List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[I AM CARLTON]

Simpson, Kruezer and Murphy to be moved on.
Would offer SPS as trade if someone was keen.

 

[Sheephead]

I’d be inclined to go back to the GWS well. Not for Williams, as word is he will stay, along with Cameron. They have a small forward who’s not getting a run, Ian Hill. Bobby would be sensational in our forward line and he can also play midfield. GWS don’t have a first this year, they’ll also need to shed salary, maybe we could also snag a 2nd player like Isaac Cumming, a quick rebounding HB.

 

[CaressMyBlues]

We should go after Fyfe. Next years 4th rounder and Jed Lamb should go close to getting it done

Throw in Polson and have a half eaten bag of chips and call it a day.

Big yes from me for Alex Pearce only 25 and his best is AA material
I'd happily give up sps for him
Also use Marchbank in a trade to get Papley
McLean on the cheap would be handy
Williams as a free agent

In: Pearce,papley,Williams,McLean
Out: Sps, Marchbank draft picks

Swans would want top 10 pick as well for Papley, seems a little too steep but draft this year will be heavily compromised due to academy picks etc. Only downside would be if we don't jump the gun on Papley other clubs like Saints etc be circling like wolves and they'll certainly throw all they can at Papley.

Due to the Covid-19 situation in Melbourne at the moment, Papley would probably be even more keen to get home to Victoria.

Would hate to see SPS leave, they'll throw him in the midfield and he'll tear things up, would be classic Carlton. Really wish the club would at least try him again in the midfield, SPS isn't a defender and he never will be.

Agree on Williams, would love for him to play for us, can play as half-back flanker and midfield, perfect fit for us and perfect replacement for Simpson.

I’d be inclined to go back to the GWS well. Not for Williams, as word is he will stay, along with Cameron. They have a small forward who’s not getting a run, Ian Hill. Bobby would be sensational in our forward line and he can also play midfield. GWS don’t have a first this year, they’ll also need to shed salary, maybe we could also snag a 2nd player like Isaac Cumming, a quick rebounding HB.

Surely they can't keep Kelly as well as Cameron?

 

[Team DJ]

Is this thread serious about Pearce? Could not be further from a position of need. How about we focus on a top line mid and a small forward rather then a surplus spot. And a position on the ground that is probably the easiest to fill.

 

[Sheephead]

Pearce is a good footballer, but like Marchbank, he doesn’t get on the park. Pass for me.
There was an article on the club site that suggested we had moved on from Papley. Too expensive now anyway.
As above, Williams. will stay in GWS.

 

[Gethelred]

It's pretty ****ing simple.

Look at someone else's KPF that isn't getting a gig; someone who struggles when dictating the play, but has the correct physical attributes to do it. Get them cheap, then remake them as a KPD. It's happened shitloads of times at the top level. It's easier to go from the front end of the ground to defense, and to be a decent KPD you need a read of the ball in the air and a bit of contest smarts; essentially, exactly what you need to be a KPF.

Pearce is a good player, but let's be frank. While we have both Casboult and Jones functioning, we have time on our side as far as KPD goes. Let's look at areas of actual need rather than spending a first round pick on a position we don't immediately need improvement from.

 

[Arr0w]

Is this thread serious about Pearce? Could not be further from a position of need. How about we focus on a top line mid and a small forward rather then a surplus spot. And a position on the ground that is probably the easiest to fill.

A KPD is absolutely a position of need, unless the likes of Macreadie stays healthy or Ben really comes on. Levi 31 next year ( some suggesting we should trade him staggeringly), is still our most durable forward

Weitering and Jones, if one of these guys go down, we are in serious trouble

 

[Arr0w]

It's pretty ******* simple.

Look at someone else's KPF that isn't getting a gig; someone who struggles when dictating the play, but has the correct physical attributes to do it. Get them cheap, then remake them as a KPD. It's happened shitloads of times at the top level. It's easier to go from the front end of the ground to defense, and to be a decent KPD you need a read of the ball in the air and a bit of contest smarts; essentially, exactly what you need to be a KPF.

