Preview Changes: R11 vs Collingwood

[1970crow]

It's just like our defensive numbers being 2nd in the comp. It's a symptom of a god-awful midfield.

Hard to know on thst, I did see a post, but not sure what bundle of stats make up 'defensive numbers'. Rebound 50s have been huge all year, if that's what he's looking at then he's a simpleton.

 

[croweater 41]

Does Keays go to Sidebottom or Adams? Both are likely to rack up career best numbers against us.

Keays to Sidebottom imo.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Schoenberg follow Adams around not as a tag as such but a learning run. I think (key word think) he was shadowing Petracca around contests last game but wasn't keeping a full check on him as such.

 

[Betts are off]

I think us being so sh*t gives it a bit of mayo for Kornes to apply. The, "how about you concentrate on doing football good first". His attempted link to targeting an injury was pretty pathetic and the boys on the footy show tore that side of it to shreds. I don't mind Kornes commentary these days, but some of his written work smacks of being written months before and he then gets it published at first opportunity. The Betts article a perfect example. Rooch used to do this as well.

I just can't believe how many people in here still allow themselves to be trolled by Kane Kornes.

109kg, 208cm Max Gawn getting off the ball bullied by 70kg, 179cm Ned McHenry? Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard! Gawns shoulder would be 20+ cm above McHenry's, he would literally have to bend over to hip and shoulder McHenry back. If he's worried about his shoulder he simply wouldn't do it (and would probably receive a free).

This story has about as much credibility as a AFL.com media employee

 

[Cap]

I saw the footage on Ch.9 yesterday, showing what some of the Crows did to Gawn 40/60/80 metres off the ball. Dirty tactic, not in the spirit of the game, any game; unnecessary. Smacked of Toby Greene-level dirty play.
I didn't like it, at all.

Yeah, let's go back to being called Choir boys, that worked a treat.

Its long overdue from this club and I 100% support it.

 

[1970crow]

I just can't believe how many people in here still allow themselves to be trolled by Kane Kornes.

109kg, 208cm Max Gawn getting off the ball bullied by 70kg, 179cm Ned McHenry? Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard! Gawns shoulder would be 20+ cm above McHenry's, he would literally have to bend over to hip and shoulder McHenry back. If he's worried about his shoulder he simply wouldn't do it (and would probably receive a free).

This story has about as much credibility as a AFL.com media employee

I pretty much enjoy the entire landscape for what it is. Caro I don't so much detest her work, more that people believed she was some kind of objective journalist. Gerard has fast become the Waly Aleed of AFL journalism. But I'm happy to watch, listen and disagree if I find myself watching. I couldn't name a commentator that bothers me, Bruce is getting a bit tired though. This is the entertainment side of the industry, nothing to be passionate about, agree, disagree, but don't care.

 

[Vhaluus]

Why all this talk about tagging?

As a rebuilding side it should be about teaching kids to play the game at the right level.

Tagging is for when you care about winning rather than developing which we shouldn't currently.

Play your man absolutely, but not at the expense of your own game.

Otherwise we're hindering development for a very short term and utterly inconsequential gain.

 

[Betts are off]

Why all this talk about tagging?

As a rebuilding side it should be about teaching kids to play the game at the right level.

Tagging is for when you care about winning rather than developing which we shouldn't currently.

Play your man absolutely, but not at the expense of your own game.

Otherwise we're hindering development for a very short term and utterly inconsequential gain.

A Collingwood fan asked whether our tagger Kaeys would be used to tag Sidebottom or Adams. Its was just people responding to a question, not a suggestion that we actively tag

 

[CrowBloke]

What???...

“spirit of the game”???... “dirty tactics arent right”???.. “unnecessary”!

come on... you dont actually believe in that horseshit do you?.

if Gawn is deemed fit to play by his football club then how can anyone take issue with a few bumps off the ball etc..

what next?.. we have the coach of a club entering the changerooms of the opposing team before a game and asking kindly “look, ah, Maxy’s is a bit sore this week.. his shoulder aint 100%.. do you guys mind just laying off it tonight?.. cheers lads”..

faaark that..

