Autopsy Rd 9 - If only games went for 1 quarter aka Still the Hawks bunnies

[agro]

McKay - We can't kick the ball to him.

We can but he keeps leading to the boundary near the 50 metre arc, a la Jarred Waite.

 

[murphster]

Knew he had to try to lift the side but, doesn’t yet have the runs on the board to know how to do it. He will get there.
He is having one of those years that all the greats have, a bit down on his best but will provide the fodder for future motivation and growth. Changed his body for more speed yet he is hand passing at an all time high clip, Diesel style. Be who you are, Skippa!

To be fair as well him and Ed were the only ones winning clearances and contested ball, Setters started like he’s been playing but as soon as the Hawks got on top he absolutely went missing, Kennedy fought on but wasn’t as effective so once again Cripps felt he had to do it all and battled hard all day and actually started to get back into some form but is just off hitting top form.

 

[murphster]

Your contradictions are bewildering, not mention the cherry picking, perhaps we can talk about the Bombers and Dogs game too

It's not as if many games this season haven't followed a similar course

It seems "supporters" come out of hiding when there is an unexpected loss and or doesn't play out as per the same expectations

Hmmm not sure how much meat on that bone.

 

[murphster]

Why do you only show up after a loss?
I've literally never seen you here after a win.

Misery loves company.

 

[Own The Future]

Unfortunately a lot of the players I would bring in are on the injury list. We need more energy in the middle. We need a wingman. We need some speed and pressure in the forward half.

Dow is at the age he should be matured and impacting at AFL level but he's injured.
Silvagni is a huge upgrade on Moore. He's a competitor, tackler and smart footballer who can go on the ball and provide all of that but he's injured.
McGovern has talent but he's injured.
O'Brien hasn't set the practice matches on fire but I feel he has to come in, I think we have to try him, see where his game is at.
Philp and Honey - they are a bit raw but they could be the right types to sit at half forward.
DeKoning should have played ahead of Moore but he probably would not have made a huge impact as our big issue is with our midfield.

We need to make changes because the coach needs to command respect and set standards. But gee it's hard to confidently bring in players.

I think you need to look back and see who isn't working where, who didn't uphold the standards, I'll list a team I'd like to see but I can tell you I won't be overly happy with it because from the reviews the players just aren't there, no one seems to be knocking down the door.

Great points.
Yeah it’s a shame there’s no one making it impossible to overlook them.
In my opinion, these are the changes to make:
Ins: Fisher, TDK, Honey
Outs: Murphy, Moore, Betts

Would love to include Gov, Dow and JSOS - but if they’re unavailable due to injury these are the changes I’d make.
Murphy was poor, Betts needs a rest and Moore (while not being as woeful as many on here would say) doesn’t seem to be AFL standard.
I do have concerns that WCE are going to destroy us in any one on one contests, but Fish and Honey will add pace and TDK will hopefully be better than Moore against Nic Nat - who was outstanding last night.
There are no 100% definite moves. Cannot wait to see if Teague and the match committee are willing to make some statements or will maintain the status quo.

 

[BlueBayou]

