Preview Round 11 Carlton vs West Coast @ Optus Stadium Sunday 9th August 3.35pm AEST

[Arr0w]

I'm suggesting his ability to create worthwhile forward entries is lacking, and would prefer Fisher. I recognise it's not like for like, but right now we don't seem to have the ability to maintain possession and consistently move the ball forward.

The opposition ramps up their pressure, and despite his endurance numbers Newnes doesn't really react quickly in open play, particularly in the defensive half (which appears to be a big part of his role). There were a few instances where he might as well have been a witches hat on Friday night, and he couldn't catch a cold after the first quarter.

Respect that not everyone is going to capitalise as readily when they get the outside ball at forward line stoppage, but we're talking maybe 1 less goal there, versus at least a couple more created by putting high-level disposers into the side.

I didn't want to get into it with you about Player Rankings last time we discussed Newnes, but I feel Champion Data has been ******* up their metrics for a long, long time, particularly with regard to movement to defensive position and an individual's speed (and success) of ball movement. Player performance is not properly captured by their modelling right now, so I don't have much regard for it as a true indicator of such things.

Fisher should be in the side, but based on your preference of speed and DE, Newnes isn't the one you should make way

 

[james Dean]

Newnes is like Matthew Wright was, he doesn’t offer much but as long as he is hitting the scoreboard he gets a game the next week.

I don’t think he’s much chop though, would like to see someone like Philp, Dow, Stocker or O’Brien eventually take his spot

 

[SurreyBlue]

There is absolutely no ambiguity on this. Nicknat will destroy Pitto at centre bounces. Pitto’s biggest weakness is his leap.

There is a solution. Not a very difficult one. Play TDk. He has a huge leap. Have him take as many centre bounces as possible. He has an outside chance of limiting Nicknat. Let Pitto deal with Nicknat at boundary throw ins and around the ground.

I don’t find any of this to be very difficult. Moore is an abject failure as a trial and needs to is be replaced.

This is ‘bleeding obvious’ time. I dearly hope Teague doesn’t ignore it. Play TDK. Have him attend centre bounces. Like...the first one. There’s just no doubt on this. If he doesn’t Nicknat will break the competition record for hitouts to advantage.

My initial thoughts pretty much similar, but Pitto and TDK will need to work diligently together with the switches between centre bounces and around the ground / forward work. I’m curious to see how we plan and execute.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Newnes is like Matthew Wright was, he doesn’t offer much but as long as he is hitting the scoreboard he gets a game the next week.

I don’t think he’s much chop though, would like to see someone like Philp, Dow, Stocker or O’Brien eventually take his spot

Crazy policy!

I prefer the old Malthouse model of trading away all our goal kickers.

 

[Jimmae]

Fisher should be in the side, but based on your preference of speed and DE, Newnes isn't the one you should make way

I despise DE as a metric. You can be effective while moving the ball at a treacle pace, and without really directing your long kicks anywhere in particular.

Newnes is not treacle slow moving the ball around, and he is an OK user of the ball when you're setting the standard at what Plowman achieves, but you want your outside users to hit passes as flat as possible so they get there quickly and take advantage of the opposition being out of position more readily.

That's where he fails compared to most of our wing/HF/HB options.

 

[Davey33]

Moore should never play again.
Cripps needs to go back to the gym and get back to his playing weight.

LOB onto a wing, Walsh into the guts.

How did he get a 2nd match.
Everyone saw it already last week.
What was the justification?
Is Teague deliberately trying to lose?

 

[jj1978]

Weagles have shown it's possible to change form dramatically... from being 0-4 to now 5 straight and flag favourites.

I have an inner hope that somehow as a team we break these mental hoodoos and pulling out a 4-5 game winning stream would really be the start of the process. Don't know if we can do that this season, but I hope we play smart with our list and rotate at least a fresh kid in every week from now on.

Next year it's imperative we at least come out round 1 and win for once, that would begin to set the tone.

I know as of now due to Vic stage-4 lockdown coming into effect the extra mental strain on these players will increase as their Vic homes and loved ones are being affected, so I'll give them some leniency from a mental standpoint (I'm lucky still have a good job that I can WFH, but the strain of home-schooling, spouse and 16 years or marriage and knowing only my own home since March has already got me going - I even have converted a soccer ball to Wilson - but mine is named 'Das' or 'Adi').

Friday's loss was shattering and I'll continue to watch and try to have 0 expectations for the remainder of the year, I think that's best.

 

[Arr0w]

I despise DE as a metric. You can be effective while moving the ball at a treacle pace, and without really directing your long kicks anywhere in particular.

Newnes is not treacle slow moving the ball around, and he is an OK user of the ball when you're setting the standard at what Plowman achieves, but you want your outside users to hit passes as flat as possible so they get there quickly and take advantage of the opposition being out of position more readily.

That's where he fails compared to most of our wing/HF/HB options.

Compared to who, which players?

 

[gbatman]

We desperately need competitors who can kick. The Eagles will smash us if we can't compete in the contests and run with them and if our kicking into our forward line doesn't improve then they are just going to intercept like mad.

