Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion v the Saints round 13 @ Gabba.

[luthor]

- Lester out
Why?

Truly puzzling.

He was clearly one of our best today, has been consistent and reliable all season and rarely makes a mistake.

Yet he is invariably named by some here as the first "out" for the changes for the next game.

Weird

 

[pulpdriver]

Truly puzzling.

He was clearly one of our best today, has been consistent and reliable all season and rarely makes a mistake.

Yet he is invariably named by some here as the first "out" for the changes for the next game.

Weird

He's an easy scapegoat but he was just about our best in the fourth quarter. The commentary asked who could intercept if not Harris in the second and it was like Froggy answered. He's 22, leave him alone.

 

[StevoJenkins]

- Lester out
Why?

Truly puzzling.

He was clearly one of our best today, has been consistent and reliable all season and rarely makes a mistake.

Yet he is invariably named by some here as the first "out" for the changes for the next game.

Weird

He's an easy scapegoat but he was just about our best in the fourth quarter. The commentary asked who could intercept if not Harris in the second and it was like Froggy answered. He's 22, leave him alone.

Not taking Lester out because I think he’s bad or anything, but when I look at what stumped the Saints in their last game it was ball control. The Cats used the ball better than they did through good ball users (granted we do it more from the back half). We did something similar against the Dogs at times, so I went with the backline we played that game.

Actually wait for me to reply before shotgunning the whole “He dON lIKe LEstER” crap. I’ve defended him in the past, didn’t drop him because he’s a scapegoat, wait for a reply before assuming something of someone.

 

[luthor]

Not taking Lester out because I think he’s bad or anything, but when I look at what stumped the Saints in their last game it was ball control. The Cats used the ball better than they did through good ball users (granted we do it more from the back half). We did something similar against the Dogs at times, so I went with the backline we played that game.

Actually wait for me to reply before shotgunning the whole “He dON lIKe LEstER” crap. I’ve defended him in the past, didn’t drop him because he’s a scapegoat, wait for a reply before assuming something of someone.

Are you arguing that Lester is not a good ball user?

 

[StevoJenkins]

Are you arguing that Lester is not a good ball user?

Never an argument I made, but I think Witho, Rich and Birchall are all better users of the ball (This goes without saying) and I’d like to see them in the same backline again.

 

[Ironmonger]

Not taking Lester out because I think he’s bad or anything, but when I look at what stumped the Saints in their last game it was ball control. The Cats used the ball better than they did through good ball users (granted we do it more from the back half). We did something similar against the Dogs at times, so I went with the backline we played that game.

Actually wait for me to reply before shotgunning the whole “He dON lIKe LEstER” crap. I’ve defended him in the past, didn’t drop him because he’s a scapegoat, wait for a reply before assuming something of someone.

Wouldn't you drop Gardiner first in that case? I don't think he's providing anything more defensively than Lester.

 

[fugitive]

We just looked so ordinary today across the board except Andrews who got better in the second half, Zorko made a couple blunders in our back/forward halves trying to hack the ball mid air. David king was bagging us all day on Fox footy, what a douche but then again we didn’t look like a 2nd placed team. Geez had that second last shot from Zurhaar gone thru we would have been toast after the siren!

Charlie was hobbling from the get go, how can he be right? I’m just hoping that this was just a blip and the boys will Really lift against the Saints on the home turf.

 

[jackess]

We just looked so ordinary today across the board except Andrews who got better in the second half, Zorko made a couple blunders in our back/forward halves trying to hack the ball mid air. David king was bagging us all day on Fox footy, what a douche but then again we didn’t look like a 2nd placed team. Geez had that second last shot from Zurhaar gone thru we would have been toast after the siren!

Charlie was hobbling from the get go, how can he be right? I’m just hoping that this was just a blip and the boys will Really lift against the Saints on the home turf.

hard not to hobble with that much tape on his leg.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Wouldn't you drop Gardiner first in that case? I don't think he's providing anything more defensively than Lester.

Gardiner has the ability to play on smalls and talls and keep them under wraps. Lester roams more around the back half than he does from what I’ve noticed.

 

[martinson]

We have two obvious ins in Rich and Rayner . Plus 3 or 4 players with question marks over their fitness/tiredness/soreness/whatever. So there might only be one omitted at the end of the day and that will get down to team balance /match ups against the Saints who are different to North.

