2020 Trade & List Management discussion

kick it to me_

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Everyone is talking about needing a big bodied mid and suggesting to get hately out of GWS. I know he's not an SA lad but I reckon this guy would have more upside..big with pace. Also on record for being frustrated about not getting a game in the AFL.

I think he went around pick 20 in his draft year and the knock was he was fairly raw.

RILEY COLLIER-DAWKINS

Out of contract 2020.

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My sentence " No problems trading out matt if he wants to go "
Eventually you write "You trade out when the player wants to leave and you cant keep him"

Not sure why you were so up in arms, we're in agreement. If Matt want's to go, then we trade him, it's pretty simple. Sure, we can force him to stay until his contract is up the year after. Is that your strategy? Genius if so.
Not the way I read Cleric post at all. Numerous posters on this board are calling for Matt to be traded even though he has a year to run on his contract.

Where exactly has it been mentioned anywhere that Matt wants out before his contract is up?

Cleric's main point the way I read it is that if he only attracts a late 1st round pick in this draft there is absolutely no guarantee the draftee we select with that pick will ever reach the same heights and in all likelihood not be as good in terms of ability, let alone the factor even if they do turn out OK they will more than likely take at least a couple of years to reach the input of Matt currently even though he's down on form..
 
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He was adamant the rebuild was a planned and clear decision.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. The current/late-2019 board would love anything that (theoretically) allows them multiple years leeway before they can be judged.

Whether the team is any good at the end of the "rebuild" is purely incidental.
 
Jun 7, 2011
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Not the way I read Cleric post at all. Numerous posters on this board are calling for Matt to be traded even though he has a year to run on his contract.

Where exactly has it been mentioned anywhere that Matt wants out before his contract is up?

Cleric's main point the way I read it is that if he only attracts a late 1st round pick in this draft there is absolutely no guarantee the draftee we select with that pick will ever reach the same heights and in all likelihood not be as good in terms of ability, let alone the factor even if they do turn out OK they will more than likely take at least a couple of years to reach the input of Matt currently even though he's down on form..

My first post that Cleric responded to - " Tredders saying on AA that a couple of melbourne clubs into Matt Crouch. No problems trading out matt if he wants to go. "

There's lots of moving parts to consider, that's a given and doesn't need to be mentioned with every simple post. But my comment that if he wants to go, I've no problem with him going. Same with Brad for pick 2 if that happened, but as I've posted before, Brad is the one that I'd prefer to build a new midfield around as he's comfortably our best when fit and at the right age. If I had a choice of losing one of the 3, it'd be skip that I hope asks for a trade. I think he's grossly overpaid for the midfielder that he's become. I think with decent fitness again, Matt can return to form, I see Sloane's body packing it in a hurry and circa $800k/year for the next few is far too much. At least if Laird wants out he's building his value again. But now that they've finally played him where he always looked he'd be extremely good, I'd rather keep him too.
 
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My first post that Cleric responded to - " Tredders saying on AA that a couple of melbourne clubs into Matt Crouch. No problems trading out matt if he wants to go. "

There's lots of moving parts to consider, that's a given and doesn't need to be mentioned with every simple post. But my comment that if he wants to go, I've no problem with him going. Same with Brad for pick 2 if that happened, but as I've posted before, Brad is the one that I'd prefer to build a new midfield around as he's comfortably our best when fit and at the right age. If I had a choice of losing one of the 3, it'd be skip that I hope asks for a trade. I think he's grossly overpaid for the midfielder that he's become. I think with decent fitness again, Matt can return to form, I see Sloane's body packing it in a hurry and circa $800k/year for the next few is far too much. At least if Laird wants out he's building his value again. But now that they've finally played him where he always looked he'd be extremely good, I'd rather keep him too.
Laird was pretty good across half back as well, like 2 consecutive AA teams in 17/18. I think too many people underrate the importance of having running backs that work as a springboard for attack...

