Autopsy Round 15, 2020: Hawks lose to the Crows

[Lymbo]

What did we all expect really?

We are decimated. We just lost our best player in Sic, and have a bunch of seasoned players out in Frost Jaeger Hendo, Smith, shiels.. as well as Day who is performing like one. On the park their replacements are basically blokes auditioning to not be cut in Hanrahan, Glass, Cousins (who might be safe) o brien ect. Then we have a bunch of cooked senior players in Stratton, Frawley and maybe now Burgoyne, and 2 decent players in Lewis & Impey who have just had injury interrupted years.

Our list has holes but god damn teams need luck sometimes and we have had none. The team we fielded today had every chance of losing. Why are we so upset or surprised.

Also on Minchington, he is 26. He was in our bests today, and i wouldnt be against offering him a contract for next year. Chances are we will have alot of holes, none of the other forward pockets deserve games. Don't know why he is copping it. Anyone can see that hes a far more solid and afl ready player than hanrahan, glass, obrien and with a bit of luck could still be a player with 5 seasons in him

 

[Lymbo]

Spot on.

 

[Jaeger]

Wow you are optimistic.

The only top 8 side we haven't beaten this year and last is, bizarrely, Melbourne.

Don't get me wrong, we're a mile off being the team we were five years ago, but that isn't the benchmark anymore. The top teams now aren't that good.

 

[5ammy]

The only top 8 side we haven't beaten this year and last is, bizarrely, Melbourne.

Don't get me wrong, we're a mile off being the team we were five years ago, but that isn't the benchmark anymore. The top teams now aren't that good.

Love your optimism mate! People seem to forget that we were 3-1 before 'hub-life' with solid wins against Brisbane & Richmond.

Sure, we don't have as much depth as say a West Coast or Richmond but if we have most of our core players fit & firing we are still a very competitive unit.

The big challenge for us next year will be replacing Sicily but from what I've seen from Scrimshaw & Frost this season I reckon' we will adapt OK.

 

[rei154]

I'll always be confident going into a new year but I think people are discrediting the hub situation by saying "everyone is in it". This is true, but each team is in a different position and is handling it differently, as is each individual player.
I think the hub stuff is a great explanation for some of the performances we've seen. Is it a justification for it? Absolutely not, but I take a lot of solace from believing the players for one reason or another are up against it on that front.

This year I think we've been broken by our clubs words, especially when we started losing; we never saw the changes or the youth that we've been promised and that's making all fans angrier I think than the fact that we're losing more than we ever have in the past.
I think we were poorly positioned this year with our list- with us having a near majority of players playing for a contract for next year there were always going to be tensions, especially on field when players felt the need to do more to try and earn a dotted line to sign on.

I'm frustrated and I'm angry, but ultimately I trust the club to pull through this and be stronger next year! Albeit I'm hoping with a very different looking list.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I'm frustrated and I'm angry, but ultimately I trust the club to pull through this and be stronger next year! Albeit I'm hoping with a very different looking list.

I'm still annoyed that we are supposedly looking at a rebuild over the next few seasons, and yet we just give away one of our better young players in Burton, a future leader of the club. That is a huge mistake that will keep coming back to bite us in the bum. This is why I'm so confused about what direction we are taking. Are we rebuilding a list, or not?

 

[Aramis]

I love the autopsy threads, you cant tell the difference between those who have been drinking and those who haven't.

But seriously, where do I begin....

Stratton - a name that has been as pervasive as a pubescent pimple break out on our board the last couple of weeks. When you have the nerve to serve that s**t up and then sit there grinning like a Cheshire cat post-game, it is not hard to understand why the majority of our fans are left disillusioned. Needs to relinquish captaincy and retire yesterday. Cooked beyond belief.

Clarko - We got lectured for years by Clarko, he always said remain "dynamic", got to be "adaptable", insert another sporting cliche here. We had faith and were rewarded handsomely. Today we are anything but those things that he professed. Its time to play the kids without the 'apprenticeship' at Box Hill, there is no choice, at least that way we may gain something. Some form of experience, some form of a harsh lesson, something we can carry to the next tilt.

The only thing that would top it all off is trading our first rounder away for some 25-27-year-old "star".

