Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Yoda_]

Oh, there is no way we proactively trade anyone. That's the problem. We unbalanced the team severely primarily while burning first round picks so we're not going to be able to concede that any time soon.

Someone summed it up perfectly in another thread/post that. Adrian Dodoro will try to get as many top end pieces together while compromising the overall functionality of the team/squad.

 

[CBombers17]

Could you imagine the uprar if we traded Zac Merret for two firsts?

It'd be heinous to even think that (imho). Would I do it? Possibly. The two firsts would need to be at least one top 5 and a second inside the top 15 (even if it were a future pick).

I doubt anyone is giving that up though.

I'd take that in a heartbeat (I'd be happy with a good young inside mid and a pick myself), but personally i don't think he's a damaging enough footballer to justify a club offering it - a couple of years ago yes.

We battle so hard to pick mids of any variety i can't see them moving on him or Parish no matter what. We should see something for Daniher or Fantasia if they move on of course.

Then just sit back and watch Dodoro work the midfield magic at draft time. I could easily see us going for another KPF, a 200cm KPD and a 6"3 hybrid flanker followed by pick 53 on an inside mid

 

[CBombers17]

Oh, there is no way we proactively trade anyone. That's the problem. We unbalanced the team severely primarily while burning first round picks so we're not going to be able to concede that any time soon.

Thus my comments around coaching. I think we needed what nobody at the club would want. Someone that any big ego's or problem people would hate. Someone to come in and do whatever they wanted/needed to ensure success.

Someone to happily tell the board and the list manager the midfield is a *en joke that needs fixing in the next 18 months and to get on with doing the deals.

Something tells me we don't like truth tellers at Essendon. There's been plenty of comments about Dimma saying it how it was and look what they went for. Hirdy and Bomba actually wanted to win and the joint nearly collapsed in on itself under their intensity. Woosha didn't even upset anyone with a game plan let alone make demands on list strategy.

It will be interesting to see if we in the same place with another internal candidate. I would bet we are but we will see.

 

[andleanback]

We tend to focus more on individual talent than overall list management. Essendon has a tonne of good talent - including players in every area of the ground. Talent isn't the problem.

What Essendon has lacked - and what Dodoro has never understood - is how to fit pieces together. Five great midfielders, all with a similar skill-set, may not be as successful as three great midfielders with two players who complement their abilities.

A good list manager would be asking what type of player he needs to surround Shiel or Merrett to unlock the most damaging version of those players. Both Shiel and Merrett are more than capable of being top 10 midfielders in this league - both have been top 10 midfielders at various points in their careers.

A good list manager would be willing to sacrifice players who might be highly talented but don't complement the existing structure or core playing group. How often has Dodoro traded talent for better fitting pieces?

Dodoro has never really understood what it takes to build a successful list. He stockpiles talent, with almost no regard to how well the pieces fit together. Our midfield - with the exception of Heppell - is mostly just four types of the exact same player.

A good football club would have removed Dodoro a half-decade ago. A great football club would have removed him a decade ago. That speaks volumes about who we are and what we stand for.

Yep system wins games over individual talent these days.

 

[Who are ya]

I think we have reason to be fairly optimistic for the future.

FB: Ridley - BZT - Saad
HB: Redman - Francis - Gleeson
C: Ham - Shiel - Merrett
R: Draper - McGrath - Parish
HF: Smith - ????? - Langford
FF: Stringer - ????? - Tippa
IC: Snelling - Heppell

Daniher, Fantasia, McKenna all clearly have AFL talent but unsure on their future at the club.

That is a shocking half back line. In fact that’s nothing more than a middle of the road side.

 

[Ambrosia]

That is a shocking half back line. In fact that’s nothing more than a middle of the road side.

I think the back 6 is fairly strong and doesn’t really matter where they are named.

Agree that it’s only middle of the road. The theory is we have 4 plus years to add talent to that the base plus the chance that one or more of Daniher, Fantasia and McKenna break in our favour.

 

[CBombers17]

I think the back 6 is fairly strong and doesn’t really matter where they are named.

Agree that it’s only middle of the road. The theory is we have 4 plus years to add talent to that the base plus the chance that one or more of Daniher, Fantasia and McKenna break in our favour.

The problem is we'd need them all to break and upgrades on at least 5 players in your 22 to be a good side.

 

[Ambrosia]

The problem is we'd need them all to break and upgrades on at least 5 players in your 22 to be a good side.

Feels overly pessimistic. Ridley, Draper, BZT, Snelling and Ham have all played less than 20 games. Plenty of upside there.

Hurley, Hooker, Zaharakis, Heppell all due to come off overpaid contracts over the next two years should free up cap space for potential FAs/out of contract players.

Yes there is a big concern that we look set to continue to be mid table but things can change quickly.

 

[quotemokc]

Realistically we have to find an instant impact player after the first round like Merrett.

 

[Who are ya]

I think the back 6 is fairly strong and doesn’t really matter where they are named.