Look at Bachar Houli and jason Johannisen roles in their teams Preniership years, how Bachar Houli didn't win the Norm Smith in one of those grand finals is a joke.
 

briztoon

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Caldwell hails from the Bendigo District he's not a Melbourne Metro mummy's boy....a lot of his best mates are from the Vic Country team he played most of his footy with or against all through his junior footy so he might even look at Brisbane with Tom Berry one of those. You honestly have no bloody clue where he would be prepared to go to further his football career......My guess would be GWS wouldn't be in a hurry to move him on just yet either so likely give him another 2 year contract. Zac Williams is likely on the move so that will free up cap space.
You’re right, I wouldn’t have a clue where he would be prepared to go. But I am well aware he’s a Vic Country lad, and not tied to Melbourne as such.

I’m also well aware he’s spoken about on every Vic, NSW and QLD teams boards as a trade target, just as much as he’s mentioned here.

It’s ok for me to speculate in a discussion here, if he’d choose Adelaide over another team.

No one on our board got their back up when it was revealed that Zac Williams isn’t keen to move to a QLD club. It was “ah well, let’s move on to the next player to discuss”. And he was regarded as our number 1 target on the Lions board.

Honestly, I’m trying to be polite here and not sh*t on Adelaide in discussions. It’s not my thing to sh*t on clubs. So if I mention I don’t believe player xyz would move to Adelaide, it’s not personal. It’s just an opinion as part of a discussion.

I’ve said exactly the same on our board over the years, when we’ve discussed trade targets. “Why would xyz, an A grade player from abc club, leave their club to sign with the Lions”, when there’s been absolutely no indication of them wanting to leave abc club, other than they haven’t re-signed yet.
 
Oct 8, 2011
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Hey guys :) I come in peace.

Just thought I'd pick your brains as to whether you think Brad Crouch will net you band one compo or not? I may be reading things wrong, but he seems like one that's likely to leave at the end of the year, and there's a lot of talk at the moment of Richmond and Adelaide doing a deal where you guys cover a good portion of Crouch's wage and in return we give you access to a couple of our young blokes for chips (Graham and Coleman-Jones are the two that have been most strongly linked atm).

My confusion with this plan (which comes from a very credible source on our board) is that for you guys to cover Crouch's wage there'd have to be a trade, and I can't see you doing a trade if it means giving up access to pick two.

I don't really know what the going rate for Crouch is likely to be, but I'd assume it would be enough for band one, wouldn't it?
 
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Laird was pretty good across half back as well, like 2 consecutive AA teams in 17/18. I think too many people underrate the importance of having running backs that work as a springboard for attack...

Look at Bachar Houli and jason Johannisen roles in their teams Preniership years, how Bachar Houli didn't win the Norm Smith in one of those grand finals is a joke.

Laird was more an accumulating half back mid, nothing like Johannisen that broke lines and ran long. Houli a bit different as well. Laird was a very good half back, but he's exactly the type of desperado that would be a gun mid, and even though he'd get caught if he ran further than a few metres, he's like my bulldog, blistering over 5 and that's often all you need to find yourself in a damaging position if you've got the options available. And since Brad's jets or confidence in the jets haven't returned, that's what our midfield has lacked since Danger left us.
 
Sep 30, 2014
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Hey guys :) I come in peace.

Just thought I'd pick your brains as to whether you think Brad Crouch will net you band one compo or not? I may be reading things wrong, but he seems like one that's likely to leave at the end of the year, and there's a lot of talk at the moment of Richmond and Adelaide doing a deal where you guys cover a good portion of Crouch's wage and in return we give you access to a couple of our young blokes for chips (Graham and Coleman-Jones are the two that have been most strongly linked atm).

My confusion with this plan (which comes from a very credible source on our board) is that for you guys to cover Crouch's wage there'd have to be a trade, and I can't see you doing a trade if it means giving up access to pick two.

I don't really know what the going rate for Crouch is likely to be, but I'd assume it would be enough for band one, wouldn't it?
I've long been saying that free agency compo creates an arbitrage that can be exploited by the 2 clubs involved, as the compo is created from nothing. In normal trade terms, there's a balance. The debits have to equal the credits. But in this, both teams can work together to create something that wouldn't have existed otherwise.

So I have been of the belief that there would be a secondary deal done with wherever Brad goes to make sure he is paid $750k+ per year, and the club he goes to are compensated otherwise if they feel he's only a $650k player.

