Strategy Aggressive reset

[Snake_Baker]

Yet I and others around here predicted just this in 2017, 2018 and 2019. And we are just plebs on the interwebz.

The most frustrating part of this is saying at the time that we are doing the wrong thing, fast forwarding 2,3 years into the future, being proved correct, then hearing no one could have predicted that.

That's what this is really about, you're frustrated, and I get that.

However, trust the older, wiser heads with this. Do you see any of us running about as if the sky is falling with regards to the state of the list?

We're not anywhere near as bad as you might think, and the upsurge is just around the corner. Trust me.

 

[Horace]

Yet I and others around here predicted just this in 2017, 2018 and 2019. And we are just plebs on the interwebz.

The most frustrating part of this is saying at the time that we are doing the wrong thing, fast forwarding 2,3 years into the future, being proved correct, then hearing no one could have predicted that.

Okay, if you can post some links to those comments you and others made around here 2017, 2018 and 2019, then you are entitled to say its not hindsight.

Which leads me back to one of my earlier comments. Some foresight please with tomorrow's tattslotto numbers. Thank-you.

 

[Marstermind]

I think that for a team that is 2 weeks in to a full rebuild, we start from a pretty high base. We actually have some decent players under 25, and in a year that was a write off anyway losing Ziebell, Brown and Cunnington is a small blessing provided that if they come back, they come back 100%. Those under 25s are getting opportunities that otherwise they'd never have got. It's not amounting to wins now, or even consistently competitive performances, but in the big picture we might be OK.

We could be Hawthorn. They've been like Leo diCaprio at the end of Titanic for years. In trouble, floating along but not getting anywhere but eventually the system, like Kate Winslet, just won't let them on the door and so they're going to sink like a stone to the bottom.

Or Adelaide. They're more like Adam Sandler in any movie he's made in the last 10 years that was meant to be funny. Just shithouse with no redeeming features.

Having said that, we need to nail the upcoming draft and trade period. If we don't then a pall of real gloom will descend very quickly.

 

[Horace]

That's what this is really about, you're frustrated, and I get that.

However, trust the older, wiser heads with this. Do you see any of us running about as if the sky is falling with regards to the state of the list?

We're not anywhere near as bad as you might think, and the upsurge is just around the corner. Trust me.

That's my view as well. This has been a shocker of a year, no doubt about that, but there are positives that have emerged as so often does in adversity. Nothing in this world is forever, things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but they change.

In this shocking year I see real positives in the development of MacKay, Scott, Taylor, Larkey (again), LDU, Heydon, Jy, Mahony, Xerri to name those who in my eyes have shown a bit. We may end up with Pick 2, but if not Pick 3 or 4.

This will be a harder draft than ever to get the best talent because of the restrictions on the U18 competition, but hopefully we will get a decent player from that lot, plus another pick in the low 20's.

If we go back to 22 games next year, then we should get a reasonable draw. If the pandemic comes under control and even better there is a vaccine, then we may once again see football in our home state.

There is always a corner ahead. Hopefully when we turn it there will be a light on some better days there. (With apologies for mixing metaphors.)

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

Yet I and others around here predicted just this in 2017, 2018 and 2019. And we are just plebs on the interwebz.

The most frustrating part of this is saying at the time that we are doing the wrong thing, fast forwarding 2,3 years into the future, being proved correct, then hearing no one could have predicted that.

Dude - the thing that you can hang your hat on now is that we have a new team in charge of recruiting and list management - that gives me confidence that we can get the job done over the next 3 years to get ourselves back into the top bracket.

The Board has also signed onto the need to rejuvenate the list with young talent - no more short cuts/big fish hopefuls.

We didn't have this 3 years ago - so when those of us who knew we needed to rebuild then were ignored I am confident that is not going to happen again.

If we had Scott and Joyce at the helm still with the Board saying ...buy a membership we are that close to a flag....I would be concerned for our future.