Pearce is a good player, but let's be frank. While we have both Casboult and Jones functioning, we have time on our side as far as KPD goes. Let's look at areas of actual need rather than spending a first round pick on a position we don't immediately need improvement from.

We don't need to spend a first rounder to get a suitable replacement, unless of course it's Grainger-Baras

 

[Team DJ]

A KPD is absolutely a position of need, unless the likes of Macreadie stays healthy or Ben really comes on. Levi 31 next year ( some suggesting we should trade him staggeringly), is still our most durable forward

Weitering and Jones, if one of these guys go down, we are in serious trouble

Then you find a Hugh Goddard or the like on the scrap heap.
The price on the likes of Pearces head should only be spent on match winners.

Outside of the 22 now we have 5 players who are playing or could play KPD in the 2s.

Caleb Ben Hugh McCread and Fin.

Even if 2 of them aren't on the list next year we'll still have 3 that are in their 3rd year or more of AFL.

KPD is the easiest position to fill.

 

[Gethelred]

A KPD is absolutely a position of need, unless the likes of Macreadie stays healthy or Ben really comes on. Levi 31 next year ( some suggesting we should trade him staggeringly), is still our most durable forward

Weitering and Jones, if one of these guys go down, we are in serious trouble

Macreadie's issue - aside from injury - is that he needs affirmation. Being forced to play him in the ones could be the best thing to happen to him; tell him his time is now, that he's got a very simple set of guidelines, don't bite off more than he can chew, and you think he's got it.

If Weitering and Jones go down, we're not as good against the Dixons of the world, but there's only really 2-4 power forwards in the comp: one of the King bros (who, to this point, have been more leadup targets than power forwards), Dixon, Kennedy, Lynch. I'm going to put it this way; Levi goes back and sits on them, Plow or Marchbank takes the second, and Doch/Marchbank sits in the gap as a +1.

You can simulate the effects of a KPD across 2-3 players without actually having one, without losing the effectiveness of those positions. I maintain that this kind of thing leads to innovation, because coaches - all of them - are conservative and extremely resistant to change.

We don't need to spend a first rounder to get a suitable replacement, unless of course it's Grainger-Baras

Given the direction of the conversation was Alex Pearce, what would you pay for him?

 

[Team DJ]

When he says spend, he means on a trade.

Even so, never draft a KPD in the top 20 (weitering yes i know) because again they grow on trees. Get match winners in the top 20

We don't need to spend a first rounder to get a suitable replacement, unless of course it's Grainger-Baras

 

[bigm386]

Trading Casboult would be stupid for a number of reasons. Firstly he bleeds blue and seems to be a locker room favourite.

He is durable and can play forward, ruck and defence.

You just don't find that utility easily. Even if he wasn't in best 22 which he clearly is at the moment would be worth keeping on the list as insurance at a minimum.

Would rather trade McGovern out of our key forwards. But doubt anyone would swallow that contract.

 

[Arr0w]

Then you find a Hugh Goddard or the like on the scrap heap.
The price on the likes of Pearces head should only be spent on match winners.

Outside of the 22 now we have 5 players who are playing or could play KPD in the 2s.

Caleb Ben Hugh McCread and Fin.

Even if 2 of them aren't on the list next year we'll still have 3 that are in their 3rd year or more of AFL.

KPD is the easiest position to fill.

Get it through your head, Marchbank will NEVER be a KPD, Goddard is not up to it, Macreadie and Ben I have touched on. Finbar? Please

Not suggesting it should be Pearce that we target, but it still is very much a area of weakness compare to another types

 

[Arr0w]

Macreadie's issue - aside from injury - is that he needs affirmation. Being forced to play him in the ones could be the best thing to happen to him; tell him his time is now, that he's got a very simple set of guidelines, don't bite off more than he can chew, and you think he's got it.

If Weitering and Jones go down, we're not as good against the Dixons of the world, but there's only really 2-4 power forwards in the comp: one of the King bros (who, to this point, have been more leadup targets than power forwards), Dixon, Kennedy, Lynch. I'm going to put it this way; Levi goes back and sits on them, Plow or Marchbank takes the second, and Doch/Marchbank sits in the gap as a +1.

