Strategy Aggressive reset

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Aggressive resets, the Pimms of the rebuild world.

It's the rebuild you have when you don't know what you're doing.
 
Psicosis said:
It's difficult not to compare our "Aggressive Reset" to Ports, or even now more recently, Freo's.

From my perspective our approach was very much "one foot in, one foot out", I view it as quite half a**ed. The club tried to take short-cuts, and despite bringing in some really promising young players, also topped up with fringe players from other clubs, which has now been revealed as the wrong approach.

If you compare draft hands (in the top 40) since 2017..

Port - Pick 5, 12, 14, 18, 18, 25
Freo - Pick 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 17, 32
North - Pick 4, 8, 23, 31, 34, 35

Speaks for itself really, Freo have had 5 in the top 10 Vs our 2, Port have had 5 in the top 20 Vs our 2.

With 2, 12 & 27 currently in 2020, our mix looks better, however both these clubs have done a great job at "Aggressively Resetting" through the draft, and something we must do over the next two drafts.
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North are allergic to high draft picks. We do do all we can to avoid them.
 

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the big lebowski said:
North are allergic to high draft picks. We do do all we can to avoid them.
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The greatest of all wisdoms, is the wisdom of hindsight. Who knows what might have happened if our big trade plays had have come off, not to mention, this year, had Cunnington and others not got injured.
 
Horace said:
The greatest of all wisdoms, is the wisdom of hindsight. Who knows what might have happened if our big trade plays had have come off, not to mention, this year, had Cunnington and others not got injured.
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Probably the same thing as last year. A finish between 7th and 12th
 
Horace said:
The greatest of all wisdoms, is the wisdom of hindsight. Who knows what might have happened if our big trade plays had have come off, not to mention, this year, had Cunnington and others not got injured.
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To be fair The Dude has been encouraging us to tank since at least round 22 2017.
 
Pykie said:
Not only that, Fremantle leveraged their NGA situation with Liam Henry correctly last year and managed to take 3 players in the top 10.

We took completely the wrong tactic at the time by basically rendering pick #12 as useless and a free hit at the trade table for Polec.

Port intern with some creative trading turned the Polec pick into Connor Rozee.

We missed a huge (and probably our only opportunity with our NGA academy) to leverage into the strongest draft in a decade. We only had 4 selections to overcome with trading and we walk away with Bailey Smith and Tarryn Thomas.

No club since has looked at the NGA strategy as an opportunity to "burn the pick". Every club has tried to get ahead of their pick to double down on the draft.
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Let’s see what the dogs and swans do with their picks concerning nga
 
Horace said:
The greatest of all wisdoms, is the wisdom of hindsight. Who knows what might have happened if our big trade plays had have come off, not to mention, this year, had Cunnington and others not got injured.
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Plenty of "hindsight experts" avoid having skin in the game themselves too Horry.
 
King Corey said:
We tried, we failed.

The lesson: never try
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Nah

We tried, we second guessed and ended up half pregnant.

The lesson is an old one.

If you're gonna commit, commit, if you don't you'll get hurt.
 

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Snake_Baker said:
It's actually not settled yet.

Let's wait & see what happens with Polec/Pittard/Hall.
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It is settled for the blokes from the club who termed it that.

Sure we as a club are not out of where they took us, and there may be value in some of what they brought it, but for them it is over.
 
Masked Avenger said:
The demise of our club is greatly exaggerated.

The next two drafts could easily set this Club up for its third coming given the young talent we've already secured.
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I think this is a really common misconception on this board though. I can't speak for all posters, however for posters like myself that are pro "Rebuild"/"Reset" whatever you want to call it, I don't think the club is in a demise. From my perspective, two finishes in the bottom four, stocking up on 5 or so picks in the top 25, should do the trick, when added to our mix of already talented youngsters.

I do however have little patience for the club trying to "make the best of what we've got", not taking the necessary steps to set the list up long term, reluctance to let go of senior players/bring in more kids & bringing in opposition depth players. The reality is, this is what we have done for a long time. Sure we have added some good kids the last few years, but we have had to make the best of an average situation regarding draft order.

I absolutely agree that the next two drafts COULD easily set the club up, however it won't be through just doing business as usual as we have for the last 3 years since the last "Aggressive Reset".
 