Seems this drafting tactic of picking “good respectful kids from fine backgrounds and great families” is promoting a softness thats starting to leech into the brains of our supporters..

We are hated.. the vicco’s have always hated us as they have always viewed us as a quasi state team through the lense of state of origin..

The port flogs down the road hate us because they have massive chips on their shoulder and are still sooking cause we got the license to enter the AFL that they wanted and they instead got a massive b*tch slap from the SANFL and AFL. They’ll never get over it.

I say.. time to actually give these tossers something to really hate us for... unsociable football and tonnes of it please.

+

Hard to tell if this is a wind up post, or if this is Neil Craigs secret account? We have been one of the 'friendliest teams' over the last decade - it's won us 0 premierships and 0 friends. I want a team who plays hard 'unsociable football' and wins premierships.

+ others....
"Neil Craig's secret account", ah ha HAAA, hilarious, yeah, I am Neil Craig / "horseshit", well-argued.

It looks like I am pretty much alone on this, with derisive name-callers inspired.
All critics have not acknowledged that I've made a clear distinction between toughness on and around the ball --- flatten the bloke with the ball, legally, by all means every chance you get and if that reduces his effectiveness for the rest of the game, even better --- and cheap hits and illegal mongrel acts off the ball.

I want the Crows' opponents to fear them, to not want to play them, to think twice about going for the hard ball because they know they're going to get moonched/tackled/bumped (perceived pressure, hearing footsteps), relentlessly and hard (which is certainly not happening, now). But you gotta be able to move around the ground without some anger-venting mug blindsiding you with an unexpected King-hit which is the act of a coward.
It's not brave or difficult to clobber someone then run away when they're off the ball and (like the Umps) not looking.

 

[CrowBloke]

P.S.

Are we at the point where Gawn says "Goody, I'm right to play this week, but do you mind having a chat to the other team to take it easy on my shoulder". Please.

This is not what I meant, not at all.

 

[CrowBloke]

... then do it until a whistle blows.

This is a fair point. What the Umps/AFL tolerate, they'll get more of.

 

[CrowBloke]

1) He wasn't being t@ken out, he was being mildly physically pestered in order to screw with his head. 2) A tactic which has apparently worked in the past as he gets frustrated and it impacts his output.
3) You're making it out like he was being felled behind play.

1) and 3) Nope, never said they took Gawn out off the ball, but it has happened plenty of times to others (eg a casual midriff punch on the way past) and when scrutinised/reported often results in a Suspension and so it should. Who was the Demon or Essendon (?) player who swung around behind himself and clobbered the bloke who was harassing him off the ball? Got weeks for that, was it Houli? How about the Gaff hit?
Do you or any of the others want our blokes to do that? Or only if they can get away with it?
Look what happened when Ricciuto was suspended in 2005 --- there are good reasons to suggest that cost us the Flag, and certainly did not help us to win it.

Meanwhile, back to the thread, apologies ...

 

[CrowBloke]

Yeah, let's go back to being called Choir boys, that worked a treat.

This is not what I said, or intended.
Read the posts and reply to what I said, or try to.

 

[1970crow]

+

+ others....
"Neil Craig's secret account", ah ha HAAA, hilarious, yeah, I am Neil Craig / "horseshit", well-argued.

It looks like I am pretty much alone on this, with derisive name-callers inspired.
All critics have not acknowledged that I've made a clear distinction between toughness on and around the ball --- flatten the bloke with the ball, legally, by all means every chance you get and if that reduces his effectiveness for the rest of the game, even better --- and cheap hits and illegal mongrel acts off the ball.

I want the Crows' opponents to fear them, to not want to play them, to think twice about going for the hard ball because they know they're going to get moonched/tackled/bumped (perceived pressure, hearing footsteps), relentlessly and hard (which is certainly not happening, now). But you gotta be able to move around the ground without some anger-venting mug blindsiding you with an unexpected King-hit which is the act of a coward.
It's not brave or difficult to clobber someone then run away when they're off the ball and (like the Umps) not looking.

