Autopsy Round 14, 2020: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[Ricmel]

He has kicked 7 for us , he is not the same player he was back in 2013 - 2015 , he can jump or run anymore

Oh 7, that is much, much better than I thought.

Carlisle takes more marks per game and has way more disposals per game at Saints than he did at Bombers. At his age he should be at peak.

 

[The_Steadier]

You need to respond to every loss if you are even to start considering yourself a top 8 team and we have for the most part this year. Our game has been slowing week by week not just last night.
Our game against Brisbane was well below where we have been. Sorry but taking pivotal marks and kicking straight has a huge impact on both momentum, confidence and we have lost both. Our forward efficiency is pathetic now and our C grade players are falling behind.

If you consider our game against brisbane to have been well below our standard then I can't help you.
If you set the benchmark at perfection then you are gonna spend a lot of time being disappointed.

 

[plugger66]

better double mate , we are no chance .

We are a team of mates , we don’t kick the ball to loose players only our mates .

Wowee. The saying a week is a long time in footy applied to you. It’s a nice warm day. Go for a walk and forget about the game if it’s making you say things like that.

 

[Saint Shags]

Part of me is happy that they had to fly back last night with the Demons.
Hopefully there was some slight gloating.
If only more of our players played with the same heart as Steele.

 

[Plugger35]

Long seems to have lost his impact since the suspension. Think he’s second guessing himself. Don’t know what’s going on with Clark but he is lost at present.
I know the coaching staff have tried to slow our play down but it is having an horrendous effect on our transition. Our game style us barely recognisable from mid year.
I think we may have been trying to pay homage to Richo last night by playing our 2018 game plan.

Yeah it was definitely a throwback to the bad old Richo days, we dominated general play and bombed it aimlessly inside 50 for no goals while allowing cheap rebound goals against the run of play, frustrating to watch.

You can handle losing if you get beaten by a batter team but we were the better team last night and still found a way to lose.

Anyway I just checked the ladder and we're still in the Top 8 so we haven't blown our finals chances just yet, lose to the Hawks next week though and we can just about kiss finals goodbye.

 

[BigMonty]

Said on the gameday thread our cockiness could come back to bite us on the arse.

I am surprised at the surprise we lost. Some think all we have to do is turn up to win.
We are easy to shut down in a shortened game.
So many teams do it to us. Even Essendon, but Collingwood, Geelong, now Melbourne. Stop our run and we struggle.

Reckon we will look different in a longer game. The last 5 minutes of a qtr is when we will exploit our speed and break up a tiring zone.
Can't believe the critisism of King, our dumb, dumb, dumb mids, plopped it on his head all night, he was one out against two, sometimes three defenders, when he did bring it to ground where TF was Hind, Butler, or Kent?
Hows about putting it out in front of King.

And if he is getting beaten Ratten didn't move him until the last 5 minutes, FFS change it up a bit coach, don't leave the kid out to dry.
King was poor, but the critisism of him is way OTT.
We are so skinny on mids. So skinny.

Season is just about gone, but hasn't been wasted.
Our best players are still so young, a couple of quality mids and a proper season will see us on our way.

Carlisle forward and move King into CHF even a run in the ruck for 5 mon and Battle at ChB would have been an option...pity he wasn't there[emoji3]. Same with Gresh as he changes the dynamic of how we move the ball inside 50.

We lost the game because:
1. We bomb it long to the big blokes and hope it is marked or at least brought to ground where the small forwards do their job. Sadly yesterday they did not...

My issue is there is a sameness to our smalls Butler best of them smart footballer Hind speed good off both sides and Kent solid smart player but both are inconsistent as is Lonie who is slow but clever around goals. None of them are good above their head and we need variety as we have too many same same players.

Here is a radical thought bring in McKenzie and play him in the fwd pocket he is good above head fast well quicker than Lonie and Kent and very courageous. Agreed he is not great but he brings a difference...worth a shot. I would back him on a one on one contest with a player of similar size he would not lose many and would pluck a few.... just not in a pack as he is too small.

The other issue we have is that we have not learnt that when we have excess players around the ball the opposition has excess players somewhere else...usually a kick away. We need to run the ball more rather than hack it to an outnumber..viz King v May etal.

Do the same against WCE with McGovern Barrass and Hurn and we may as well give them the 4 points now and save everyone the trouble.

If we had run the ball forward of centre and gave the forward handball and had a shot from 50 at least it is a different style.

We need to be more confident and hold the ball longer when moving forward and force the opposition to react and make a mistake. Thats how Basketball beats the zone defence.