I thought watching the game was frustrating. Geez reading alot of dribble on here.
Any chance we can have a proper disection of the game instead of we r no good this blokes a dud blah blah blah. Surely we r better than that.
1st qtr 7 turnovers which is elite.
2nd qtr 13 of which the majority were unforced..not a direct result of Hawthorn pressure.
2nh half 41...world record pace.
Heres a fact not an opinion. We have less turnovers when we score heavily..logical. Again as in first qtr.
Ive been on here so often talking about our mfield.
This is still our biggest issue. When the pace is on in the game there is less squeezing of space and when we go quick we often get through and score.
Its not coincidence we r playing on quick ..its what Teague wants. All our issue happen when the game slows and the opp squeeze space. We just carnt get through and we turnover the ball horribly consistently trying to penetrate. Teague doesnt want our backs kicking from a stationay position..holding the ball thinking thinking thinking. He knows whats gunna happen we all do. If the reason he has samo playing there..If u recall at half time v port he gave an interview where he said he told them that if they carnt go quick he wants to go long very long down the line. But his preference is to go quick.
This is why i say our mfield is the issue. We just dont have enough depth of exp or quality yet to keep the pace on long enough in games. This has gotten better but still needs to go up a couple more notches. Its a smart game plan esp with the talls we have..give em more chances to go 1 on 1 but also limits the thinking guys have to do eith the footy..the more u think more chance u have of turning it over.
Our whole season have reflected this...we have scored in chunks very quicly and conceded in chunks very quickly against all levels of teams. So Teagues challenge for the forseeable future is to get OUR style for long enough to win games until this depth and exp grows. Fisher Dow Philp Kemp LOB stocker are still mids we have who could help this.
So maybe in the short term we could
Rotate more guys through the mfield for longer like martin cunners gibbo eddy
Playing de koning who is a genuine ruck and can rest pitt a bit more instead of more
Maybe doc or willo for a spell
Maybe rotating guys from game to game to keep them fresher
Maybe giving cripps the dusty role fulltime
This all could happen and maybe u guys have a few others..but i think teaguey is reluctant to do this too much cause hes trying to build continuity with game plan and blokes playing certain roles
So unfortunatley we may see these fluctuations in games continue fir a while yet unless he can come up with something in the gameplan which allows us to at the very least get inside 50s because as i said at the start when ball is in hand of alot of our blokes and they had to think their way through the kick we all know whats coming.
Just all think Richmond. As bout as average a team to win a flag based on pure talent as there has been in the last 40 yrs. 4 yrs ago they had blokes who couldnt hit the side of the barn from 5 m. Going nowhere with a gamellan which required precise kicking. Gone to the simllest gamepkan u can have. Havent looked back
And havent looked back cause they can llay it for longer than their opp can play theirs. Thats teagues challenge in the short term..he need to get a little creative

Fantastic post, some real insight and analysis here imo.

 

[DangerousD]

I think our braveness will be judged at seasons end.

Im not sure I think that’s brave at all.
Play player A, B or C all season, not drop them and cut them at years end? What a waste of development.

Is this what you mean? Are we brave enough to cut or move some on?

 

[DangerousD]

OUT
Simmo
Murph
Moore
Newnes (6 touches is unacceptable)

Not denying that I agree with most of your post, but I wanted to point out something that frustrates me. You have bracketed Newnes name for a clip, 6 touches is garbage and want him dropped, it’s not an unreasonable idea, what’s frustrating is, Cuningham who had 4 possessions, yes 4, isn’t on your list and you want to play him in the midfield. Why is his 4 possessions not worthy of banishment?

For context, Cunners had 3 possessions in the 1st quarter and 1 in the 2nd, he didn’t touch the ball in a whole half of football

 

[DangerousD]

A lot of names being thrown up as not being good enough, a lot of Murph bashing, he sure does have some deficiencies but how many people can remove their bias when discussing who to drop? A lot laying the boot in to Newnes, 6 touches, yuk, not many kicking Cunners out, not a single possession after half time, not many people demanding more from Willo, who’s been quiet, SPS, 8 possessions, Eddie Betts has struggled most games, but we love him, so we say nice things.

Murph struggles to tackle and spoil, but weigh it up, whos worse Murph getting 15-25 touches a game or Cunners, Newnes, Willo, Betts, Plowman, SPS, Jones?

 

[Accidental genius]

Not denying that I agree with most of your post, but I wanted to point out something that frustrates me. You have bracketed Newnes name for a clip, 6 touches is garbage and want him dropped, it’s not an unreasonable idea, what’s frustrating is, Cuningham who had 4 possessions, yes 4, isn’t on your list and you want to play him in the midfield. Why is his 4 possessions not worthy of banishment?

For context, Cunners had 3 possessions in the 1st quarter and 1 in the 2nd, he didn’t touch the ball in a whole half of football

Newens kick goals every week and people wanna drop him. Absurd.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

That was a stark lesson in self belief and confidence. The early lead was almost a curse. It was almost as if they decided gift us the 1st quarter. It's clear we are still somewhat mentally fragile to a degree. We'll be better for it I believe.
The contrast between the first and second quarters tells you everything you need to know.
I liked Crippa attempting to run around. In hindsight not the right decision but he stands for something and is willing to put his ass on the line and have a crack. He'll take a lot out of that and I'd say even by now he's team mates will ribbing him for it.

The talent is there and we just need to keep putting our heads to the grind stone. Consistency will come.
Go back and watch the doggies came if you're feeling a little down on this one.
We've got what it takes and we're close to the next step.
I wasn't expecting finals this year. I was in the 9th-12th bracket. that's what we should realistically be expecting.
And that's where we're at folks.