You can simulate the effects of a KPD across 2-3 players without actually having one, without losing the effectiveness of those positions. I maintain that this kind of thing leads to innovation, because coaches - all of them - are conservative and extremely resistant to change.

Given the direction of the conversation was Alex Pearce, what would you pay for him?

Pearce is a massive talent, but given the injuries I wouldn't cough up more than a mid 2nd and that probably doesn't get it done

 

[Arr0w]

When he says spend, he means on a trade.

Even so, never draft a KPD in the top 20 (weitering yes i know) because again they grow on trees. Get match winners in the top 20

Then you have no idea

If the right KPP is there in the top 20, you take him, especially a Grainger-Baras

But, not talking about a draftee at this point, talking about someone already in the system that is undervalued

 

[Team DJ]

Small forward, inside mid, outside mid, ruck depth, small defender. Then maybe KPD depth is a need more so then KPF depth. Maybe.

But its batting 6th or 7th in the order of needs for this FC at best.

You don't spend prized possessions on what will be a depth piece.

Having Marchbank McCreadie BSos and Goddard is more than enough to cover an injury.

There aren't too many monster forwards any more

Get it through your head, Marchbank will NEVER be a KPD, Goddard is not up to it, Macreadie and Ben I have touched on. Finbar? Please

Not suggesting it should be Pearce that we target, but it still is very much a area of weakness compare to another types

 

[Eiffel 65]

Is this thread serious about Pearce? Could not be further from a position of need. How about we focus on a top line mid and a small forward rather then a surplus spot. And a position on the ground that is probably the easiest to fill.

Yes, dead serious.

We currently have Jones (turns 30 before the start of next season) and Weitering, but who's behind them?

Question marks on Goddard and BSOS. Marchbank and Plowman are not KPP's. That leaves Macreadie, who has been really hard to track from a development perspective.

Jones can play 3rd tall due to his athleticism. Acquiring Pearce would lock in both CHB and FB for the next 8 years. Would be the final piece of our spine in place.

A top line midfielder should be high on our wish list too, however, a small forward can wait another season. Not as important as many on here think. Our smaller types up forward haven't had any issues scoring this season when our ball movement has been up to standard.

 

[Arr0w]

Small forward, inside mid, outside mid, ruck depth, small defender. Then maybe KPD depth is a need more so then KPF depth. Maybe.

But its batting 6th or 7th in the order of needs for this FC at best.

You don't spend prized possessions on what will be a depth piece.

Having Marchbank McCreadie BSos and Goddard is more than enough to cover an injury.

There aren't too many monster forwards any more

Aren't monster forwards? All of them continue to get taller, quicker, bigger

Ruck I agree, running half back too

We don't need inside mids, Stocker and Kemp will sort that. Plenty of outside mid finishers around

Lastly, I will pay your membership for life if Marchbank becomes a KPD

 

[Team DJ]

Go through the AFL and tell me how many best 22 KPDs, or players that are 192cm+ that play in the back half were drafted in the Top 20 or paid a premium for via trade.

Then compare that to those who were drafted 30+, transformed forwards or bargain bin trades/FA pick ups.

It isn't a necessity to do so. Especially for a team that has that spot locked in, with some adequate depth pieces if worst comes to worse

 

[Eiffel 65]

When he says spend, he means on a trade.

Even so, never draft a KPD in the top 20 (weitering yes i know) because again they grow on trees. Get match winners in the top 20

I was of this opinion many years ago, but time spent reviewing draft classes and re-ranking talent based on time in the system says that way of thinking is not the right way.

In 2015, Callum Ah Chee was the match winner you speak of and taken at pick 8 in the 2015 draft. Who would you rather on your list right now, Weitering or Callum Ah Chee?

And lets say comparing pick 1 to pick 8 is unfair. Ok, fine. Lets compare Josh Schache as the match winning KPF with Weitering. Who would you rather on your list now, Weitering or Schache?

Bottom line, you take the best talent available to you at your selection.

Players like Alex Rance, Jeremy McGovern and Darcy Moore are worth their weight in gold. You just have to go back to the good old days a decade ago when we consistently had KPF's kicking bags of 6-8 goals on us to realise this.