Stick a fork in it, put a cherry on top or some other f***ing expression but change the strategy.. and fast...

For if we don't, we are going to become one of those absolute stinker clubs (see North currently, see Carlton 2010-2018) that overrates their list and gets stuck in a purgatorial echo chamber shouting into the nether about how "this is the year" whilst collecting our number 6-10 draft picks year in, year out.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

its a double edge sword those guys are meant to be your best players and they are also not performing to that level even though I think they will in the future, you can’t say they were sold a lie they know what they were getting into. This teams better than this we will be much better next year. You can’t take too much out of the season other than moving on Frawley Puopolo and phasing our Stratton.

How do you know we will be much better next season? That's what everyone said last season, but look at us now. The difference is laughable.

We had threads taking the piss out of people that suggested we were a middle of the road side, at best.

We can take a lot out of the season - some players are cooked. Some players are just not up to it and seemingly the coaching isn't either as the game plan needs a drastic change.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The only thing that would top it all off is trading our first rounder away for some 25-27-year-old "star".

You forgot to add ..... with a history of injury problems

 

[Judd2Sewell]

We lost Cyril, missed out on 2 elite FAs, one of which we had all but signed, and lost 3 of our best players to season long injuries at their peaks, amongst other things. It was calculated, the right thing to try, and it didn’t work. We move on.

The Sicily injury had no bearing on how rubbish we had been so far this season. We were absolutely poo prior to his injury.

But the main thing is that missing out on our FA targets should have completely changed how we approached this season. We were never a chance for a flag - a gallant first round finals exit maybe, but not a flag.

We also lost Rioli a while ago now. That should have already been in consideration when Clarko decided we were pushing for a flag.

 

[VandoHawk]

I'm still annoyed that we are supposedly looking at a rebuild over the next few seasons, and yet we just give away one of our better young players in Burton, a future leader of the club. That is a huge mistake that will keep coming back to bite us in the bum. This is why I'm so confused about what direction we are taking. Are we rebuilding a list, or not?

At the time we made that trade Clarkson would have been confident our list could contend. He wasn't looking to rebuild. And in fairness to him it wouldn't have been unreasonable to suggest that. We had just finished top 4, and while we went out in straight sets we did have injury to key personnel during that finals series. Bringing in Wingard was a move we made because we thought we were entering our Premiership window.

As we know things didn't work out that way. I can't begrudge the club or Clarkson for making these list decisions because we have the benefit of hindsight. And to be honest I'm not unhappy with how things went - Pick 18 + 35 would have been nice but there's no guarantee those picks would have amounted to anything and while Burton is going to be a solid defender Scrimshaw has proven himself more than capable in the role. Wingard is hot and cold but he's one of the only players left on our list with any spark. We overpaid but we always overpay for our trade targets.

I just hope the club realises now that we have deficiencies in our list that were being papered over before COVID hit. Topping up should no longer be the strategy - we have to go back to the draft to try and fill requirements. This doesn't necessarily mean we have to spend 5 years rebuilding (I think the wacky situation of this season has also exacerbated our issues) but a solid 2/3 years of trying to find the necessary pieces may be required.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I can't wait for the Clarko press conference

'The kids just couldn't hang on tonight'

'We will look to the future'

'We will look to give some of the younger guys a go over the next few weeks'

Out Burgoyne (managed), Scully (managed)

In: Shiels, Puopolo

"Injection of youth"

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How about some real input instead of your go to rearguard defence

Clarko's doing a great job and there is nothing wrong with the game plan.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

One positive I guess has been the form of Cousins the last three games. I think he might’ve done enough to earn a new contract for next year.

If not with us then surely with another team. He's likely saved his career. Good on him.

 

[Lotus]

Firstly, congrats to the Crows, their supporters probably needed that more than us.

As for us, that was probably a 15 year low point for the club. The frustrating part is that almost every supporter rolled their eyes this week when we named Stratton, Frawley and Ceglar again. How can the coaches not see what supporters can see so clearly?

Clarko says “we can’t play 10-12 kids at once” but is anyone really calling for that? Just a couple of new ones each week would be nice. We still have plenty of experience between Gunston, Breust, Mitchell, McEvoy, Wingard etc. without wasting games on guys like Stratton and Ceglar who aren’t earning their spot.