 

[Tom14]

Out: Ah Chee, Eagles, Witherden

In: Rayner, Rich, Skinner

Harsh on Witho but someone needs to come out for Rich and we can't have both him and birchall in the team. I trust Birch's kicking quite a bit more.

Eagles offers nothing and is playing less than 45% game time. Skinner won't be great in the ruck but might offer more round the ground.

 

[DanT7]

Robinson out for Rich (Starcevich to wing, Rich back). Robbo clearly needs a rest.

Matheson out for Rayner.

AhChee out for Coleman.

Among other events, Cameron grabbed at his knee after a left foot kick. Don’t think he was right. Cox gets a go.

 

[irel]

On TV it looked like Answerth had the job on Mason Wood. He did a a great job. He will be needed to do the same job on Dan Cutler next week.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Berry - Eagles - Ah Chee

Rich - Skinner - Rayner

McStay to help Big O in the ruck.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Can't comprehend why there is talk here of Witherden being dropped. He was more than serviceable. 19 disposals and 423 metres gained. Took a strong contested mark and laid a saving tackle in the last. Not even close to being dropped.

 

[Dylan12]

Berry - Eagles - Ah Chee

Rich - Skinner - Rayner

McStay to help Big O in the ruck.

Martin’s absence has highlighted how little we have in the closet outside of him and McInerney. Smith whilst injured offered next to nothing, Ballenden and Skinner not much better and whilst keen to see how Eagles went highlighted he is definitely not the answer. Whilst Eagles story is heartwarming, the experiment is over. That being said, unless we go for McInerney by himself and McStay rucking in the forward 50, IMO, Ballenden is our only option.

In - Rich, Rayner, Cox
Out - Ah Chee, Eagles, Robinson

 

[Flyin Lion]

Rayner, Rich, Skinner
Mathieson, Ah Chee, Eagles
All like for like
Rayner and Rich obvious, Skinner although nervous and young had 13 marks and 17 possessions in his 2 games. Is more aggressive than Ballenden and better around the ground, checking his stats he also did 12.1km against Richmond.
Give him games and he will improve Quickest.
Will also help decide wether to delist or keep.



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[bungalow_bill]

Can't comprehend why there is talk here of Witherden being dropped. He was more than serviceable. 19 disposals and 423 metres gained. Took a strong contested mark and laid a saving tackle in the last. Not even close to being dropped.

Fourth highest disposals also 4 marks / 3 tackles. Witherden had a good game won't be dropped.

 

[Ralphy2017]

I know that Fagan will never make so many changes especially after a win and before a bye. But I would like to see:
Charlie rested for Rayner (or Coleman)
Eagles omitted for Ballenden/Skinner (or even better a mid)
Witherden/Birchall omitted for Rich
Lester omitted for Payne (rough but structure needs to change)
Robbo/Berry/McCluggage one of them rested for Dev or Ely Smith

Agree with all of the above and yes Fages won't make the changes, as the team is not due to play Saints until next week, and then the bye. I would not be risking RAYNOR, as the bye follows the saints game. Just be cautious with the hammy and give it two extra weeks as we head into more condensed fixtures. I know very little, but called for Charlie not to risk himself today. Wonder who made the call and if the race for the Coleman was a factor (in Charlie declaring himself fit).
Birchall won't get dropped or even 'managed'. I think he got one contested possession but 14 non contested and was named one of the best. Not sure we can play 3 slow mid size backs (Birchall, Witho, Lester) against the saints. Also probably need to be taller in defence against the saints.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Out: Mathieson, Eagles, Answerth
In: Rayner, Skinner, Rich



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This is 100% how I would go too. Also, anyone suggesting Lester gets dropped after his game really doesn’t understand football. In a side that struggled to be physically committed today, he was AWESOME. Witherden stood up too when it counted. Of the key defenders it’s Gardiner who is in the worst form.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Can't comprehend why there is talk here of Witherden being dropped. He was more than serviceable. 19 disposals and 423 metres gained. Took a strong contested mark and laid a saving tackle in the last. Not even close to being dropped.

Not sure when Alex went from being a favourite of this board to a whipping boy, but it seems to have happened over the past few months. It probably was that moment in the GWS final, which doesn't feel entirely fair as I don't think any of our back six could have caught Daniels in that moment, but maybe people needed a scapegoat for losing that final and he seemed an easy target.