 

[Stamos]

Coaches' Votes

9 - Jack Gunston (HAW)
8 - Tom Mitchell (HAW)
7 - Liam Shiels (HAW)
4 - Sam Frost (HAW)
1 - Patrick Cripps (CARL)
1 - Isaac Smith (HAW)

 

[Coops93]

We don't seem to have the ability to weather a storm. You often see teams feel the heat switch gears and play some possession for a little while and take the sting out, but we really only play the same way and if it's not working then we don't have an answer. When you could feel the Hawks coming we probably needed to switch our style to weather what they were throwing out, very similar to the Geelong game. Once Geelong started coming we had no answer and no ability to just take the sting out of things.

The way we play is all one way and it works very well when you're the one winning the contest, but once we're not winning the contest we don't have a 2nd gear to swtich to at the moment.

That could be leadership on field or it could be how we're coached. I know Teague often talks about playing an attractive style and wanting to entertain, so that could be part of his development. Recognising when we need to pull back a bit. You can't play exciting attacking football all game long, sometimes you need to play the territory and possession game. I'd say that's the next stage in David and the teams development.

 

[Coops93]

Coaches' Votes

9 - Jack Gunston (HAW)
8 - Tom Mitchell (HAW)
7 - Liam Shiels (HAW)
4 - Sam Frost (HAW)
1 - Patrick Cripps (CARL)
1 - Isaac Smith (HAW)

I don't know why Cripps' has received so much criticism. Yes he had a couple of boneheaded moments, but overall I thought that was perhaps his best game for the season - he has been pretty down (by his standards) for most of it.

He tried to do too much a couple of times because no one else was doing anything. I don't blame him for it.

 

[Sector 7G]

Newens kick goals every week and people wanna drop him. Absurd.

Newnes panic and coughs up a t least a goal a week to counter his goal.
This week 1 was taking advantage from a free kick directly in front and a handball at the top of the square when Setters was free and could easily have kicked the goal. Not as if he created the opportunities.

 

[Stephene]

My seats were on the wing half forward for this game so got a good perspective of the whole ground...what was really obvious or what it appeared to be was our lack of fitness in that second quarter...maybe they had spent all their tickets in the first..time and again it seemed Hawthorn just ran off our guys to easy and we couldn't chase.....??

 

[Gethelred]

Newens kick goals every week and people wanna drop him. Absurd.

.... which is an essential trait for a forward to have, and a valuable one for a midfielder, but - and here's the kicker - there are other metrics by which midfielders are judged.

By some of those metrics, he is not performing adequately, in my opinion. I don't think he's far off, but as far as things go we need more from him than just the goals he's kicking. He needs to lay more tackles, needs to pick the safe option by foot, or if one isn't available to play the percentages better, and he needs to cover more ground.

I'm also not saying dropped. He needs to do more to keep his position, in the event of a full list being available.

 

[Moody Blue]

We all know that this team is only going to improve by the kids coming on and playing well.
Cuningham, Kennedy, Setterfield, SPS, McKay and Walsh were all poor or had no impact on the game. Until they improve we are going nowhere.

If anybody saw the look on Cripps face after the game, it was that of a guy who was well and truly over his team mates, and their lack of heart. The club needs to get another quality A grade midfielder in the team to help out Cripps. Until that happens we are staying fixed in the bottom 4-6. If we lose Cripps to a long term injury then you will see how exposed we become in the midfield. McGovern has been a complete flop and unless something drastically changes, he will be lucky to see out his over inflated contract. If and when Princess 'Megan' Curnow ever graces the field again, I can't see how you can have McGovern in that team.

Kennedy is not upto AFL. Been saying it for the past two years, but they keep playing him. SPS is going backwards in his development and perhaps time to look to a WA club for a trade. Walsh will be a champion just needs time. Setterfield goes missing when it gets hard Cunningham needs to work on his defensive game. Murphy, really needs to give it away. His disposal is getting worse as each year passes. We also need another quality ruckman as Pittonet is a 5 year project at best. Pointless blaming the forwards when the ball does not come into their area after quarter time. If the players are struggling with 15 min quarters imagine when the game goes back to normal next season.

 

[Broadside]

Coaches' Votes

9 - Jack Gunston (HAW)
8 - Tom Mitchell (HAW)
7 - Liam Shiels (HAW)
4 - Sam Frost (HAW)
1 - Patrick Cripps (CARL)
1 - Isaac Smith (HAW)

this is strange I thought Cripps had a bit of a stinker whereas Weitering was a rock for us.

 

[Accidental genius]

Newnes panic and coughs up a t least a goal a week to counter his goal.
This week 1 was taking advantage from a free kick directly in front and a handball at the top of the square when Setters was free and could easily have kicked the goal. Not as if he created the opportunities.