Stratton is a big issue, he is probably the worst AFL captain I’ve ever seen. I appreciate all he has done for our club and I believe that he is trying every week but he simply can’t do it any more. He gets shown up every week he’s in the team. He is a liability defensively and offensively and because he can’t impact the game individually he isn’t able to lead the players around him. A few times tonight when he made crucial mistakes you could just see the rest of the team drop their heads. It’s deflating for them to watch their captain getting embarrassed out there, and I feel sorry for him because I’m sure he wants to be better.

As I’ve said for a while now, the coaches are really underperforming this year. I found it interesting tonight in Clarko’s presser that he admitted that he has refrained from blasting them this season because they can’t escape from one another. I appreciate that he values the mental health of his players more than the wins and losses, I think that’s a good trait in a coach. He realises that there’s not much to be gained from creating a miserable environment in the hubs. It’s fair, but frustrating nontheless.

Here’s to playing more kids and getting flogged the next few weeks to get below the Swans for that draft pick!

We are living in a different era, public display of calling out players playing poorly, that's what we are doing as supporters in this forum. That's what the media will do and what people will say on the social media.

Clarko and co probably doing it behind the door. Who knows his review to players might be harsher than what we're saying in here.

Few days ago the club send out survey around the membership issues. I hope they will send us another survey about how is this year for us as members.

Stay strong people, lower our expectation for awhile. The moment we're back with spirit it'll be so sweet.

 

[Mercy Seat]

The Sicily injury had no bearing on how rubbish we had been so far this season. We were absolutely poo prior to his injury.

But the main thing is that missing out on our FA targets should have completely changed how we approached this season. We were never a chance for a flag - a gallant first round finals exit maybe, but not a flag.

We also lost Rioli a while ago now. That should have already been in consideration when Clarko decided we were pushing for a flag.

The off season is a few week window. To change tact when Coniglio did a 180 on us, when we’ve already re-signed other players and committed to others is just fanciful.

 

[TylerDurden]

I love the autopsy threads, you cant tell the difference between those who have been drinking and those who haven't.

But seriously, where do I begin....

Stratton - a name that has been as pervasive as a pubescent pimple break out on our board the last couple of weeks. When you have the nerve to serve that sh*t up and then sit there grinning like a Cheshire cat post-game, it is not hard to understand why the majority of our fans are left disillusioned. Needs to relinquish captaincy and retire yesterday. Cooked beyond belief.

Clarko - We got lectured for years by Clarko, he always said remain "dynamic", got to be "adaptable", insert another sporting cliche here. We had faith and were rewarded handsomely. Today we are anything but those things that he professed. Its time to play the kids without the 'apprenticeship' at Box Hill, there is no choice, at least that way we may gain something. Some form of experience, some form of a harsh lesson, something we can carry to the next tilt.

The only thing that would top it all off is trading our first rounder away for some 25-27-year-old "star".

Stick a fork in it, put a cherry on top or some other f***ing expression but change the strategy.. and fast...

For if we don't, we are going to become one of those absolute stinker clubs (see North currently, see Carlton 2010-2018) that overrates their list and gets stuck in a purgatorial echo chamber shouting into the nether about how "this is the year" whilst collecting our number 6-10 draft picks year in, year out.

Great post.
I've bemoaned Stratton for the best part of 2 years. Why? Because look at the message it sends the playing group. You can be cooked and not even best 22, but be gifted games only because you're captain. Bullshit!! We are a ruthless club and you should NEVER pick guys that are clearly not best 22 re form.
It rewards mediocrity and sells a message to the rest of the team, that we may not reward your good form at the lower levels. So why keep trying??

People have 2nd guessed Clarko all year. Has he lost the players? Well he may have lost some with this call alone.

Let's see how this plays out. But this has been a pathetic year for the club off the back of a range of baffling decisions by our leaders.

 

[daniel23]

The heat really has to come onto clarkson with his selection choices, everyone knows how stubborn he is but its getting out of control . I thought our best performance despite the loss was against Port Adelaide where Mcevoy actually rucked and ceglar missed . In what world is he living in that he doesn't see that as the best structure for the team?.

