Strategy What is going wrong? A discussion of tactics, strategy and execution issues and how to fix them

[tommyk72]

Excellent analysis here by ABC:

Where did it all go wrong for Hawthorn? There's a handful of reasons

Hawthorn ruled the AFL from 2013 to 2015, but the cost of that sustained success appears to be being paid now, with the club's dizzying highs precipitating a rapid fall from grace.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Come back Cyril]

Not sure if it was the blues doing a poor job of containing it, but we clearly did a much better job of quickly playing on into the corridor, even when it was a risky kick.

And boy did it make us look like a better team.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Not sure if it was the blues doing a poor job of containing it, but we clearly did a much better job of quickly playing on into the corridor, even when it was a risky kick.

And boy did it make us look like a better team.

I'd say the 4 ins had a lot to do with that as well as playing on a bigger ground in good conditions.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Thought of this post after seeing Clarko's presser

We also go to ground a lot. You will see a counter of time we go to ground in the passage of play...it is 7 time to 2. And we only bring the demons to ground once (the other time a demon goes to ground tackling a hawk).

 

[TheFourPillars]

The game plan and structures are a framework to work with it brings predictability and when executed consistency. The first 15 minutes was a perfect example of why we were sttuggling.

We were struggling to get our hands on it and even when we did we gave it straight back with our disposal efficiency. Once we were able to get the ball and retain going deep inside 50 we were able to score. Our confidence and pressure increased and we were away. There was no game plan change just execution. Ability of the players to be more daring take risks and play as a team.

 

[Brishawk]

The game plan and structures are a framework to work with it brings predictability and when executed consistency. The first 15 minutes was a perfect example of why we were sttuggling.

We were struggling to get our hands on it and even when we did we gave it straight back with our disposal efficiency. Once we were able to get the ball and retain going deep inside 50 we were able to score. Our confidence and pressure increased and we were away. There was no game plan change just execution. Ability of the players to be more daring take risks and play as a team.

You are right. While I haven’t reviewed the game footage yet, I’m confident it will show we did not collapse in on the contest for the ball near as much. Held our position much better which made our exits from stoppages a lot better.

 

[extractasam]

Not sure if it’s been noted previously, but thought Mitchell was a lot more damaging via hand. The quick fire forward handball out of congestion/stoppages did a lot for us and generated run. Haven’t unpicked much of toms game in years prior, but I can’t always remember seeing much of it from him before.

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

Not sure if it’s been noted previously, but thought Mitchell was a lot more damaging via hand. The quick fire forward handball out of congestion/stoppages did a lot for us and generated run. Haven’t unpicked much of toms game in years prior, but I can’t always remember seeing much of it from him before.

I agree. Mitchell has had a year off footy, just needs to work his way back.

 

[KermitJagger]

Not sure if it’s been noted previously, but thought Mitchell was a lot more damaging via hand. The quick fire forward handball out of congestion/stoppages did a lot for us and generated run. Haven’t unpicked much of toms game in years prior, but I can’t always remember seeing much of it from him before.

It doesn't get reported on often, but there is an assisted metres gained metric tracked by Champion Data. Titch was #1 in that from 2017, 2018 and is presently about 3rd or 4th in 2020.

 

[Pessimistic]

So, apart from Sicily at the Hawks and Moore at the Pies, which other teams have potentially their best 'key' forward at CHB?

Would it be easier to free Sicily from CHB than find a forward who can fit the bill?

(I realise Sicily is more Gunstons size)

 

[Falco131415]

So, apart from Sicily at the Hawks and Moore at the Pies, which other teams have potentially their best 'key' forward at CHB?

Would it be easier to free Sicily from CHB than find a forward who can fit the bill?

(I realise Sicily is more Gunstons size)

See your point Pess but SIS is so damaging on that half back line with his intercept marking.
Intercept marks in the backline are only bettered by marks in the F50 that are shots at goal in my opinion.

 

[Pessimistic]

With tassie off the radar, once hawks leave WA it will be either qld or sa for remaining games. Whichever happens our opponents will have had recent chances to be familiar with the venues.

2020, where hawks effectively had one home game, in round 1. Eight wins is commendable in those circumstances. 50% record playing away

 

[CD Xbow]

With tassie off the radar, once hawks leave WA it will be either qld or sa for remaining games. Whichever happens our opponents will have had recent chances to be familiar with the venues.

2020, where hawks effectively had one home game, in round 1. Eight wins is commendable in those circumstances. 50% record playing away

Not sure that sort of metric means much in a year like this with hubs. Still it's positive thinking.

 

[Pessimistic]

So far in 2020
Home ground game where opponent travelled: Bris
Neutral ground (similar experience): Richmond; Carlton
Away game or opponent more experience: Fremantle; West Coast; Geelong; Sydney; Giants; North; Melbourne (+1 game); Collingwood (+1 Game)

To come: Adelaide or Port (one in SA, one in qld) Gold Coast; St Kilda (+3 or +1) Bulldogs (+5 or +1) Essendon (+4 or +1)

To be as fair as possible, Hawks Queensland Home games need to be at the Gabba.