When did the "anger-venting mug blindsiding you with an unexpected King-hit which is the act of a coward" happen. Are we still talking about the Smack/Tambo elbows? You're arguing against a completely made up point that nobody is arguing for. Aren't we talking about the illegal blocking/shepherding of Gawn off the ball?

 

[1970crow]

1) and 3) Nope, never said they took Gawn out off the ball, but it has happened plenty of times to others (eg a casual midriff punch on the way past) and when scrutinised/reported often results in a Suspension and so it should. Who was the Demon or Essendon (?) player who swung around behind himself and clobbered the bloke who was harassing him off the ball? Got weeks for that, was it Houli? How about the Gaff hit?
Do you or any of the others want our blokes to do that? Or only if they can get away with it?
Look what happened when Ricciuto was suspended in 2005 --- there are good reasons to suggest that cost us the Flag, and certainly did not help us to win it.

Meanwhile, back to the thread, apologies ...

But we're talking about the issue regarding us and Gawn, nothing else. You're the one bringing in all sorts of other stuff that nobody else is arguing for.

 

[CrowBloke]

Yeah, let's go back to being called Choir boys, that worked a treat.
Its long overdue from this club and I 100% support it.

Et tu, Deaneus! ??
Nah mate, cmon.

 

[CrowBloke]

Aren't we talking about the illegal blocking/shepherding of Gawn off the ball?

No, and maybe you missed the footage Ch9 showed of some Crows harassing Gawn, bumping into his shoulder, up to 80 metres away from the ball. Nothing to do with blocking/shepherding with the ball so far away.
Looked ugly/dirty to me and I still don't like it.
Nobody has convinced me with reasonable argument, without derision, that it's ok. At least you pointed out that the umps are not noticing it, or turning a blind eye, which still does not make it ok.
If they are not going to play hard within the rules, might as well discard the rules, put a cage around the oval and make it a free-for-all. Dirtiest, most violent team wins.

 

[CrowBloke]

It's certainly optimal to hinder the star player of the opposition ability to move if you can do so legally.

Yes, exactly.
Hit hard legally when he has or is going for the ball, yes, flatten him. Shepherd legally, so he can't get past you at a teammate, yes.
What those Crows did to Gawn well off the ball, illegally, was a disgrace.

 

[CrowBloke]

The port flogs down the road hate us because they have massive chips on their shoulder and are still sooking cause we got the license to enter the AFL that they wanted and they instead got a massive b*tch slap from the SANFL and AFL. They’ll never get over it.

That's probably true, but nothing to do with dirty play.
Since you mentioned PA ...
The Crows had a run of wins against PA (Pyke/Hinkley) who tried to rough them up on and off the ball, playing the man etc but it didn't work because the game was won by playing better football, pure and simple.
The last 2 losses to PA have been on the back of their superior run-and-spread and skill level and nothing to do with illegal hits well away from the ball.
It's the best qualities of footy that win games/Flags, not the worst.

 

[Danger_zone]

A Collingwood fan asked whether our tagger Kaeys would be used to tag Sidebottom or Adams. Its was just people responding to a question, not a suggestion that we actively tag

this is most likely related to SuperCoach/AFL fantasy.

 

[Cap]

This is not what I said, or intended.
Read the posts and reply to what I said, or try to.

the club is trying to bring physicality to this team that, for a fair period of time has lacked anything close to it.

The tactics you saw, weather deliberate or otherwise have been used against us for a long time with no repercussion at all, so weather you think it is not in the spirit or a dirty tactic, unless there is a whistle being blown or reports made its play on and about ******* time our players showed some mongrel.

 

[LoBu]

Happy with selections, very happy. Crocker should have been dropped, gives us nothing. Was thinking we're a sneaky chance at odds, going to have a few $ on at good odds then you give me the umpires.