Sorry I don’t agree with your line of thinking. I have never heard of negative excuses being made for a player that kicks goals. I will take every goal we can get. If newnes has the nouse/goal sense to put himself in an advantageous position to score then that is a good thing in my books. We only kicked 7 goals last week.

 

[Stamos]

Sorry I don’t agree with your line of thinking. I have never heard of negative excuses being made for a player that kicks goals. I will take every goal we can get. If newnes has the nouse/goal sense to put himself in an advantageous position to score then that is a good thing in my books. We only kicked 7 goals last week.

If he's playing forward, then that might be reasonable.
You need to acknowledge that for other positions there are more requirements.

 

[Macca43]

Not denying that I agree with most of your post, but I wanted to point out something that frustrates me. You have bracketed Newnes name for a clip, 6 touches is garbage and want him dropped, it’s not an unreasonable idea, what’s frustrating is, Cuningham who had 4 possessions, yes 4, isn’t on your list and you want to play him in the midfield. Why is his 4 possessions not worthy of banishment?

For context, Cunners had 3 possessions in the 1st quarter and 1 in the 2nd, he didn’t touch the ball in a whole half of football

TO me the reason Newnes should be dropped isn't his possessions but his fumble in the centre circles when Williamson had put on a good block for him which led directly to a Hawthorn goal. He has far too many of these moments for an experienced mature player.

 

[Accidental genius]

If anybody saw the look on Cripps face after the game, it was that of a guy who was well and truly over his team mates, and their lack of heart. The club needs to get another quality A grade midfielder in the team to help out Cripps. Until that happens we are staying fixed in the bottom 4-6. If we lose Cripps to a long term injury then you will see how exposed we become in the midfield. McGovern has been a complete flop and unless something drastically changes, he will be lucky to see out his over inflated contract. If and when Princess 'Megan' Curnow ever graces the field again, I can't see how you can have McGovern in that team.

Kennedy is not upto AFL. Been saying it for the past two years, but they keep playing him. SPS is going backwards in his development and perhaps time to look to a WA club for a trade. Walsh will be a champion just needs time. Setterfield goes missing when it gets hard Cunningham needs to work on his defensive game. Murphy, really needs to give it away. His disposal is getting worse as each year passes. We also need another quality ruckman as Pittonet is a 5 year project at best. Pointless blaming the forwards when the ball does not come into their area after quarter time. If the players are struggling with 15 min quarters imagine when the game goes back to normal next season.

Cripps behaviours were different last week. Not sure what to make of it though.

 

[Accidental genius]

If he's playing forward, then that might be reasonable.
You need to acknowledge that for other positions there are more requirements.

Ok. He needs to work on other areas but in last weeks game how many other low possession gatherers/fumblers did we have? At least newnes kicked 2 goals.

 

[Macca43]

I think I am finally able to bring myself to talk about footy again.

I missed the first quarter of the game and my recollections of the rest of the game are blurred by the fog of frustration and anger that descended on me as we got simply smashed in the second quarter and never left from then on but here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

1) We made a massive mistake going with Moore over TDK - with Natanui awaiting on Sunday we need to make that change.
2) Our effort actually hurt us - I was pretty impressed by our tackling pressure but we couldn't stop of the hawks getting the ball away and eventually they found the loose man. Also too often we had multiple players charging at the contest and spoiling each other creating the loose man for the hawks - need to be smarter not harder.
3) Bad options - Jones and someone else coming out of defence from a free kick/mark laced out the opposition with no Carlton player anywhere near them, Cripps (?) burned Eddie Betts in the pocket, Cripps tried to take on the man on the mark, McKay gave off the hand ball after marking on 50 (I could go on) - need to be smarter.
4) Hawthorn had a good day, last week the hawks couldn't hit a target under no pressure, this week they couldn't miss a chest from a scrambled kick - the 4 umpiring decisions at the start of the last (deliberate against Pittonet, the missed throw, not paying advantage to Murph and the high tackle against Willo) capped off a good day.
5) Cripps wanted to do it all -when Cripps is at his best he is dishing off handballs setting people into space, this week all he wanted to do was take on the tackler use his speed and kick long - not his go.
6) Newnes continues to frustrate - I missed his 2 goals but that fumble in the middle of the ground had me once again yelling "f..king Newnes" - we have some young blokes who deserve a shot, he wouldn't be the worst one to make way.