Psicosis said:
I think this is a really common misconception on this board though. I can't speak for all posters, however for posters like myself that are pro "Rebuild"/"Reset" whatever you want to call it, I don't think the club is in a demise. From my perspective, two finishes in the bottom four, stocking up on 5 or so picks in the top 25, should do the trick, when added to our mix of already talented youngsters.
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We have benefited greatly from being a complete shambles medically speaking, most of our kids have had LTIs which has set their careers back 1-2 years, which while not great, has seen us plummet to the near the bottom this year when I think champion data rated our list in the top 6.

We produce players like Brown, Larkey, Xerri, Zurhaar, etc with rubbish picks/rookie list and have been accumulating a bit of young talent.

I do however have little patience for the club trying to "make the best of what we've got", not taking the necessary steps to set the list up long term, reluctance to let go of senior players/bring in more kids & bringing in opposition depth players. The reality is, this is what we have done for a long time. Sure we have added some good kids the last few years, but we have had to make the best of an average situation regarding draft order.
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We hold on to serviceable players with low ceilings who are inconsistent for too long, but it can be hard to determine who is not good enough and who are just doing what they are being instructed to do.

I absolutely agree that the next two drafts COULD easily set the club up, however it won't be through just doing business as usual as we have for the last 3 years since the last "Aggressive Reset".
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I think our biggest problem has been running players of value into the dirt by not letting them go. Ie, we let Hale go to make room to play Goldy, we got some decent value out of Hale on the trade table and he went on to win a couple of premierships but his stocks would have fallen faster than Hansen's did if we just kept him around and rotated him around the park looking for some value out of him.

A lot depends on what you want to do in the draft. If McDonald's form continues and he appears to be one of the best forward prospects that has gone around for some time are we going to sink pick 2 on him if he is there? He is not going to be the marquee forward if Brown is there and 95% of inside 50s go to Brown. Larkey has blossomed a lot more of late while Brown has been out because he has more opportunity.

Do we roll the dice on Hollands? Bolster our midfield? If we get an A grade mid prospect are we going to dick him around like we did McDonald? Are we going to give him fringe roles like we did LDU for a few years? It is one thing getting talent through the door, it is another to do what is required to ensure that talent has every possibility to blossom and that means sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions in the present for the benefit of the near future.

Our kids generally take a lot longer to come on because we stunt their development. If we are going to make a significant inroad into not being mediocre we have to do things differently than we have in the past.
 
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Pykie said:
Our road map over the next 3 years should be to get 4 first round pick midfield talents into the club, which ever way we can...
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Now ... I know it's not the same thing as what you were thinking of but we have two first round picks this year. In 2018 we drafted Thomas, Scott and Taylor.

We may already have the equivalent of three first round midfield talents right there. We can still achieve what you were after, to a degree, if you give the license that Scott are Taylor are potential first round picks that we got to the club any way we could. Plus two first round picks this year and we potentially get five of those type of players.

Maybe we got Taylor anyway, with an earlier pick (tho I doubt it) but we probably wouldn't have. So we may have missed him. For Bailey Smith ... Probably worth missing him, but you are the one who got thinking this way after the Saints game when you put up a picture of draft year Nat Fyfe when we were all raving at how good Taylor was.

Taylor won us that game I reckon. There were a bunch of crucial contests he halved or won that made the difference around either side of half time. It wasn't just his commitment and determination, it was his footy smarts. His ability to read the game, understand the importance of that contest and commit wholeheartedly to it - that was the difference between us IMO.

The point I am making is simply this:

We may not have been that much better off if we got one gun before TT and then for whatever reason missed Taylor. You can't assume he would still be there if the draft is that radically different.
 
the big lebowski said:
Probably the same thing as last year. A finish between 7th and 12th
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On the basis of what?

You can't compare to the whole of last year, only to the period with the new coach. So sixth or higher.

We have LDU maturing, Daw back, Jy hitting his straps. All of this stuff we expected. Taylor out of the blue, LMac improving when everyone thought he was average and stuck we didn't expect. Those are al immediate, significant list improvements on last year.

We lost Scott Thompson. We gained Josh Walker. That's close to even. Otherwise we didn't really lose any talent.

So our list has improved.