Eleni, she crucified the Swans last week, definitely a Pies barracker, the frees she plucked out for them had me shaking my head plus the obvious ones she ignored for the Swans. Might save my betting money now.

Picking Crocker against Collingwood is a good selection for emotinal reasons, he'll probably kick 2 or 3 to prove himself, and he knows the weaknesses of this team, probably would be playing tonight with their injuries if he was still in their squad.

 

[CrowBloke]

1) the club is trying to bring physicality to this team that, for a fair period of time has lacked anything close to it.
2) The tactics you saw, weather deliberate or otherwise have been used against us for a long time with no repercussion at all, 3) so weather you think it is not in the spirit or a dirty tactic, unless there is a whistle being blown or reports made its play on and 4) about ******* time our players showed some mongrel.

1) read my posts on this subject; I'm all for it, on and around the ball, hard/tough/legally.
2) so, other teams do it off the ball, illegally, why not us? Cmon.
3) it happened so far away from the ball/play it went unnoticed, although as someone pointed out McHenry gave Gawn a bump (around a dead ball, I think) and was pinged for it. Yeah, well done, Ned. As if they needed your help to get possession.
4) Yes, 2017 PF-style mongrel-in-play, not the stuff they dished up to Gawn well away from the ball --- and --- did it help us in any way to win the game or even mitigate the damage? Nuh-uh.

I'm trying to say that if you're playing well enough, you don't need that off-the-ball garbage because you're doing plenty of on-the-ball damage (to oppo players, and to general play). If you're losing because of poor play/personnel, off-the-ball 'unsociablitiy' does not help the team to win.

 

[Cap]

1) read my posts on this subject; I'm all for it, on and around the ball, hard/tough/legally.
2) so, other teams do it off the ball, illegally, why not us? Cmon.
3) it happened so far away from the ball/play it went unnoticed, although as someone pointed out McHenry gave Gawn a bump (around a dead ball, I think) and was pinged for it. Yeah, well done, Ned. As if they needed your help to get possession.
4) Yes, 2017 PF-style mongrel-in-play, not the stuff they dished up to Gawn well away from the ball --- and --- did it help us in any way to win the game or even mitigate the damage? Nuh-uh.

I'm trying to say that if you're playing well enough, you don't need that off-the-ball garbage because you're doing plenty of on-the-ball damage (to oppo players, and to general play). If you're losing because of poor play/personnel, off-the-ball 'unsociablitiy' does not help the team to win.

You maybe right, but as I recall over the last 10 years or so, the top clubs do both because it does help you win.

As for examples, pretty much every game against Hawthorn at their peak in which they generally always beat us.

 

[glengowan]

McHenry's struggling enough as it is without having to worry about doing meaningless crap off the ball to the opposition.

Would've thought the Crows would've learnt their lesson from a couple of years ago when Tex and co absolutely rubbished Gawn after we got an early goal. He went on to be best on ground and we lost.

Stupid, dumb, football.

Especially when you don't back it up - Oliver wouldn't let an exhausted O'Brien get back to the centre bounce. Kept on walking on his toes in front of him while O'Brien was gasping in air. Matt Crouch walked straight past and did absolutely nothing to help his team mate. That is when you step in.

 

[Vader]

You maybe right, but as I recall over the last 10 years or so, the top clubs do both because it does help you win.

As for examples, pretty much every game against Hawthorn at their peak in which they generally always beat us.

Hawthorn didn't beat us because they were unsociable, they beat us because they were better than we were at playing football. End of discussion.

There may be a small advantage to be gained from niggling an opponent and getting them mentally off their game. Maybe... But it's a marginal benefit at best, and unlikely to produce any real benefit unless the opposition is close to parity with the unsociable team.

Being unsociable when you're not even competitive against the 2nd worst team in the competition is not only stupid, it's downright embarrassing.

In Adelaide's case, being unsociable is more likely to create a disadvantage, because the players (most notably McHenry) are distracting themselves more than the opposition players they're trying to niggle. It really is embarrassing.

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