But with a fresh team in charge and fresh approach I am optimistic that in 3 years we will be positioned nicely for a tilt at the top - this is pretty much the opposite to what I said 3 years ago (and at the start of this year when I said we would finish 12th after watching training and intra clubs).

 

[the big lebowski]

I’ve also seen many positives this year.

I shall refrain from negative comments for the remainder of the year.

But if we win ourselves out of a top 5 pick for the rest of the year, I swear I’ll burn this place to the ground.

 

[Tas]

How many did West Coast have in their 2016 premiership team?

They lost in 2016, won in 2018. Depends on if you include trades and if you just mean the team on the grand final or include those in the squad who weren't available due to injury/suspension.

Kennedy went #4 in 2005, was part of the Judd trade.
Masten went #3 in 2007
Gaff went #4 in 2010
Naitanui #2 in 2008

Sheppard went #7 and they also got end of first round priority picks in Shuey (norm smith medalist) and Darling which we are never going to get.

They traded in guys like Redden, Yeo, Kennedy, Cripps, Vardy, Jetta
Got good value from their first round picks: Sheed #11, Hurn #13, Duggan #11, Venables #13. They had a few bolters like McGovern and Lecras but overall they had a side with a lot of top end talent. They had an uncanny ability to go from premiership contender to bottom 4 for a number of years before winning.

 

[Psicosis]

Dude - the thing that you can hang your hat on now is that we have a new team in charge of recruiting and list management - that gives me confidence that we can get the job done over the next 3 years to get ourselves back into the top bracket.

The Board has also signed onto the need to rejuvenate the list with young talent - no more short cuts/big fish hopefuls.

We didn't have this 3 years ago - so when those of us who knew we needed to rebuild then were ignored I am confident that is not going to happen again.

If we had Scott and Joyce at the helm still with the Board saying ...buy a membership we are that close to a flag....I would be concerned for our future.

But with a fresh team in charge and fresh approach I am optimistic that in 3 years we will be positioned nicely for a tilt at the top - this is pretty much the opposite to what I said 3 years ago (and at the start of this year when I said we would finish 12th after watching training and intra clubs).

I think this is the concern that many skeptics have (myself included)... What is the evidence of this?

Rhys dropping senior players, Playing kids & 2x First rounders in 2020 appears positive, however I don't have complete confidence in your statement yet.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

I think this is the concern that many skeptics have (myself included)... What is the evidence of this?

Rhys dropping senior players, Playing kids & 2x First rounders in 2020 appears positive, however I don't have complete confidence in your statement yet.

I posted the statement made by Ben Buckley a week ago (the statement was sent to members about 6 weeks ago) - did you get it?

I can repost if necessary.

Yes of course this is talk not action but I have confidence that the action will come post season - including trading high profile players and keeping our early draft picks.

 

[Psicosis]

I posted the statement made by Ben Buckley a week ago (the statement was sent to members about 6 weeks ago) - did you get it?

I can repost if necessary.

Yes of course this is talk not action but I have confidence that the action will come post season - including trading high profile players and keeping our early draft picks.

Yep I've read it, it's positive and is clear in that things will change.

I personally would have liked more emphasis on adding to our young group. In fairness he calls out the first two rounders this year, as well as touches on trade/FA. I just think, given what the supporter base has been through the last 4 years (regarding uncertainty of our list strategy, using trade/fa for the wrong reasons), I would have liked it to be clearer that yes we recognize that we invest heavily in the draft (beyond just the first 2 rounders we already hold).

 

[krakouers]

Really?

So just assuming we had managed to get 4 players we went hard for in recent trading periods, and, also assuming we had the same injury list as we did last week, you don't think this team might have got across the line last week and in some games in previous weeks?

