Tackles - 1.4

Lewis once he returned from injury (last 6 games). Keep in mind he has played all of 8 games up until this point:
Kicks - 10.2
Handballs - 5.16
Marks - 5.8
Goals - 2.16
Behinds - 1.3
Tackles - 1.5

 

[Slysh]

TOB shouldn’t be a talking point, nothing has changed.

Okay player with big holes in his game but clearly the best we have until Patton and/or Lewis get fit and show they can impact the game over the course of 4 quarters.

TOB is clearly best 22 at the moment but going in to the future he can’t be the answer unless he improves. People need to just accept that he is the best we have at the moment.

 

[PhatHQ]

Great comeback! Where has that been!
Hats off to Shiels, Fantastic game when it mattered.
Will Day was the spark and the boys took hold.
Really like TO’s second efforts, Its the first ones that will break a game apart.
Impey has a bit of love over at the club by the look of it. Great to see his return can inspire the group.
Not getting ahead of anything here with a win over Carlton. Seriously... we were pathetic in the first quarter.

West Coast will be the barometer for moving forward.
If we bank a couple of cheap wins and finish 10th or something just to save face on the playing group this season, I’ll be very disappointed.

That being said, it was great to get to cheer some excellent efforts last night.
TO, Worps, Shiels moments all come to mind.

 

[tommyk72]

I’m not on the Scully bashing train, but this is what I don’t get at the moment. His role is as a running beast, but he’s still sitting below JOM who is playing inside and outside.

Surely not a fitness thing, he’s got a nice big oval now, but he’s still tracking lower KMs.

 

[H00t]

Good to get a win! Didn’t watch much of the game but what I did see it looked like a totally different Hawthorn.

It looked like we took the game on at all costs. Frosts run through the middle was wonderful.

When kicking the ball long inside fifty we kept it low and to our forwards advantage rather than just kicking it as high as possible.

Something I haven’t seen much this year was us acting as a team and doing the little things for each other.

Gunston‘s first goal was due to worpel clearing his defender out of the way so Gunston had a straight shot at goal. And Gunston’s third with Breust blocking for him. It’s the little things that go a long way.

Hopefully this win is a turning point for us.

 

[HairyO]

How is scrimshaw going?

Looked ok defensively in one match I saw parts of earlier in the year. Haven’t really seen since.

atats show averaging 12 disposals at 63%, 40% of possessions are contested which is higher than I would have thought for his skill set.

5 int possessions per game is good, 3.2 turnovers not ideal. 1 contested Mark in his 5 games.

140ish metres gained per match is below what I’d have thought.
Last year he seemed more involved. Just a young guy working his way into things? Be keen on your thoughts.

Pretty much. Very up and down. His best has been like a young Birchall. But he is a better pack mark.

For a 4th rounder he was a steal.

 

[Brishawk]

I’m not on the sculpt bashing train, but this is what I don’t get at the moment. His role is as a running beast, but he’s still sitting below JOM who is playing inside and outside.

Surely not a fitness thing, he’s got a nice big oval now, but he’s still tracking lower KMs.

Scully spent less time on ground than omeara (82% v 89%) but covered more of that ground at high speed than anyone on the field.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

This will be controversial, but I believe the umpires we're quite instrumental in that win.
Let me explain.
Go and watch the game and see how quick they are to call play on after a mark in general field play or after a free kick.
This got the ball moving and us running and stopped the very slow down the line play, which in turn freed up the forward line where we have had huge problems because of the extremely slow play getting down there.

Our structures looked much better - we were too top heavy previously and with 1 less tall gave us more flexibility and speed around the ground.
Additionally not having 3 wingmen and Hendo being out gave us a better inside outside run balance.

I still believe there is room for Lewis or Patton at full forward - probably for one of the rucks Ceglar or McEvoy but their form hasn't warranted selection but being injured isn't helping them either.

Impey/Bruest very welcome additions back and provided smarts and good run mixed with working well freeing up forward options.

Scully needs to be dropped and replaced with Finn Maguiness - consider this so far this season.
Tom Scully: For an outside player he should have one of the highest disposal efficiencies. His last 5 games read.
Equal worst disposal efficiency in this game.
Worst disposal efficiency against Sydney.
Worst disposal efficiency against Melbourne.
7th worst disposal efficiency against Collingwood
7th worst disposal efficiency against GWS.
Season averages:
Disposals per game 12.4 = Below Avg
Kicks 7.3 = Below Avg
Handballs 5.1 = Below Avg
Marks 2.3 = Below Avg
Tackles 1.1 = Below Avg
Goals 0.1 = Below Avg

I believe this will be Burgoyne's last year - yes was great in the 2nd quarter but only 62% game time and managing him during the year in not playing all games are indications he is total luxury and I'm not sure we're good enough to have luxuries.

O'Brien provides a good contest. He will start to stick a mark or 2 as soon as his confidence improves and he believes he can take them again. His mark missing is totally in his head. A very important cog in our forward line and any nuffies saying he needs to be dropped are nuffies.

Not a gambling man but I would put very good money on Will Day making 200 games.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I’m not on the sculpt bashing train, but this is what I don’t get at the moment. His role is as a running beast, but he’s still sitting below JOM who is playing inside and outside.

Surely not a fitness thing, he’s got a nice big oval now, but he’s still tracking lower KMs.