And we have a new coach who last year showed many qualities the previous coach didn't have. Including the ability to change a side and generate come back wins, the willingness to drop players to send messages, to play young players and give them responsibility. He did all these things last year.

So on the basis of that why would you expect our results to remain the same?

Psicosis said:
I do - A mid-table finish.
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No you don't.

You are only expecting that because you are conditioned to from the previous coaching dept.
 
ferball said:
On the basis of what?

You can't compare to the whole of last year, only to the period with the new coach. So sixth or higher.

We have LDU maturing, Daw back, Jy hitting his straps. All of this stuff we expected. Taylor out of the blue, LMac improving when everyone thought he was average and stuck we didn't expect. Those are al immediate, significant list improvements on last year.

We lost Scott Thompson. We gained Josh Walker. That's close to even. Otherwise we didn't really lose any talent.

So our list has improved.

And we have a new coach who last year showed many qualities the previous coach didn't have. Including the ability to change a side and generate come back wins, the willingness to drop players to send messages, to play young players and give them responsibility. He did all these things last year.

So on the basis of that why would you expect our results to remain the same?



No you don't.

You are only expecting that because you are conditioned to from the previous coaching dept.
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What’s more likely? North finishes mid table again as it has for 10 years, or we magically rise up the ladder to be a top side.

I get that you live our club, as i do, and you want us to be a top team. I do too.

But we are a mid table side, reliant on guys over 30. That’s just the reality.
 
ferball said:
On the basis of what?

You can't compare to the whole of last year, only to the period with the new coach. So sixth or higher.

We have LDU maturing, Daw back, Jy hitting his straps. All of this stuff we expected. Taylor out of the blue, LMac improving when everyone thought he was average and stuck we didn't expect. Those are al immediate, significant list improvements on last year.

We lost Scott Thompson. We gained Josh Walker. That's close to even. Otherwise we didn't really lose any talent.

So our list has improved.

And we have a new coach who last year showed many qualities the previous coach didn't have. Including the ability to change a side and generate come back wins, the willingness to drop players to send messages, to play young players and give them responsibility. He did all these things last year.

So on the basis of that why would you expect our results to remain the same?



No you don't.

You are only expecting that because you are conditioned to from the previous coaching dept.
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I don't really know how to respond to this. I mean, it's great that you're so positive, however I don't think we will ever agree because your opinion seems to be largely based on hypothetical best case scenarios. It's funny because I often get accused of being bias by non north supporters, but you've broken new ground here.

I don't agree with the blanket statement that our list has improved. Our kids have improved after being given more responsibility, sure. LMac has had a career best season. Those are positives. Injury or no injury, to say a list that has gone from constantly mid-table to second last, has improved is just very nuffy.

I could argue that without the injuries, Jy & LDU gets nowhere near as many midfield minutes, Scott & Mahoney still plays VFL, Hayden & Bonar don't get near the amount of opportunity in the back 6 as they have, the list goes on. I'm actually in the camp that the injuries to our senior and mid aged players this year has been a silver lining, in that we've had the opportunity to see what a lot of these kids have, and thankfully they have delivered.

You could say Rhys has been great in terms of making tough calls at selection, however you could also come at it from the other angle and say that he has made some horrendous judgement calls at selection (Playing Cunnington & Ziebell). The game plan has improved in recent weeks, but go and rewatch our 0-6 losing streak if you seriously believe that Rhys was ready to coach us to a top 6 spot. He is very much learning, and probably needs a senior mentor in 2021 supporting him.

So on the basis of that why would you expect our results to remain the same? 2020: 17th, 2019: 12th, 2018: 9th, 2017: 15th, 2016: 8th, 2015: 8th....
 
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the big lebowski said:
What’s more likely? North finishes mid table again as it has for 10 years, or we magically rise up the ladder to be a top side.

I get that you live our club, as i do, and you want us to be a top team. I do too.

But we are a mid table side, reliant on guys over 30. That’s just the reality.
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Dude - Ferbs comes from the blind optimism camp - that no North player could ever lose form; that BBB could never only average 1 goal a game in a season; that other teams can never improve more than us....

And then invariably when we are 3/4's of the way through a season the standard excuse gets trotted out like clockwork ...we are really a top 6 team but we are just having bad luck this season....
 
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