Love what we are doing with Sincs and he seems to finally found an effective way that he can impact the game hit the contest at speed...love it. Butlers influence I reckon.

Sure I would have liked to win against Melbourne who I do not rate but I think we lost it rather than they won it.

We struggle putting sides below us away..that's symptomatic of a young side yet to fully mature.

Feel we need to look at us in 2020 glass half full not half empty which is Melbourne.

Go Saints

 

[MrGilmore]

On a positive note Ben Paton totally shut out Kosi Pickett. 4 touches and 0 score involvements.


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[UnfinishedBusiness]

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

Albert Einstein

Exactly what I was thinking as I watched the game. Why didn’t we mix it up earlier! Back to the long bomb footy of last season. Forward line looked confused, what happened to our forward structures of early in the season?

Hill worked hard, Steele was good. Coffield and Clarke were reasonable.

Max needs a reset.

(I live in NYC so watched on delay. Used my Saturday night for this which would be disappointing except not much else to do on a Saturday night these days anyway)


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[SaintersUnite]

We need a contested bull that can actually lower the eyes and hit a target.


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[CaptainRisky]

Oh 7, that is much, much better than I thought.

Carlisle takes more marks per game and has way more disposals per game at Saints than he did at Bombers. At his age he should be at peak.

And he gets more marks and kicks with us why , Because he beats his man every week ,,,,,, No , because he plays loose

 

[CaptainRisky]

So don’t try it then. Let’s just do what we are doing, seems to be working well.

Ok , thats a good idea . lets not

 

[Jade Buddha]

If you consider our game against brisbane to have been well below our standard then I can't help you.
If you set the benchmark at perfection then you are gonna spend a lot of time being disappointed.

Perfection? We are so far from perfection it ain’t funny, disappointed? Yes mate very disappointed. Bitterly disappointed after where we were at mid year.
We are not even recognisable as the same team that beat port in Adelaide.
About half our team have lost form and confidence. Our ball movement is now atrocious. We are bordering on unwatchable.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Oh 7, that is much, much better than I thought.

Carlisle takes more marks per game and has way more disposals per game at Saints than he did at Bombers. At his age he should be at peak.

Also , do you remember when he played for the bombers , sitting on blokes heads taking hangers ect , he is no where near the player he was back then athletically

 

[gringo2011]

They have a good top end but the quality drops off drastically after their 5th best player.

I don't think it's that bad. A bulk of our players are around Melksham level.

 

[tomjoad]

Well, I've been busy this weekend and have had a lot of work to get through. Have just seen the game...a shambles and a terrible shame. However if this is us playing bad - which it was, as it was a shocker - then it is an improvement on our bad performances over the last 8 years, and a significant one at that. We are losing against form teams with fight and something resembling pride in the team...not that it matters because a loss is a loss. At least it's not a 2019 10 goal kicks in the balls. It's less than a goal...each and every f*cking time.
We just can't handle expectation, or kill an opposition when we should.
Next year we'll be better again.
I still reckon we'll make the finals, but we'll be a minor player. It's better than we could have realistically hoped for given what we've been.
It's bitter though, a team with no predatory nous, or killer instinct...will unfortunately not prevail.

 

[gringo2011]

Port A




Port Adelaide have 11 on their list over 30 they are at last chance Saloon.

Not all doom & gloom Gringo ....think half back line of Coffield / Howard / Clark excellent.
Bytel / Byrnes / Connolly see good upside ..all can kick the footy
Marshall only going to get better, King too.

If North don’t want Polec .... I do.......think Hill & him on Marvel wings would be nice.
Think we have moved past guys Lonie / Kent ...myself .

I mentioned Polec, I got laughed at. Small forwards are a worry. Byrnes and Bytel are probably still a few years off impacting in a big way.

 

[Plugger35]

We need a contested bull that can actually lower the eyes and hit a target.


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Like Petracca?

If he was in our team instead of Melbourne's we probably would have won that game by 5 goals or more, even without him we still should have won though.

 

[MrFoster]

Yeah it was definitely a throwback to the bad old Richo days, we dominated general play and bombed it aimlessly inside 50 for no goals while allowing cheap rebound goals against the run of play, frustrating to watch.

You can handle losing if you get beaten by a batter team but we were the better team last night and still found a way to lose.

Anyway I just checked the ladder and we're still in the Top 8 so we haven't blown our finals chances just yet, lose to the Hawks next week though and we can just about kiss finals goodbye.

