Coach Justin Longmuir

[yakka man]

Have you been watching this season?

Nah mate, haven't watched any... SMH. No Premiership team of the last decade has been a low-scoring defensive team. If you want to have a system where players like Jesse Hogan literally cannot kick a goal then that's on you. I'm pretty sure, and hoping, that Longmuir doesn't see us as being a balanced team as yet, and his talk indicates that he wants us to be more offensive, with outside run. So that supports my view.

We have managed to create a team to score less than last year (adjusted for time) by 2 goals a game, whilst being more defensive.

Can you translate this into English please?

 

[Kram]

Nah mate, haven't watched any... SMH. No Premiership team of the last decade has been a low-scoring defensive team. If you want to have a system where players like Jesse Hogan literally cannot kick a goal then that's on you. I'm pretty sure, and hoping, that Longmuir doesn't see us as being a balanced team as yet, and his talk indicates that he wants us to be more offensive, with outside run. So that supports my view.



Can you translate this into English please?

Bulldogs were about 12th in scoring team for the regular season.

 

[more_of_bito]

Longmuir has had a tough year with covid and injury but has there been game plan changes.
Defense is still number one
Down the line bombs still number one
Play the boundary still number one.
Use of centre corridor still non existent.
Forward half still a shambles with all forward talls available.
Inability to hit the score board.
Next season will define Longmuir and his game plan.

Reckon shorter games have helped the younger teams also

 

[CapitalA]

Reckon shorter games have helped the younger teams also

Strongly disagree. Who are the top teams? Eagles - old, Geelong - old, GWS - old, StK - middle to old, Richmond - middle to old, only Port and Brisbane have young lists but the teams they play are probably on the older side.

 

[Daddoo]

I think we are going a bit round in circles. I agree with everything you say and have from the start. But my original post you responded to had nothing to do with mid-forward connection. You tried to turn it into that but I never had any intention of covering that aspect. If I had then I would have been saying the exact same things you are saying about training in separate groups etc.

Forget about the mids for a second. If the forwards don't have the ball they can't turn it over. That's the point right there. They have the ball!!! How it gets there is important but wasn't part of my original post. My post was saying once they have it in their hands then they are giving it up a lot more than they should be. And it isn't just one player in our forward line, it is all of them. If they as a group can't train for things like retaining the ball better then I'm not sure why you'd need a forward line coach. It'd be like saying we can't teach our defenders to defend because they can't train with the mids. Sure, the mids applying pressure downfield is critical to good defence but you shouldn't need them to participate in all your defensive drills to make them effective.

Your orginal post "Outside of all that though there is one glaring statistical area that pretty much sums up the #1 problem at Fremantle imo.

8 of the forwards on our list turn the ball more than 2.3 times per game. "

My response: "I agree with pretty much everything you said here. The big unknown for me is how has the inability to train with the entire groups (for, mids, defs) impacted our ability to deliver an effective i50 to a forward making a decent lead up run (or at least some movement). Could this be from the fact that the forwards are not getting the training they need with the mids and vice versa?"

You responded with a post huge post with stats about DE from our mids, some stats about our defenders, and a ton of other things that didn't address my supposition that perhaps not being able to train together may impact this stat (on which no stat will exist). An now you're yelling at me (using three exclamation marks) because I didn't address something you said in your original post.

"If the forwards don't have the ball they can't turn it over. That's the point right there. They have the ball!!! How it gets there is important but wasn't part of my original post. My post was saying once they have it in their hands then they are giving it up a lot more than they should be."

I totally agree with you that we need to practice holding on to the ball in our forward line better. I don't know why you are fixated on going to back to the total amount of balls delivered inside 50. I never said anything about this. I'm talking about the forwards being coached to move in a way that creates space and gives our mids a leading target and the mids knowing how those forwards are going to move in order to get it to them. Think about how for a few games we were hitting Tabs in the pocket on a leading run. It appeared that our mids and HF knew he would lead there and were putting the ball to space.

Teams are going to turn the ball over more when they are under high pressure than when they are under less pressure. It appears that when you deliver a ball high and floating inside 50, you are giving the defense more time to set up under the ball and get numbers around the drop zone. It appears that this delivery i50 puts our forwards under more pressure to take a contested mark then if we could hit them up on a lead. More Marks = less pressure. Less pressure = less turnovers.