Might be that a trade for Graham and CJ is overweight in your favour but still within AFL guidelines. This is where future trading creates a blur.

If looking for salary cap relief, could be in taking Graham off you it takes some cap pressure off. Maybe you have another high earner you want to get rid of, so we do a second trade for that person and we take them. Maybe we also trade Atkins to you and cover half his salary.

There's many ways to skin a tiger. I'm sure something will be worked out.

Now please - make sure you beat Port in a final. Or your dead to us. Well, more dead.


Sorry - that should be Edwards, not Graham. Feel like we might look to get him in as some premiership and leadership experience
 
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Aug 9, 2019
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Laird was more an accumulating half back mid, nothing like Johannisen that broke lines and ran long. Houli a bit different as well. Laird was a very good half back, but he's exactly the type of desperado that would be a gun mid, and even though he'd get caught if he ran further than a few metres, he's like my bulldog, blistering over 5 and that's often all you need to find yourself in a damaging position if you've got the options available. And since Brad's jets or confidence in the jets haven't returned, that's what our midfield has lacked since Danger left us.

That's your opinion fine...
All 3 when played as running backs are metres gained players and Laird put up similar numbers to both in 17/18.
 
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I've long been saying that free agency compo creates an arbitrage that can be exploited by the 2 clubs involved, as the compo is created from nothing. In normal trade terms, there's a balance. The debits have to equal the credits. But in this, both teams can work together to create something that wouldn't have existed otherwise.

So I have been of the belief that there would be a secondary deal done with wherever Brad goes to make sure he is paid $750k+ per year, and the club he goes to are compensated otherwise if they feel he's only a $650k player.

Might be that a trade for Graham and CJ is overweight in your favour but still within AFL guidelines. This is where future trading creates a blur.

If looking for salary cap relief, could be in taking Graham off you it takes some cap pressure off. Maybe you have another high earner you want to get rid of, so we do a second trade for that person and we take them. Maybe we also trade Atkins to you and cover half his salary.

There's many ways to skin a tiger. I'm sure something will be worked out.

Now please - make sure you beat Port in a final. Or your dead to us. Well, more dead.
Yeah it could be that if Crouch isn't looking like getting you pick two, rather than taking pick 20 for him we do a trade and give up a first round pick plus Graham and Coleman-Jones. Something along those lines anyway. Perhaps similar to the Dangerfield deal?

I think the effort against Port with very much our B team midfield (no Cotch, Prestia, Edwards or Nank) has me quite optimistic about beating Port come finals. As you guys have seen first hand, we don't normally let teams beat us twice in one year.

Good luck with the rebuild. Taking the hit now will probably help you long term, so it's not such a bad thing.
 

fortunatecrow

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Whoever the 'scoop' is on Dwayne's show just said that Patty is pushing for Brad at the Cats. Even if they don't cough up band 1 compo, they've got enough collateral for us to get good enough value for an uncontracted Brad.

He might be pushing for it, but Geelong might think Dangerfield is a better footballer than talent spotter after the steer he gave them on JJ
 
Sep 30, 2014
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Yeah it could be that if Crouch isn't looking like getting you pick two, rather than taking pick 20 for him we do a trade and give up a first round pick plus Graham and Coleman-Jones. Something along those lines anyway. Perhaps similar to the Dangerfield deal?

I think the effort against Port with very much our B team midfield (no Cotch, Prestia, Edwards or Nank) has me quite optimistic about beating Port come finals. As you guys have seen first hand, we don't normally let teams beat us twice in one year.

Good luck with the rebuild. Taking the hit now will probably help you long term, so it's not such a bad thing.
A deal will get done to get Crouch to you for free and us pick 2. Its just how it gets done that needs to be worked out. Requires a bit of work. Otherwise, a general trade suits no one.
 

dusty1234!

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Hi everyone, another tiger coming in peace:D. Would you all be happy with the trade deal floated? I see it as a win-win. We get a player on subsidised wage who can help shoudler Cotchin and Edward's midfield load. You guys get a good draft pick and couple of our fringe players who bring a winning culture.
 