 

[Team DJ]

Hang on, why are we talking Callum Ah Chee? Is Clayton Oliver not a match winner and potential all Australian? Then you have Alex Keath in the rookie draft who the dogs just sold the farm for.


This is not to say I don't love weitering, I do. But he is more so the exception then the rule.


And umm. Moore and McGovern are my case and point. Forwards that got flipped. And in McGoverns case a late late draft pick.

I was of this opinion many years ago, but time spent reviewing draft classes and re-ranking talent based on time in the system says that way of thinking is not the right way.

In 2015, Callum Ah Chee was the match winner you speak of and taken at pick 8 in the 2015 draft. Who would you rather on your list right now, Weitering or Callum Ah Chee?

And lets say comparing pick 1 to pick 8 is unfair. Ok, fine. Lets compare Josh Schache as the match winning KPF with Weitering. Who would you rather on your list now, Weitering or Schache?

Bottom line, you take the best talent available to you at your selection.

Players like Alex Rance, Jeremy McGovern and Darcy Moore are worth their weight in gold. You just have to go back to the good old days a decade ago when we consistently had KPF's kicking bags of 6-8 goals on us to realise this.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Small forward, inside mid, outside mid, ruck depth, small defender. Then maybe KPD depth is a need more so then KPF depth. Maybe.

But its batting 6th or 7th in the order of needs for this FC at best.

You don't spend prized possessions on what will be a depth piece.

Having Marchbank McCreadie BSos and Goddard is more than enough to cover an injury.

There aren't too many monster forwards any more

Small forwards: Fisher just kicked 4 goals on the weekend after only recently commencing his training in the position. Owies has been kicking bags every week in the reserves too.

Midfielders: Yes, we need one balanced midfielder, but O'brien will fill the void on the outside, with Dow, Stocker and Kemp playing on the inside. That's more than enough.

Rucks: Hopefully TDK will be 1st ruck next season. Pittonet is durable, so our backup is covered.

Small defender: Yes, we need another one of those. No arguments there.

KPD: We either need to draft one now as they take a good 4 years to develop, or potentially find a mature age one in 2-3 years. Should a long term player be on offer now, we should be taking a close look.

Bottom line, a KPD isn't as low on our list of needs as what some think.

 

[Team DJ]

And I can do exactly what you have done but in reverse.

Tell you why there are a number of question marks around the players you have just listed, and therefore it is a need to re tool with some high end talent there.

Then go to the KPD stocks and list blokes who are developing nicely and in the 2 - 3 year time when they'll be required best 22 players have 5+ years worth of seasoning and development under their belts.

Small forwards: Fisher just kicked 4 goals on the weekend after only recently commencing his training in the position. Owies has been kicking bags every week in the reserves too.

Midfielders: Yes, we need one balanced midfielder, but O'brien will fill the void on the outside, with Dow, Stocker and Kemp playing on the inside. That's more than enough.

Rucks: Hopefully TDK will be 1st ruck next season. Pittonet is durable, so our backup is covered.

Small defender: Yes, we need another one of those. No arguments there.

KPD: We either need to draft one now as they take a good 4 years to develop, or potentially find a mature age one in 2-3 years. Should a long term player be on offer now, we should be taking a close look.

Bottom line, a KPD isn't as low on our list of needs as what some think.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Hang on, why are we talking Callum Ah Chee? Is Clayton Oliver not a match winner and potential all Australian? Then you have Alex Keath in the rookie draft who the dogs just sold the farm for.


This is not to say I don't love weitering, I do. But he is more so the exception then the rule.


And umm. Moore and McGovern are my case and point. Forwards that got flipped. And in McGoverns case a late late draft pick.

I view match winners as low possession, high impact players who hit the scoreboard. Oliver is more the consistent player that keeps you in games.

Even so, it's much harder to find high quality KPP's than midfielders. You need to take them when they're available.

 

[bigm386]

We desperately need to add one or two Ruckman to our list.

We have TDK and Pittonet at the moment. TDK can play forward and ruck. Pittonet is a battler but maybe not a long term number 1 ruck.

Really need to pick one and develop him and have another project Ruckman on the list. Unless we snag someone like Callum Coleman-Jones from Richmond.