The coach needs to make a statement and command some respect from the players. Drop player. Drop blokes who don't meet a standard. Particularly when it comes to physicality, pressure, courage and competitiveness.

B: Simpson Jones Plowman
HB: SPS Weitering Docherty
C: O'Brien Setterfield Martin
HF: Honey McKay Gibbons
F: Betts Casboult McGovern
OB: Pittonett Walsh Cripps
IC: Curnow Williamson Silvagni Kennedy


OUT
Murphy - One of our better players for possessions but you can't have a bloke who pulls out of contests like that. End of discussion, standards have to be set. IMO Murphy is mentally done. Avoids contact and can't tackle.

Cuningham - He provides no pressure at all. He kicks the odd goal but his pressure is terrible. His efforts have been really poor this season. He struggles to find the footy and does not make up for it with pressure acts and effort.

Moore - He just doesn't seem up to it. Has a bit of talent in some areas but he had two games and made no impact.

Newnes - He kicks a few goals which is great but his general play isn't and he's there to play wing. I love how he commits his body but he just lacks talent.


IN
Honey - A quick player who has been involved in the goals in the scratch matches regularly. Worth giving a shot. If he kicks a goal and chases the opposition he is ahead of Cuningham.

O'Brien - If he can get it 15-20 times and doesn't shirk physical contact then he will be ahead of Murphy, IMO he deserves a go. If we don't play him then I don't think he's going to hand around whereas Murphy is ready to retire. Play O'Brien.

McGovern - For all the criticism he cops he still kicks goals and does enough in the side to earn his spot.

Silvagni - If he's fit then we should be playing him. He's a competitor, smart player who tackles. It's what we need. He might need some match fitness though, not sure he will get up for this if not then Fisher.


Close
Philp - I think he's a guy who if you played him and stuck with him he would get better and better. Think he has the talent to become a good player and he would provide pace and a desire to apply pressure. Also a good skilled player. Would like to see him back in the side.

TDK - Pittonett got smashed in the ruck against two other genuine rucks so there's that. He's talented and if McGovern doesn't come up he should be picked.

Fisher - Very close to getting a game you would think.


Thin Ice

Kennedy - Had two decent games prior and I would like another big body but gee I would be close to playing Fisher instead. Give him another go against a good side and see how he does.


Tactics

Better kicking inside 50, how hard is that, just hit targets.
More pressure, more hard chasing.
Less Cripps centric. Use the other midfielders a lot more. Let them all go to Cripps and back the other players. If they aren't good enough then so be it.

 

[AB_Blue]

You’d think any of Newnes, Cunners, Kennedy and Moore would be on this ice. Although it should be Betts and Murphy as well

Setters has a poor game but has more runs on the board than MK

I don’t think we can play Cripps, Kennedy and setters in the same midfield

One has to push forward or be resting on the pine

Fish has the speed and smarts we need

Cunners should be pushed up the field as he is great in linking the play

Can we find someone to play HBF and give SPS a midfield role ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jimmae]

Compared to who, which players?

Murphy, Walsh, Simpson, Fisher, SPS, Martin, Gibbons, Ramsay, and Philp. Perhaps Cuningham, Honey and Williamson in time, but they need positional coaching. I'd like to include O'Brien, but his short passing needs a lot of work.

What Newnes has over that initial list of players is that he is physically bigger, but I don't see the point of that if it's at the expense of the positional play rather than adding to it.

If he could hold his own on the inside of a stoppage, I'd have him in there in a heartbeat because I think his game is well suited to putting in pressure around the stoppage and spreading to attack/defend.

 

[Arr0w]

Murphy, Walsh, Simpson, Fisher, SPS, Martin, Gibbons, Ramsay, and Philp. Perhaps Cuningham, Honey and Williamson in time, but they need positional coaching. I'd like to include O'Brien, but his short passing needs a lot of work.

What Newnes has over that initial list of players is that he is physically bigger, but I don't see the point of that if it's detracting from the positional play rather than adding to it.

If he could hold his own on the inside of a stoppage, I'd have him in there in a heartbeat because I think his game is well suited to putting in pressure around the stoppage and spreading to attack/defend.

The first 7 apart from Fisher are already in the side, but he is on par if not better speed (apart from Walsh)and disposal wise to all those players

Ramsay and Philp? Not even close, but Ramsay will surprise many

Newnes is currently outperforming Betts and Cuners, so perhaps one of them should be a replacement for Fisher, rather than Newnes

Keep in mind Newnes is effectively being used as a 7th defender, spending more than 60% of his time defensive side of centre

Perhaps positional coaching would also increase his hurt factor, given his conversion is elite this year, 8 goals 1

Newnes won't be dropped on those comparisons

Perhaps people just want our youth to be played, but again, other senior players should make way before Newnes is a consideration

 

[La Dispute]

Newnes is like Matthew Wright was, he doesn’t offer much but as long as he is hitting the scoreboard he gets a game the next week.