Compare that to Brisbane, who have just 3 away games for the season, where they lost 2 from 3

 

[extractasam]

It doesn't get reported on often, but there is an assisted metres gained metric tracked by Champion Data. Titch was #1 in that from 2017, 2018 and is presently about 3rd or 4th in 2020.

Interesting, never knew that stat existed.
Although still pretty skeptical on just how accurate metres gained really is, routinely only has 1-3 players gaining metres at all per quarter.
Discussion for another thread anyway I guess.
Who leads that stat this year out of curiosity?

 

[Brishawk]

Interesting, never knew that stat existed.
Although still pretty skeptical on just how accurate metres gained really is, routinely only has 1-3 players gaining metres at all per quarter.
Discussion for another thread anyway I guess.
Who leads that stat this year out of curiosity?

Meters gained can have negative. So if the team is chipping it around back and forth and that sort of thing you can have a lot of possessions for few meters gained. Mids and forwards usually have low meters while half backs and wings will have a lot because they tend to kick long. It is an overrated stat in the sense it really describes roles not effectiveness but it was fashionable for a year or two to pick players with high meters gained hence Birchall missed on a AA or two because he used the ball shorter but more effectively than anyone else which created open field for us.

 

[KermitJagger]

Interesting, never knew that stat existed.
Although still pretty skeptical on just how accurate metres gained really is, routinely only has 1-3 players gaining metres at all per quarter.
Discussion for another thread anyway I guess.
Who leads that stat this year out of curiosity?

For assisted metres gained? Not sure, hasn't been reported on.

I would imagine it'd be Neale based on disposals.

 

[extractasam]

Meters gained can have negative. So if the team is chipping it around back and forth and that sort of thing you can have a lot of possessions for few meters gained. Mids and forwards usually have low meters while half backs and wings will have a lot because they tend to kick long. It is an overrated stat in the sense it really describes roles not effectiveness but it was fashionable for a year or two to pick players with high meters gained hence Birchall missed on a AA or two because he used the ball shorter but more effectively than anyone else which created open field for us.

Just find it interesting sometimes that some teams ( I just checked last nights game for example) have 0 players gain any metres in a quarter. The stat claims Port Adelaide last night didnt have 1 player with metres gained in Q4. Not even 1 metre? Surely cant be correct?

 

[Brishawk]

Just find it interesting sometimes that some teams ( I just checked last nights game for example) have 0 players gain any metres in a quarter. The stat claims Port Adelaide last night didnt have 1 player with metres gained in Q4. Not even 1 metre? Surely cant be correct?

Probably not correct. There might be lags in that data coming through.

 

[Brishawk]

In this video we will see some stoppages for the first quarter and some from the second quarter. There was a really clear difference between how we structured up around the ball and the ruckman.

I think holding position away from the contest was a very clear message to the playing group at quarter time and we appear to employ a structure I call the sandwich to improve both our offensive and defensive performance around stoppages.

 

[Gralin]

In this video we will see some stoppages for the first quarter and some from the second quarter. There was a really clear difference between how we structured up around the ball and the ruckman.

I think holding position away from the contest was a very clear message to the playing group at quarter time and we appear to employ a structure I call the sandwich to improve both our offensive and defensive performance around stoppages.

I wonder if it was a message from before the game that got reinforced and the second time they managed to do it.

 

[Brishawk]

I wonder if it was a message from before the game that got reinforced and the second time they managed to do it.

Almost certainly. After carlton kick the first goal of the second quarter (which happens After all those stoppages) at the centre bounce we end up with shiels and Mitchell colliding into each other chasing the ball. It’s like when under pressure we feel the need to hunt the footy harder. Fortunately we got away with it and the rest is history. I think it will take some time to really iron it out of our game. But the team have seen it work so I’m sure we will see better stoppage performance from here on in.

 

[On Topic]

In this video we will see some stoppages for the first quarter and some from the second quarter. There was a really clear difference between how we structured up around the ball and the ruckman.

I think holding position away from the contest was a very clear message to the playing group at quarter time and we appear to employ a structure I call the sandwich to improve both our offensive and defensive performance around stoppages.

I’m very hungry all of the sudden. Can’t quite point out why.

Maybe I’ll have a sandwich

 

[Brishawk]

I’m very hungry all of the sudden. Can’t quite point out why.

Maybe I’ll have a sandwich

This video was proudly brought to you by Subway. Think fresh

 

[Brishawk]

I hope this link works!

Well worth watching this video. There are a few things subtly mentioned in this video that have been discussed in this thread. Keeping feet and running to where your next involvement are two important facets. But also being aware of your position and being aware the space around you.