Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 3

[Gralin]

This is part Three.

Part One can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. (Thread part 1 - cont in part 2, link in thread)

This is part 1 of this thread. Continued in Part 2: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed-part-2.1237935/

www.bigfooty.com

Part Two can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/pages/covid-stats-australia/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 4 can be found here:

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

This is part Four. Part One can be found here - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed.1236651/unread Part Two can be found here -...

www.bigfooty.com

Australian stats page:

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[pablo668]

So what is a deficit in fact?
Watch how your footy club handles the next couple of years.

This is a bit of a non-sequitur.
Govt debt is not like the debt everyone else incurs.

Now if you're saying that Freo is in debt, and that a contraction in people going to their games and buying memberships happens, say with a broader drop in receipts for the AFL hence a smaller handout from them, then yeah, they'd be in the poop.
Not sure how that relates though.

Most of the times Govts just have to service their debts, pay a bit off consistently. Worse comes to worst they just start printing money and they cop a ratings drop from one of the ratings agencies.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Governments print money, there's no vault, big or small.

People need to stop thinking about government budgets in the same way they think about their personal budget.

If they are doing that , then you'll need to service your debt with other people's money.
Good luck buying Euro's with your monopoly money.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This is a bit of a non-sequitur.
Govt debt is not like the debt everyone else incurs.

Now if you're saying that Freo is in debt, and that a contraction in people going to their games and buying memberships happens, say with a broader drop in receipts for the AFL hence a smaller handout from them, then yeah, they'd be in the poop.
Not sure how that relates though.

Most of the times Govts just have to service their debts, pay a bit off consistently. Worse comes to worst they just start printing money and they cop a ratings drop from one of the ratings agencies.

Wow i wonder why those poor African Nations don't just print more. :/

 

[pablo668]

Wow i wonder why those poor African Nations don't just print more. :/

Do I actually need to answer that? And go into a lengthy discourse on the history of post-colonial Africa?
We've been pretty lucky being stable for so long, and we have strong friends, so what I previously mentioned will work for us, to a point.
So you're not wrong in this case.
I do think the Aus economy is waaayyy too focused on Commodities and service to those industries, and we make sweet F all. So kind of hovering just outside Banana Republic territory.

I should stop, I am not a student of economics tbh, so I'm getting in over my head.

 

[kranky al]

The idea is that the billions they don't have now is borrowed from the future. That's how all governments around the world operate (unless you're Norway or Singapore). It's not really controversial economic theory here.

Yes, it will have to be recouped through higher taxation and reduced spending but that's again uncontroversial economic theory.

That also ignores quantitative easing which can be a really bad thing if you are the only one doing it - but when everyone is doing it.....

 

[Kwality]

This is a bit of a non-sequitur.
Govt debt is not like the debt everyone else incurs.

Now if you're saying that Freo is in debt, and that a contraction in people going to their games and buying memberships happens, say with a broader drop in receipts for the AFL hence a smaller handout from them, then yeah, they'd be in the poop.
Not sure how that relates though.

Most of the times Govts just have to service their debts, pay a bit off consistently. Worse comes to worst they just start printing money and they cop a ratings drop from one of the ratings agencies.

Then there is the value of the dollar, the Pacific pesos !!

The footy example was to focus the mind.

 

[JackOutback]

If they are doing that , then you'll need to service your debt with other people's money.
Good luck buying Euro's with your monopoly money.

No one's suggesting you just print it like Zimbabwe, but the fact that governments do print money is exactly why you can't think of debt in the same way as your credit card. When the majority of countries are in debt, engaged in quantitative easing, lowering interest rates etc, the same rules don't apply. And unlike a household, growing an economy, even as simply as growing population, leads to a bigger tax base and more money for governments. When debt is used to create nation-building infrastructure, it can end up paying itself off.

 

[kranky al]

What I'm saying is, based on the recent recurrence on New Zealand and based on the WHO's opinion that the world will never eradicate the virus (regardless of a vaccine), an elimination policy will inevitably fail (in the foreseeable future)

Orrrrrrr

We can look at the financial damage that stage 4 or more lockdowns cause and realise that spending 1/1000 th of that on quarantine / iso rather than 1/100000ths of that is money well spent.

 

[Kwality]

When debt is used to create nation-building infrastructure, it can end up paying itself off.

Spot on & thats what we will need to do for future generations.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

newscorp again looking like dickheads that have had s**t flung onto their faces.

predicted a 1000 case a day scenario. sad and flip.

 

[gingernuts]

newscorp again looking like dickheads that have had sh*t flung onto their faces.

predicted a 1000 case a day scenario. sad and flip.

fooking newscorp. disgrace they are.

 

[Pessimistic]

Governments print money, there's no vault, big or small.

People need to stop thinking about government budgets in the same way they think about their personal budget.

Best bit if they do get a surplus, they invest in other countries infrastructure

 

[Professor Knowall]

So finally Victoria's failed contract tracing system is getting mainstream media attention, though the media reports today are only about the insufficient numbers employed doing it (but this has now mostly been fixed), and not about its initial incompetent administration, which I previously posted about here.

I truly believe the contact tracing failure is even worse than the quarantine debacle as the major cause why the State Gov't failed to control the spread of covid in Victoria, unlike all the other states which managed to properly manage their contact tracing.

 

[kranky al]

So finally Victoria's failed contract tracing system is getting mainstream media attention, though the media reports today are only about the insufficient numbers employed doing it (but this has now mostly been fixed), and not about its initial incompetent administration, which I previously posted about here.

I truly believe the contact tracing failure is even worse than the quarantine debacle as the major cause why the State Gov't failed to control the spread of covid in Victoria, unlike all the other states which managed to properly manage their contact tracing.