Backs: McKay Walker Vickers-Willis
Half Backs: Atley Durdin McDonald
Centres: Kelly Martin Gaff
Half Forwards: Higgins Larkey Anderson
Forwards: Mahony Xerri Zurharr
Rucks: Goldstein Davies-Uniake
Rover: Simpkin

I/C: Williams Dumont Scott Murphy

Unavailable through injury: De Goey, Tarrant, Cunnington, Ziebell, Brown, Garner, Jacobs and 65 others.

That team would have surely managed one more goal and knocked over Brisbane and in addition won several more games this year to be right in the hunt.

Imagine last year if those same four players, Kelly, Martin, Gaff and De Goey had have been playing for us.

As to injuries and their impact. Our best player, BennyC has been absent for basically 10 of the 12 games this year. In the Age a few weeks back they published some statistics, which showed that Cunnington's absence on our win/loss ratio is greater than that of any other player's impact on any club in the AFL.

The fact is that you never replace your best player with your second best player when the number 1 goes down. You replace him with someone who arguably is outside your best 22. That is a huge impact on any team.

Horace, would we have not been having Carltank levels of Salary cap rorting?

 

[ChoppyGun]

But if we win ourselves out of a top 5 pick for the rest of the year, I swear I’ll burn this place to the ground.

A bottom 5 is guaranteed but I'd still like to see us win a couple more for confidence next year etc

 

[krakouers]

They lost in 2016, won in 2018. Depends on if you include trades and if you just mean the team on the grand final or include those in the squad who weren't available due to injury/suspension.

Kennedy went #4 in 2005, was part of the Judd trade.
Masten went #3 in 2007
Gaff went #4 in 2010
Naitanui #2 in 2008

Sheppard went #7 and they also got end of first round priority picks in Shuey (norm smith medalist) and Darling which we are never going to get.

They traded in guys like Redden, Yeo, Kennedy, Cripps, Vardy, Jetta
Got good value from their first round picks: Sheed #11, Hurn #13, Duggan #11, Venables #13. They had a few bolters like McGovern and Lecras but overall they had a side with a lot of top end talent. They had an uncanny ability to go from premiership contender to bottom 4 for a number of years before winning.

Tas, maybe not the bolded one

 

[Psicosis]

A bottom 5 is guaranteed but I'd still like to see us win a couple more for confidence next year etc

What will those couple wins mean in 3 years time?

I'll tell you what they will mean, we don't have one of the best two mids in the draft (Phillips or Hollands) on our list. Late season wins are an absolute crock, we have scrapped together wins late in the season for half a decade and what has it done for us now? It only compromises our draft position.

 

[ChoppyGun]

What will those couple wins mean in 3 years time?

I'll tell you what they will mean, we don't have one of the best two mids in the draft (Phillips or Hollands) on our list. Late season wins are an absolute crock, we have scrapped together wins late in the season for half a decade and what has it done for us now? It only compromises our draft position.

Looks like we were trying pretty hard to win last game so you may not get your wish.

Draft isn't everything, otherwise Blues and Demons would be the best teams in the comp with all their picks.

 

[koshari]

ferball is harmless..........and I'm........apparently............a (disturbed) genius.

Sorry, but it's not my call, that's what all the tests reckon.

did you forget to mention "Modest"?

 

[koshari]

Looks like we were trying pretty hard to win last game so you may not get your wish.

Draft isn't everything, otherwise Blues and Demons would be the best teams in the comp with all their picks.

on the other hand it doesn't hurt when done correctly, see port 2018 & suns 2019 and hawks in the 04 draft we shall never mention again here.

 

[Tas]

Tas, maybe not the bolded one

Yeah, been a bit of a dud after 2018 but he is a premiership medal wearing dud I guess, you need some to have good years, we had a few in the 90s.

 

[ChoppyGun]

on the other hand it doesn't hurt when done correctly, see port 2018 & suns 2019 and hawks in the 04 draft we shall never mention again here.

Oh for sure. I'm all for getting high picks and hitting the draft hard, but still want the younger team to keep building not fall apart that's all.