Agree that it’s only middle of the road. The theory is we have 4 plus years to add talent to that the base plus the chance that one or more of Daniher, Fantasia and McKenna break in our favour.

The full back line you’ve posted is strong. Redman has shown he’s generally pretty capable, Gleeson should only be depth. I just don’t see Francis making it. I’d take whatever we can get for him and find someone in the draft.

The midfield is just the same type of players and I’ve got absolutely no faith in our recruiting department finding a different type thru the draft. It’ll just be the same old, recruit a kid who’s played all his footy on a flank then try turning them into a mid.

We’re in a for a few more years of nothingness unfortunately with the current squad we’ve got.

 

[ant555]

Harding has given the current coaching group a bit of a clip in todays SHS but there is a lot in it that you can not argue with including asking the question about us being in no mans land.

 

[Ambrosia]

Harding has given the current coaching group a bit of a clip in todays SHS but there is a lot in it that you can not argue with including asking the question about us being in no mans land.

It just seems like the club is not worried about being in no mans land at all.

 

[BrunoV]

The full back line you’ve posted is strong. Redman has shown he’s generally pretty capable, Gleeson should only be depth. I just don’t see Francis making it. I’d take whatever we can get for him and find someone in the draft.

The midfield is just the same type of players and I’ve got absolutely no faith in our recruiting department finding a different type thru the draft. It’ll just be the same old, recruit a kid who’s played all his footy on a flank then try turning them into a mid.

We’re in a for a few more years of nothingness unfortunately with the current squad we’ve got.

I don't think the administrative structure even allows for it.

Clarkson or Hardwick would be the only coaches with enough gravitas for the board to listen.

It's the issue with the divide between coaching and recruitment.

 

[Yoda_]

Harding has given the current coaching group a bit of a clip in todays SHS but there is a lot in it that you can not argue with including asking the question about us being in no mans land.

Could you send me the article in a PM? I haven't subscribed to HS (am seriously considering it since the mrs has bloody Netflix, Stan, Disney+, Binge).

Would be a good article to read if he says some truths about us

 

[Yoda_]

Realistically we have to find an instant impact player after the first round like Merrett.

Getting top end talent is easier in the top end of the draft. We have'n't recruited a top echelon pick since Heppel and that was 10 years ago. Hoping McGrath ends up a top end mid but the others from his draft year are closing fast if not overtaken him

 

[CBombers17]

Feels overly pessimistic. Ridley, Draper, BZT, Snelling and Ham have all played less than 20 games. Plenty of upside there.

Hurley, Hooker, Zaharakis, Heppell all due to come off overpaid contracts over the next two years should free up cap space for potential FAs/out of contract players.

Yes there is a big concern that we look set to continue to be mid table but things can change quickly.

The First three players you mention there is no argument. The next 2 players are not strong arguments for being a good to very good side (Ham/Snelling).

If being a top 4 side in the next 4 years is the the aim i would think-

FB: Ridley - BZT - Saad
HB: Redman - ???? - Francis
C: (Ham????) - Shiel - Merrett
R: Draper - McGrath - Parish
HF: (Smith????) - ???? - Langford
FF: Stringer - ???? - Tippa
IC: (Snelling ????) - (Heppell ????) (Gleeson????)

Of your future 22 I'd have confidence in 13 as part of a Top 4 best 22. Effectively we need to replace or improve or upgrade 9 spots and that includes finding 3 quality best 22 KPP's..

I'm not saying we can't do it. Some on the current list will come through and fill these spots for sure. The biggest reason for caution is that the rest requires certain key people at the club to get things right that haven't so far IMO.

 

[Yoda_]

The First three players you mention there is no argument. The next 2 players are not strong arguments for being a good to very good side (Ham/Snelling).

If being a top 4 side in the next 4 years is the the aim i would think-

FB: Ridley - BZT - Saad
HB: Redman - ???? - Francis
C: (Ham????) - Shiel - Merrett
R: Draper - McGrath - Parish
HF: (Smith????) - ???? - Langford
FF: Stringer - ???? - Tippa
IC: (Snelling ????) - (Heppell ????) (Gleeson????)

Of your future 22 I'd have confidence in 13 as part of a Top 4 best 22. Effectively we need to replace or improve or upgrade 9 spots and that includes finding 3 quality best 22 KPP's..

I'm not saying we can't do it. Some on the current list will come through and fill these spots for sure. The biggest reason for caution is that the rest requires certain key people at the ckub to get things right that haven't so far IMO.

Great post!

 

[quotemokc]

Getting top end talent is easier in the top end of the draft. We have'n't recruited a top echelon pick since Heppel and that was 10 years ago. Hoping McGrath ends up a top end mid but the others from his draft year are closing fast if not overtaken him

That is my point, its easy(er) to find a good player in the first round, but finding an instant impact player later in the draft makes such a difference.

 

[Ambrosia]

The First three players you mention there is no argument. The next 2 players are not strong arguments for being a good to very good side (Ham/Snelling).