He talks culture, but continually giving experienced players a run over younger guys who have been getting positive feedback from scratch matches would almost kill there confidence more then playing seniors and losing.

I think There is some serious issues with in the club and I acknowledge he is one of the all time greats but id love a fresh start and fresh ideas and a simplified gameplan , because right now I have no clue what ours is and neither do the players .

 

[Mercy Seat]

Great post.
I've bemoaned Stratton for the best part of 2 years. Why? Because look at the message it sends the playing group. You can be cooked and not even best 22, but be gifted games only because you're captain. Bullshit!! We are a ruthless club and you should NEVER pick guys that are clearly not best 22 re form.
It rewards mediocrity and sells a message to the rest of the team, that we may not reward your good form at the lower levels. So why keep trying??

People have 2nd guessed Clarko all year. Has he lost the players? Well he may have lost some with this call alone.

Let's see how this plays out. But this has been a pathetic year for the club off the back of a range of baffling decisions by our leaders.

He’s the most loved and one of the most respected players within the walls of the club. He ain’t losing the playing group over picking him. Supporters maybe..

 

[TylerDurden]

He’s the most loved and one of the most respected players within the walls of the club. He ain’t losing the playing group over picking him. Supporters maybe..

Understand that. But he's not best 22 and been cooked for 2 years. He's part of the problem now and one of the reasons we are where we are.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

I'll always be confident going into a new year but I think people are discrediting the hub situation by saying "everyone is in it". This is true, but each team is in a different position and is handling it differently, as is each individual player.
I think the hub stuff is a great explanation for some of the performances we've seen. Is it a justification for it? Absolutely not, but I take a lot of solace from believing the players for one reason or another are up against it on that front.


This year I think we've been broken by our clubs words, especially when we started losing; we never saw the changes or the youth that we've been promised and that's making all fans angrier I think than the fact that we're losing more than we ever have in the past.
I think we were poorly positioned this year with our list- with us having a near majority of players playing for a contract for next year there were always going to be tensions, especially on field when players felt the need to do more to try and earn a dotted line to sign on.

I'm frustrated and I'm angry, but ultimately I trust the club to pull through this and be stronger next year! Albeit I'm hoping with a very different looking list.

A lot in that. Also, I thought us having more older and experienced guys Than most would help us in hub life, but it may have been the opposite.

living away from home for months, with your mates/colleagues would have its challenges.
Those could be magnified when you’re 30+ married and copping a go full from your wife who’s dealing with screaming kids all alone.
Then add in the fact you’ve achieved The holy grail. Some x 3
I can imagine the “fck it” mentality would be hard to keep at bay, and if you’re off by 5% then that’s all she wrote.

now the obvious counter is older teams like Cats etc. handling a lot better.

 

[B&GBlood]

There are so many tough guys posting on here condemning everyone and everything. So tough and no one uses their real name. Keyboard warriors the lot of us.

 

[Milkshaker]

Honestly don't know how you people can muster up so much anger. We haven't played in a relevant game for close to two months, all this does is ensure we get a better pick. Many of these players won't even be on the list next year, it means nothing.

Spot on the whole season summed up pretty well by Gunny.

 

[Mercy Seat]

A lot in that. Also, I thought us having more older and experienced guys Than most would help us in hub life, but it may have been the opposite.

living away from home for months, with your mates/colleagues would have its challenges.
Those could be magnified when you’re 30+ married and copping a go full from your wife who’s dealing with screaming kids all alone.
Then add in the fact you’ve achieved The holy grail. Some x 3
I can imagine the “fck it” mentality would be hard to keep at bay, and if you’re off by 5% then that’s all she wrote.

now the obvious counter is older teams like Cats etc. handling a lot better.

I think playing groups that have a strong leadership core and a group that get along well (ala the cats) would be handling it much better than club like us, where there is perhaps not as much as a cohesive group.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Honestly don't know how you people can muster up so much anger. We haven't played in a relevant game for close to two months, all this does is ensure we get a better pick. Many of these players won't even be on the list next year, it means nothing.

Bloody spot on.
People need to have a bit more faith and get some perspective I reckon.

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