I’m not sure we’re the better team. Melbourne controlled the ball all game.. when we have it, we just bombed it and hoped for the a miracle pack mark or a crumb from big pack of players.. low percentage stuff.. it worked early in the season because we were able to force turnovers with our pressure.. now our pressure no longer works, we all of a sudden struggled to score..

 

[Ricmel]

And he gets more marks and kicks with us why , Because he beats his man every week ,,,,,, No , because he plays loose

Mate we have one big guy in our list that is a proven goal kicker. One guy other than King who could be a key forward target, one guy who opposition clubs would take seriously.

But let’s not try him. Let’s leave him out of the team and flog every last bit of confidence out of King.

This is what is wrong with our coaching, they won’t try things.

 

[StFly]

Clark looked frustrated in the Essendon game when things didn't go his way..maybe having a mental slump? Seemed to be playing a lockdown role last night we we lost his run...not sure.

Hunter needs two things to exist;

Time.
Space.

In his current iteration, he is Hill with a bit more body to him and less punch in his running capacity, where if you want him to run to that contest, put the body on the line, repeat effort and basically be Steele, Hill will try once, Hunter will try twice and Steele will still be contesting.

That's his "problem", and in this match where you have one side two way running to plug space and rebound, well there's a reason guys like Seb, Gears, Phillips, Sincs, Paton, Long, Coff get to contests and try to contest them continually, and it's not because you trust their disposals, but it's because they have the desire to impact that contest, recognise their need to, and so they do.

We'll likely finish 6-7, limp in, do nothing much and hey, we played finals, congrats.

Mate we have one big guy in our list that is a proven goal kicker. One guy other than King who could be a key forward target, one guy who opposition clubs would take seriously.

But let’s not try him. Let’s leave him out of the team and flog every last bit of confidence out of King.

This is what is wrong with our coaching, they won’t try things.

Too top heavy with him, Dees have a few mid types that stream forward, hence Jones starting forward for them and Pretracca going deep, Snake being there does literally zero unless you rotate Battle back and plug him around the forward half since you expect members and King to even things but not take contested marks. I mean, there's a reason we looked better with Roma on May instead of King and Battle in the F50 with Members deep, as those are lead up guys compared to members and Ming who people just dump things on their head and say good luck.

Snake is more of the same, he basically only say gives Long and Coff a bit more release, but then who are you taking out of that line up?

 

[Stewart66]

I mentioned Polec, I got laughed at. Small forwards are a worry. Byrnes and Bytel are probably still a few years off impacting in a big way.

Not laughing at you mate .

Think we got ahead of ourselves with Port win .....still half way thru rebuild as you said.

Ratten has to put his imprint on the team structure , speed & skill .

Definitely needs Roughead around significantly big loss in my humble opinion.

 

[Plugger35]

I’m not sure we’re the better team. Melbourne controlled the ball all game.. when we have it, we just bombed it and hoped for the a miracle pack mark or a crumb from big pack of players.. low percentage stuff.. it worked early in the season because we were able to force turnovers with our pressure.. now our pressure no longer works, we all of a sudden struggled to score..

We must have been watching different games, I thought we controlled the ball for most of the game but couldn't make it count on the scoreboard.

Melbourne just flooded our defensive 50 and then tried to pinch goals on the rebound which luckily got them the win but they weren't the better team overall.

We just played dumb footy and shot ourselves in the foot, similar to the Brisbane game, a bit of composure and some smarts and we win both those games.

 

[Witch1]

Hi guys, this is a bit random but my son-in-law, a Saints supporter, has just asked my opinion on the female Indigenous dancers performance.

He said it was obvious that many of the young women dancers were very uncomfortable and self-conscious about being topless and were visibly trying to cover up.

So I didn’t see it so couldn’t give an opinion. Did anyone else notice? He was pretty angry about it.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Mate we have one big guy in our list that is a proven goal kicker. One guy other than King who could be a key forward target, one guy who opposition clubs would take seriously.

But let’s not try him. Let’s leave him out of the team and flog every last bit of confidence out of King.

This is what is wrong with our coaching, they won’t try things.

Ok , im leaving this alone , we are never going to agree

 

[CaptainRisky]

Mate we have one big guy in our list that is a proven goal kicker. One guy other than King who could be a key forward target, one guy who opposition clubs would take seriously.

But let’s not try him. Let’s leave him out of the team and flog every last bit of confidence out of King.

This is what is wrong with our coaching, they won’t try things.

Ok , im leaving this alone , we are never going to agree