I didn't have Witho in my top 5 today, but he would've been 6th or 7th on that list. If you're picking a team most capable of being great, you'd have him in it every time I think. Probably Noah too. Which is why I have questions about Lester.

I feel bad for suggesting Lester gets dropped, just because he doesn't really deserve it at all. He works harder than just about anybody, has a bunch of good moments (notably a few really good marks in the 4th today), and is as good a team player as you'll find.

I just can't help but feel that our back six does not look quite right when he's down there. He's good in a lot of areas of his game, but I don't think he has a standout or even great feature. I still wouldn't back him in to win a one on one contest with complete confidence yet, I think his disposal is probably the weakest of the defenders we have played this year bar Payne (even below Gardiner's, who has taken significant strides in that area in recent years), and on top of that he's not particularly quick either in a backline already struggling for pace.

Lester is a great clubman and somebody I hope we hold onto for years to come as great depth (if Gardiner went down, it would be an absolute godsend to have him there), but I'm just not sure he fits in our best 22 at the moment. Witho and Birchall are significantly better kicks than him, so is Rich who is also a better one on one defender. Starcevich and Answerth are better ball users and also have more pace, and Darcy and Harris have many more runs on the board shutting down gun key forwards. I know he brings intent, attitude, and maturity out there, and he does generally have a couple of very good moments each game in defence, but I just think we look slower and less dynamic back there when he's playing.

He might hold his spot this week and for a few more games to come, but long term I just can't see how he will be able to stay in our best team. I have a lot of affection for him though and would love to be proven wrong.

So with all that said, I'd be going:

Out: Lester, Mathieson
In: Rich, Rayner

Eagles for Skinner would be the other possibility, although I'd probably give Matt one more chance against St Kilda. He's winning a heap of the taps in ruck contests, he's just not getting it to the right areas yet - but regardless, it feels like something I'm not quite sure Skinner or Ballenden could be contributing yet.

 

[bato]

I'm really not sure I like Mathieson in the side. Cannot count how many times he'd get into good positions but then backtrack and handball backwards.

I think the changes will be minimal.

I think Ah Chee stays in because we need some speed against those quick Saints mids and Butler. Noah Answerth v Butler should be a cracker.

I'd go:

Mathieson OUT Rayner IN
Witherden OUT Rich IN.

I don't think Fages would be impressed with some of Witho's efforts. His overall pressure game is still severely lacking even if he racks up "pressure acts". Too slow.

 

[pulpdriver]

I'm really not sure I like Mathieson in the side. Cannot count how many times he'd get into good positions but then backtrack and handball backwards.

I think the changes will be minimal.

I think Ah Chee stays in because we need some speed against those quick Saints mids and Butler. Noah Answerth v Butler should be a cracker.

I'd go:

Mathieson OUT Rayner IN
Witherden OUT Rich IN.

I don't think Fages would be impressed with some of Witho's efforts. His overall pressure game is still severely lacking even if he racks up "pressure acts". Too slow.

Why Witherden?

Even taking into account him being slow and his defensive efforts supposedly not there, I'm still confused.

 

[bato]

Why Witherden?

I've watched St Kilda play all year long and safe to say their forward line is going to put all of our defenders under serious pressure. Whilst I seriously rate his kicking and decision making under no pressure, it's the pressured kicks that haven't come off or gone to the wrong part of the ground that have me worried. His disposals under pressure have been average the past two games.

I think he'll be forced to do more defending against a very good St Kilda forward line. His pace worries me if he's forced to match up on a quicker player.

 

[pulpdriver]

I've watched St Kilda play all year long and safe to say their forward line is going to put all of our defenders under serious pressure. Whilst I seriously rate his kicking and decision making under no pressure, it's the pressured kicks that haven't come off or gone to the wrong part of the ground that have me worried. His disposals under pressure have been average the past two games.

I think he'll be forced to do more defending against a very good St Kilda forward line. His pace worries me if he's forced to match up on a quicker player.

Agree, but Butler is only the one I'm worrying about in terms of match ups. Answerth to make his life miserable and Rich to go about his business. Will say that i'm actually impressed with what Witherden has shown this year, defensively and pushing forward. Far from perfect but I do wonder if the Witho before the breaks would work so hard in the 50s. Long way to go but I like it.