Sidthehat

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Hi everyone, another tiger coming in peace:D. Would you all be happy with the trade deal floated? I see it as a win-win. We get a player on subsidised wage who can help shoudler Cotchin and Edward's midfield load. You guys get a good draft pick and couple of our fringe players who bring a winning culture.
does this culture involve :thumbsu:s up :poo:?
 
Sep 30, 2014
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Hi everyone, another tiger coming in peace:D. Would you all be happy with the trade deal floated? I see it as a win-win. We get a player on subsidised wage who can help shoudler Cotchin and Edward's midfield load. You guys get a good draft pick and couple of our fringe players who bring a winning culture.
No. Well just do a deal with Geelong to get Brad over there on enough coin for pick 2 while Geelong get Brad for free.
 

morris086

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Hey guys :) I come in peace.

Just thought I'd pick your brains as to whether you think Brad Crouch will net you band one compo or not? I may be reading things wrong, but he seems like one that's likely to leave at the end of the year, and there's a lot of talk at the moment of Richmond and Adelaide doing a deal where you guys cover a good portion of Crouch's wage and in return we give you access to a couple of our young blokes for chips (Graham and Coleman-Jones are the two that have been most strongly linked atm).

My confusion with this plan (which comes from a very credible source on our board) is that for you guys to cover Crouch's wage there'd have to be a trade, and I can't see you doing a trade if it means giving up access to pick two.

I don't really know what the going rate for Crouch is likely to be, but I'd assume it would be enough for band one, wouldn't it?

Brad Crouch is uncontracted at seasons end making him a free agent. For the Crows to be covering any of his contract at another club next year we would need to re sign him and then trade. If clubs were able to pay part of a leaving free agents salary the compensation would be affected and it would further compromise the draft. The AFL is incompetent but they at least foresaw that loophole.

We could trade Matt who has a year to go on his contract and pay part of his salary for next year, but not Brad.
 
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That's your opinion fine...
All 3 when played as running backs are metres gained players and Laird put up similar numbers to both in 17/18.

And he was droppable in that role this year and average at best last year. Do you have an issue with Laird gunning it up in the midfield? You seem to be arguing that he should have stayed at half back. I'd rather him in the midfield and Milera return to the back half where he looked like he could head towards AA squad rather than him failing as a mid and being even worse when at half forward. Plus, unlike back then, we've also got Sholl and Hamill who look the goods when it comes to rebounding, plus McPerson who uses very well delivering towards goals and Doedee the equivalent of Lever in terms of rebound. I'm not sure why you're so focussed on Laird remaining at half back.
 
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And he was droppable in that role this year and average at best last year. Do you have an issue with Laird gunning it up in the midfield? You seem to be arguing that he should have stayed at half back. I'd rather him in the midfield and Milera return to the back half where he looked like he could head towards AA squad rather than him failing as a mid and being even worse when at half forward. Plus, unlike back then, we've also got Sholl and Hamill who look the goods when it comes to rebounding, plus McPerson who uses very well delivering towards goals and Doedee the equivalent of Lever in terms of rebound. I'm not sure why you're so focussed on Laird remaining at half back.
Jesus I'd love to have your ability/imagination to read things into people's posts, all I was saying he had 2 yes 2 season's where he was also played AA worthy across half back. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

earlsta

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Hi everyone, another tiger coming in peace:D. Would you all be happy with the trade deal floated? I see it as a win-win. We get a player on subsidised wage who can help shoudler Cotchin and Edward's midfield load. You guys get a good draft pick and couple of our fringe players who bring a winning culture.
No
 
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And he was droppable in that role this year and average at best last year. Do you have an issue with Laird gunning it up in the midfield? You seem to be arguing that he should have stayed at half back. I'd rather him in the midfield and Milera return to the back half where he looked like he could head towards AA squad rather than him failing as a mid and being even worse when at half forward. Plus, unlike back then, we've also got Sholl and Hamill who look the goods when it comes to rebounding, plus McPerson who uses very well delivering towards goals and Doedee the equivalent of Lever in terms of rebound. I'm not sure why you're so focussed on Laird remaining at half back.
You’ve summarised beautifully that Laird is incapable since 6/6/6 and needs to be on a midfield line where his defensive action is better suited than being exposed for height. He was an AA in plus one times. Less so when he got cramped up.
 
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