If we get a win wouldn't be the end of the world like some seem to think.

 

[Psicosis]

Looks like we were trying pretty hard to win last game so you may not get your wish.

Draft isn't everything, otherwise Blues and Demons would be the best teams in the comp with all their picks.

If you think that what is being suggested in this thread is aligned with a Melbourne/Carlton approach to list management, you should go back and re-read before commenting further. They are a great example of what not to do.

For two clubs that have gone over the top with high picks and been unsuccessful, there is a much longer list of those that have done it properly and been successful.

 

[Snake_Baker]

They lost in 2016, won in 2018. Depends on if you include trades and if you just mean the team on the grand final or include those in the squad who weren't available due to injury/suspension.

Kennedy went #4 in 2005, was part of the Judd trade.
Masten went #3 in 2007
Gaff went #4 in 2010
Naitanui #2 in 2008

Sheppard went #7 and they also got end of first round priority picks in Shuey (norm smith medalist) and Darling which we are never going to get.

They traded in guys like Redden, Yeo, Kennedy, Cripps, Vardy, Jetta
Got good value from their first round picks: Sheed #11, Hurn #13, Duggan #11, Venables #13. They had a few bolters like McGovern and Lecras but overall they had a side with a lot of top end talent. They had an uncanny ability to go from premiership contender to bottom 4 for a number of years before winning.

It still doesn't justify the claim.

 

[The acurate one]

So according to an AFL footballer, who may play for North Melb or not....

Lists will be 36! - if true there will be a aggressive reset. I counted 45 players on our list currently. Add in any new recruits , and at least four draft picks. Crikey! Surely though lists will be 38?

Also.....

We haven't borrowed the money from the AFL we thought we would, that's a great thing.
We will run lean for the next 2-3 years, * to that !.

And the bit that is rattling around in my head and I'm not happy with is according to the guy mentioned in the first sentence, we think we can win FOUR of our LAST SIX!!!. We just won't learn (kick cat emoji), will have a few back this week as well. And JZ will play against GC in two weeks time.

Of all the years, just suck it up North FFS- he's an idea, win four of the first six next season .

Take of this what you will, and ignore if you want

 

[Passmore]

So according to an AFL footballer, who may play for North Melb or not....

Lists will be 36! - if true there will be a aggressive reset. I counted 45 players on our list currently. Add in any new recruits , and at least four draft picks. Crikey! Surely though lists will be 38?

Also.....

We haven't borrowed the money from the AFL we thought we would, that's a great thing.
We will run lean for the next 2-3 years, fu** to that !.

And the bit that is rattling around in my head and I'm not happy with is according to the guy mentioned in the first sentence, we think we can win FOUR of our LAST SIX!!!. We just won't learn (kick cat emoji), will have a few back this week as well. And JZ will play against GC in two weeks time.

Of all the years, just suck it up North FFS- he's an idea, win four of the first six next season .

Take of this what you will, and ignore if you want

Well, we might get a rude bloody shock when we don't......nothing wrong with the players thinking they can win though.

Unless it's Ben Cunnington, it won't make a whole lot of difference......I look forward to JZ playing 5 mins and breaking down again....

 

[Swallow_Wood]

And the bit that is rattling around in my head and I'm not happy with is according to the guy mentioned in the first sentence, we think we can win FOUR of our LAST SIX!!!. We just won't learn (kick cat emoji), will have a few back this week as well. And JZ will play against GC in two weeks time.

 

[Psicosis]

And the bit that is rattling around in my head and I'm not happy with is according to the guy mentioned in the first sentence, we think we can win FOUR of our LAST SIX!!!. We just won't learn (kick cat emoji), will have a few back this week as well. And JZ will play against GC in two weeks time.

For those questioning pessimism in the clubs strategy - Look no further then this statement.

True or not, it was a concern I had prior to reading this post.