That and more flexibility when it comes to managing negating efforts.

The sooner you act the greater the effect - the longer they listen to the very wealthy people living in covid proof cocoons that want everything open so they can make money - the more it hurts when we face facts and shut down for longer than if wed pulled off the plaster in one hit early.

 

[kranky al]

You people advocating for opening back up might wanna read whats happening in a country with covid running rampant:

Stories From The Unemployment Subreddit Show How Dire Things Have Gotten In The U.S.

Too many people are only a paycheck or two away from falling into a hole that's impossible to dig themselves out of—this is so wrong!

god.dailydot.com

 

[josephine666]

So finally Victoria's failed contract tracing system is getting mainstream media attention, though the media reports today are only about the insufficient numbers employed doing it (but this has now mostly been fixed), and not about its initial incompetent administration, which I previously posted about here.

I truly believe the contact tracing failure is even worse than the quarantine debacle as the major cause why the State Gov't failed to control the spread of covid in Victoria, unlike all the other states which managed to properly manage their contact tracing.

What's your bad experience with Victorian contract tracing? My only experience was with NSW Health who called my business partner 13 days after he sat on a flight near a positive case. He was told to quarantine for the next 4 hours as the 14 day exposure period ended at midnight! That doesn't strike me as a beacon of effeciency and flawless management, especially considering I was on the same flight next to him and didn't get a call at all.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That and more flexibility when it comes to managing negating efforts.

The sooner you act the greater the effect - the longer they listen to the very wealthy people living in covid proof cocoons that want everything open so they can make money - the more it hurts when we face facts and shut down for longer than if wed pulled off the plaster in one hit early.

Do you remember when we first locked down? First Ripple?

No-one had it. ( rounded off ).

If we'd locked down harder we'd have achieved the same outcome.

Then when we had the hotel quarantine breach it would have been no different.

So you are suggesting that if you get a date with Scarlett Johannson , you're best to do it in your pants while eating dinner.

 

[josephine666]

Do you remember when we first locked down? First Ripple?

No-one had it. ( rounded off ).

If we'd locked down harder we'd have achieved the same outcome.

Then when we had the hotel quarantine breach it would have been no different.

So you are suggesting that if you get a date with Scarlett Johannson , you're best to do it in your pants while eating dinner.

Well, when Scarlett has already made out with the uber driver, the concierge, the waitress and a dozen autograph hunters on the way to the restaurant, you may as well.

In hindsight, locking down at the start when there was no real community transmission wasn't necessary but I don't blame anyone for that considering the horror show overseas. Back then we didn't know what was going to happen. We do now. All it has taken is one or two people being stupid or selfish and we have our own horrow show. Locking down to protect the vunerable and elderly is the only way.

 

[Clems Knee]

Well, when Scarlett has already made out with the uber driver, the concierge, the waitress and a dozen autograph hunters on the way to the restaurant, you may as well.

In hindsight, locking down at the start when there was no real community transmission wasn't necessary but I don't blame anyone for that considering the horror show overseas. Back then we didn't know what was going to happen. We do now. All it has taken is one or two people being stupid or selfish and we have our own horrow show. Locking down to protect the vunerable and elderly is the only way.

Not just the vulnerable and elderly. When the numbers of infected get great enough, we see increasing numbers of young and healthy people getting seriously ill.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Well, when Scarlett has already made out with the uber driver, the concierge, the waitress and a dozen autograph hunters on the way to the restaurant, you may as well.

In hindsight, locking down at the start when there was no real community transmission wasn't necessary but I don't blame anyone for that considering the horror show overseas. Back then we didn't know what was going to happen. We do now. All it has taken is one or two people being stupid or selfish and we have our own horrow show. Locking down to protect the vunerable and elderly is the only way.

Personally I take issue with people moving blame away from the Andrews government for the second wave and blaming the individuals involved (dodgy security guards / dodgy guests).

The fact of the matter is that when you run a quarantine program you need to account for the fact that a certain percentage of people will try and "game" the system. I mean this is why we have a police force, it would be nice to expect everyone to obey the law and act ethically but that just doesn't happen in rel life

If they had of had ADF / police running the quarantine (or at least overseeing the private guards) I strongly doubt we would be in this s..t house position we find ourselves in now.

I still cannot get my head around the fact that for some reason the state government outsourced the running of a quarantine program (the most important part of our pandemic response) for the greatest health crisis in 100 years to a bunch of Nightclub Bouncers.

I have thought about it a lot and I am still baffled by the logic (or lack thereof). If they were the only option then I guess that would make some kind of weird sense but they had 800 ADF troops on standby twiddling their thumbs (plus god knows how many Police).

 

[the harry]

Personally I take issue with people moving blame away from the Andrews government for the second wave and blaming the individuals involved (dodgy security guards / dodgy guests).

The fact of the matter is that when you run a quarantine program you need to account for the fact that a certain percentage of people will try and "game" the system. I mean this is why we have a police force, it would be nice to expect everyone to obey the law and act ethically but that just doesn't happen in rel life

If they had of had ADF / police running the quarantine (or at least overseeing the private guards) I strongly doubt we would be in this s..t house position we find ourselves in now.

I still cannot get my head around the fact that for some reason the state government outsourced the running of a quarantine program (the most important part of our pandemic response) for the greatest health crisis in 100 years to a bunch of Nightclub Bouncers.

I have thought about it a lot and I am still baffled by the logic (or lack thereof). If they were the only option then I guess that would make some kind of weird sense but they had 800 ADF troops on standby twiddling their thumbs (plus god knows how many Police).

You're giving too much credit to Vic Pol.

They just had a matter of assaulting a guy with a disability that they were doing a welfare check on.