It looked like he actually spent a lot more time at half forward this game, dunno about the stats but by looking it seemed that way.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Scully needs to be dropped and replaced with Finn Maguiness - consider this so far this season.
Tom Scully: For an outside player he should have one of the highest disposal efficiencies. His last 5 games read.
Equal worst disposal efficiency in this game.
Worst disposal efficiency against Sydney.
Worst disposal efficiency against Melbourne.
7th worst disposal efficiency against Collingwood
7th worst disposal efficiency against GWS.
Season averages:
Disposals per game 12.4 = Below Avg
Kicks 7.3 = Below Avg
Handballs 5.1 = Below Avg
Marks 2.3 = Below Avg
Tackles 1.1 = Below Avg
Goals 0.1 = Below Avg

Our whole team has been below average in most of the games the last month or so.

I thought he played ok last tonight, not amazing, but serviceable. As another poster said, he leads in sprint running numbers, and Finn plays a different role to that.

I think it’s easy to forget that he’s coming back from an injury that many believed he’d never recover from. The club are obviously hoping that he will rediscover his pre-injury form, but will ultimately have to make a call on him at some point

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

Pretty much. Very up and down. His best has been like a young Birchall. But he is a better pack mark.

For a 4th rounder he was a steal.

Yeah, definitely too talented not to play in the league.
Just couldn't commit to living and playing outside of Melbourne.
Will be interested to see how he progresses.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

I must say I did like the story he told about Freddy and him watching the Hawks/Demons game last week and Freddy went and swapped his Hawk gear for Demons gear when Hawks stared losing.
At least he's trying to instill the brown and gold into his son.

A lot of people on this forum drop off players and coaches like a 3 year old.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

Was a great win yesterday. I never doubted Worpels position like others so I was thrilled with his game.

I do have a takeaway that I hope doesn't sound too negative however.

Next season we are looking at smaller list sizes most likely. A lot of guys who haven't cemented a spot but who have been around for a while will be understandably nervous. This season could end up anywhere for us, but most likely on form we will fall short of making finals with the oldest list in the competition.

I'm happy with the victory, but I still desperately want changes made to the side over the next few weeks.

Harry Jones, Dylan Moore, Jackson Ross, Daemon Graeves, Matt Walker (just to name a few) will probably more nervous than most heading into next year with inevitable list shrinking to take place. If we are going to be a middle of the road side, it is still absolutely imperative that these blokes are given a chance at senior level between now and round 17.

The worst case scenario, in my opinion, is that we finish between 9th and 16th, delist some or all of the aforementioned young players, then head into next season STILL with the oldest list.

If, for example, we drop Scully, Stratton, Frawley, Burgoyne (guys who could realistically be gone this time next year) and play Moore, Jones, CJ, Ross, Walker etc BUT it doesn't work out, then at least we tried. It is so important to keep an eye on the future during this strange period.

I'd much rather head into 2021 with some young players we gave a chance to than the old brigade at the expense of untried youth.

I don't worry about that because I don't think any of Harry Jones, Dylan Moore, Jackson Ross, Daemon Graeves, Matt Walker will make it as AFL regulars.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I don't worry about that because I don't think any of Harry Jones, Dylan Moore, Jackson Ross, Daemon Graeves, Matt Walker will make it as AFL regulars.

I somewhat agree with Jones, Moore & Ross but I think Walker & particularly Greaves will make it.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I don't worry about that because I don't think any of Harry Jones, Dylan Moore, Jackson Ross, Daemon Graeves, Matt Walker will make it as AFL regulars.

You wouldn't like a definite answer to that?
I'm certain Scully, Stratton and Frawley won't get better and won't be part of our next premiership team. I'd rather give those younger boys a chance to prove they suck rather than just assume they do.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

Watched the replay this morning and want to comment on three whipping boys and the general game plan.

Scully - Had a reasonable good game and when had space gave some decent delivery. Had 4 score involvements. DE need to improve but he only had one clanger and compare that to Scrimshaw who had 6 but no talk of him on the board (before anyone loses it Scrimshaw stays in for me but using for context).

O'Brien - Yes he doesn't take the marks he should (and we focus so much on that one missed mark at the end of the second) but he makes contest after contest. Ask yourself this, would you rather a player who made the contest and made the opposition work for a possession or the opposite? And Impey's goal which got everyone excited was because O'Brien made the contest, brought the goal to ground (he was spoiled) and then made the second effort to get the ball to handball to Impey.

Stratton - From a pure playing perspective he is doing role and keeps some level of composure in the backline. When he was caught out down back it was generally because another player had left their man and he was caught out 1 on 2. But as a Captain, I'm still to be convinced. He needs to understand that he does not only lead the team but that he is the Captain of the Hawthorn Football club and represents all of us.

So I think that Clarko has decided the McEvoy down back experiment does not work. He plays better either up forward, or in the ruck and sweeping down back. That makes the backline look much better and settled and the rebound was so much better. Being forced to not have Henderson has opened up a spot for a youngster and that is Morrison. And as has been mentioned the midfield looked way more cohesive.

I can't like this post enough.
Agree totally

 

[Teamwork Talks]

I somewhat agree with Jones, Moore & Ross but I think Walker & particularly Greaves will make it.

Fair enough. I hope you are right.
Time will tell which of us is right.

 

[4THAWN]

Open your f*cking eyes Tim