I don’t think he’s much chop though, would like to see someone like Philp, Dow, Stocker or O’Brien eventually take his spot

Pretty different roles overall though. Wright was a discipled defensive forward who was good for a few goals a game, Newnes is an all-purpose player who players predominantly on the wing but gets minutes on the half-back flank and half-forward flank depending on our rotations and the state of the game.

The main problem I’m having with Newnes is that it’s hard to gauge how well he’s playing at times. Sure he will hit the scoreboard and provide some decent offensive running and link up play when we are going well, but you can also pencil in a couple of crucial errors under pressure - regardless whether we are winning or not.

He is doing enough to avoid being dropped, but if his performance tapers off slightly he pretty much immediately puts himself in the red zone. His effort week-to-week will probably be enough to keep him in the side, but it won’t be long until he is overtaken and/or we want to try something different with our squad.

 

[ETET]

Fischer, Newnes, TDK, Moore, Honey, Philp, Willo, LOB, Cunners..etc..They are all just bit players.

We only win when enough of our core senior players, play with composure, make good decisions and execute.

It’s on them every week, whether we like it or not. It’s no different for every other footy team in the comp.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

No change.
I want Teague to play all his deckchairs one more time against WC so he can see once and for all the facts of the matter.
The following week against Fremantle, having finally accepted reality, Teague should return to the fundamentals of the clubs stated intention of building a team to win premierships as against just scraping into the top eight * style.

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I agree with you But may never recover from the mental scarring-- every game pittonet been whacked we have lost --and he can't jump so nic nat there midfield will get ugly fast .. if it ball goes forward it will come back faster..

 

[Jimmyonesix]

My initial thoughts pretty much similar, but Pitto and TDK will need to work diligently together with the switches between centre bounces and around the ground / forward work. I’m curious to see how we plan and execute.

If mcgovern plays ruck cas around ground

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Keep in mind Newnes is effectively being used as a 7th defender, spending more than 60% of his time defensive side of centre

He 60-40 other way yesterday -- Walsh was 60-40 def fwd yesterday -- don't know weeks before

 

[Arr0w]

Play TDK, use him at half the centre bounces, let Pitto take the round the ground stuff

 

[Arr0w]

He 60-40 other way yesterday -- Walsh was 60-40 def fwd yesterday -- don't know weeks before

Hard to peg it exactly, as we only have stats based on possessions

 

[JustaBattler]

I wonder how pizzed orf the onball brigade get when they see their hard won contested ball get butchered pretty much every time? I wonder what if anything Teague will do about something that happens week in week out? At what point do they start to save their energy for the next center bounce or ball up or chase caused by repeated fails ?

One little symptom is seeing Cripps trying to extract , fend off, run around circles fend off again and then try and find something forward all by himself...not once in the game btw - does that signal anything to anyone - Teaguey wakey uppy!

Teaguy has to start thinking about more than just his forward structures - that is the least of his problems.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Out: Moore, Kennedy and Cuningham
In: Mcgovern, Honey and Fisher

new blood, our WA players are back together (as are fish and Cripps combos). McGovern loves the open space and we need a leading target. We then play Cripps, Murphy Ed and Walsh on ball ALL DAY.

 

[murphster]

My initial thoughts pretty much similar, but Pitto and TDK will need to work diligently together with the switches between centre bounces and around the ground / forward work. I’m curious to see how we plan and execute.

This is exactly why we needed to bring in TDK this week to give him some game time and some ruck opportunities before the game against the high leaping Nic Nat who if left to jump against Pitto will give them silver service all day long, needed to get him in and try and get some continuity between him and Pitt as we will need Pitt to smash into him and then TDK to match or jump over him, just a big opportunity lost not playing him against Hawks.

 

[TerryWallet]

I wonder how pizzed orf the onball brigade get when they see their hard won contested ball get butchered pretty much every time? I wonder what if anything Teague will do about something that happens week in week out? At what point do they start to save their energy for the next center bounce or ball up or chase caused by repeated fails ?

One little symptom is seeing Cripps trying to extract , fend off, run around circles fend off again and then try and find something forward all by himself...not once in the game btw - does that signal anything to anyone - Teaguey wakey uppy!

Teaguy has to start thinking about more than just his forward structures - that is the least of his problems.

John Barker is the midfield/stoppages coach. I fully expect our mids to be getting less "good help" than 17 other sets of mids in the comp. We have hamstrung ourselves for years now by continually employing and empowering a proven failure at 3 different clubs over about 12 years.

Even the once thought of as indestructable Patty Cripps mightn't be indestructable enough to cope.

 

[murphster]

Play TDK, use him at half the centre bounces, let Pitto take the round the ground stuff

Like I said pre game it should have happened this week in preparation, just a wasted opportunity to get a trial run especially with Hawks playing 2 rucks.

 

[murphster]

Hard to peg it exactly, as we only have stats based on possessions

Newnes definitely played more wing forward this week and I think it was for the reasons that have been highlighted in past weeks, not sure it helped his game or ours for that matter as I think that role fell to Murphy which was a mistake. His heat map probably shows it best and he has actually been moving that way for a couple of weeks now, 3 weeks ago he was 79% back 21% offence, this week 40% back 60% offence, with Murph opposite.