If being a top 4 side in the next 4 years is the the aim i would think-

FB: Ridley - BZT - Saad
HB: Redman - ???? - Francis
C: (Ham????) - Shiel - Merrett
R: Draper - McGrath - Parish
HF: (Smith????) - ???? - Langford
FF: Stringer - ???? - Tippa
IC: (Snelling ????) - (Heppell ????) (Gleeson????)

Of your future 22 I'd have confidence in 13 as part of a Top 4 best 22. Effectively we need to replace or improve or upgrade 9 spots and that includes finding 3 quality best 22 KPP's..

I'm not saying we can't do it. Some on the current list will come through and fill these spots for sure. The biggest reason for caution is that the rest requires certain key people at the ckub to get things right that haven't so far IMO.

I’m bullish on Smith, Gleeson, Snelling and Ham. Also don’t see why Francis can’t play CHB. Agree Heppell may well be cooked.

I’m more concerned about the club not making hard calls on over the hill players then actually finding/developing the requisite talent.

 

[Yoda_]

That is my point, its easy(er) to find a good player in the first round, but finding an instant impact player later in the draft makes such a difference.

I would argue that Dodo has found better players later in the draft than most other list managers. NOT ALL - MOST

 

[quotemokc]

I would argue that Dodo has found better players later in the draft than most other list managers. NOT ALL - MOST

That is true, but he hasn't drafted a player that is a regular in our 22 their first year later than the first round since Merrett.

Its not easy to do but it is what separate the good from the great list managers.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Had threads in previous years but they all seem closed, so...

While the midfield seems to have been all the focus of recruiting and improvement, I think this is the area we really need to bed down heading into 2021.

Due largely to injury it hasn't functioned consistently since 2017. That's three years now. It surely needs some attention. We've relied on injury-prone players since 2017 and it's let us down, time and time again.

Stringer: no-brainer and our best forward.

Hooker: think the time has come to return him forward permanently. His lack of agility is a bit of a problem - so he needs to be surrounded by quicker teammates - but he more than makes up for it with presence and marking. Given we have Hurley, BZT, Ambrose, Ridley and Francis, it's tough to argue that he's not now better utilised forward.

Tipungwuti: super-dangerous small forward.

Langford: I'm one that wishes we'd play him largely as a permanent forward. He had great hands, seems to position well and is a great kick for goal. I think he has the potential to be a solid Jack Gunston-type, rather than a hit-and-miss "midfielder".

Daniher: the big one. I really don't know what to say about him? He gets fit or he doesn't, he stays or he goes. Obviously he's either a permanent fixture, or we look for a repalcement.

Fantasia: great when 'on'... but the injuries. Doing calves now, which isn't a great sign.

Laverde: don't mind him, but will we ever see him get a run at it?

Stewart: yet another injury-prone forward. Spending basically three years out of the game is going to hurt anybody. Who knows whether he can get back?

McKernan: reckon he looked good in 2018 and 2019, but seems to have regressed a little this year. Needs help. Even of he's not a best-22 selection, I wouldn't be against keep him around. His size and ability to play in the ruck makes him good depth.

Smith: effective mid / half forward, though doesn't quite seem fit... or something.

Snelling: good nuisance value, I don't mind him.

Townsend: can be effective but a bit of a blunt instrument.

Cahill: worth persisting with for a bit, I think. Knows where the goals are.

Begley: personally, I hope to see more on him in the midfield. But I guess we'll see.

Plus we have the young blokes who haven't played yet.

So what?

Well, firstly, I don't think we can spend another year "hoping" for our best forward line to get fit. It's just not going to happen with so many long-term, injury prone players.

I'd look to rebuild the core of the forward line. And it'd revolve around Hooker, Stringer, Langford and Tipungwuti.

The injured: I don't think we can carry all of Daniher, Fantasia, Stewart and Laverde any longer. It's four spots on our list dedicated to forwards who barely get on the park. Obviously you can keep 1-2 around, but having this many is becoming a huge burden and impacting our planning. Revolves around Daniher, obviously... if he happens to stay, then I don't think we can keep both of Stewart and Laverde - both of whom are out of contract. How many perennially injured forwards can we have on the list?

I'd be happy to shop Fantasia - again he's just too injury prone. No idea what we'd fetch. Perhaps a mid-late second-rounder.

End of ramble. Shoot it down.

 

[Ambrosia]

That is true, but he hasn't drafted a player that is a regular in our 22 their first year later than the first round since Merrett.

Its not easy to do but it is what separate the good from the great list managers.

I don't see how the first year matters a ton in the scheme of things.

 

[Yoda_]

That is true, but he hasn't drafted a player that is a regular in our 22 their first year later than the first round since Merrett.

Its not easy to do but it is what separate the good from the great list managers.

First round?

Wouldn't that include Ridley (pick 22)? Wouldnt that include Mason Redman (pick 30), Tippa was a rookie pick in 2015.

At least if you make things up, get something close to the mark please

 

[CBombers17]

If anyone who's read the Harding article could give a bit of a run down it would be greatly appreciated!