Our marks i50.

2010 - 12.6
2011 - 11.5
2012 - 11.1
2013 - 11.6
2014 - 11.3
2015 - 10.5
2016 - 9.0
2017 - 9.1
2018 - 9.9
2019 - 10.7
2020 - 8.5

We currently have the lowest number of marks i50 in the last decade. Why is that? All I did was pose a question surmising that perhaps the turnovers are, in part, a result of the lack of connection between the mids and forwards (which D. Hale confirms is the case in the interview, but anyway...) partially caused by the lack of practice together. For the third time, I look at is as a symptom of a problem, you look it as a problem that can be fixed by working on that problem. If you were the forwards coach and tasked to reduce turnovers, would you work on drills where we play "keep away", or would you work on drills where the forwards learn to move in a coordinated way to create space and lead to that space to present the mids with a target. For me, it would be the latter. Looks like JLo agrees.

On Freo's website today: Longmuir said that there were many components to consider with restructuring the forward line...“We’d like to give our forwards a little bit more isolation and a bit more space for each other to work in and that’s probably the starting point we worked on this week.”

We've been watching the same bomb it long delivery i50 for years now (both under RTB and JLo) and I'm freaking tired of it. Hale needs to coach the forwards better and we need to develop a game plan where the mids know where the forwards are going before the defense does. I believe this will improve next year when the entire team can train together and our turnovers i50 will decrease (i.e. my original supposition). That's fine if you don't agree with this assessment.

P.S. I would still like those stats about who is delivering the ball i50. I feel like it's mostly the mids, but I could be way off base here. If you can just tell me where to find it, I would be happy to do it myself.

 

[wayToGo_]

All I did was pose a question surmising that perhaps the turnovers are a result of the lack of connection between the mids and forwards (which D. Hale confirms is the case in the interview, but anyway...).

Wtf? How does the mids to forward connection result in our forwards racking up ridiculous turnover stats? That makes no sense. Are our forwards trying to give the ball back our mids after getting their hands on it are they? lol

If you can explain to me how a forward ends up with a turnover on their stats sheet because of a mid not doing the right thing I am all ears.

 

[Bring back Drum]

The reason our forwards turn the ball over more than others is our slow movement between the arcs & a congested forward half full of opposition defenders.

Our backline, as well as it is going, is not anywhere near the finished product & once it is near that, the turnovers created will be further up the field, allowing for quicker & easier ball movement into a less congested forward half.

Our team defence currently is set up to protect our backline, with hope we create more scoring opportunities than we give up. Generally that is the mindset of a defensive minded coach.

The forward connection will be greatly improved over the summer now that the ‘Freo Net’ has been ingrained. I’m sure they would have worked more on this over the season if they could, but as a new coach there is only so much you can work on & defensive structures are always the first.

 

[sdfc]

The reason our forwards turn the ball over more than others is our slow movement between the arcs & a congested forward half full of opposition defenders.

Our backline, as well as it is going, is not anywhere near the finished product & once it is near that, the turnovers created will be further up the field, allowing for quicker & easier ball movement into a less congested forward half.

Our team defence currently is set up to protect our backline, with hope we create more scoring opportunities than we give up. Generally that is the mindset of a defensive minded coach.

The forward connection will be greatly improved over the summer now that the ‘Freo Net’ has been ingrained. I’m sure they would have worked more on this over the season if they could, but as a new coach there is only so much you can work on & defensive structures are always the first.

I think this is spot on, the slow ball movement is likely a function of bedding in a new system.

 

[Daddoo]

Wtf? How does the mids to forward connection result in our forwards racking up ridiculous turnover stats? That makes no sense. Are our forwards trying to give the ball back our mids after getting their hands on it are they? lol

If you can explain to me how a forward ends up with a turnover on their stats sheet because of a mid not doing the right thing I am all ears.

I think this is spot on, the slow ball movement is likely a function of bedding in a new system.

Totally agree with this. It is exacerbated by the fact that the three groups can't train together. This will improve next year.

 

[Daddoo]

Wtf? How does the mids to forward connection result in our forwards racking up ridiculous turnover stats? That makes no sense. Are our forwards trying to give the ball back our mids after getting their hands on it are they? lol

Trying to give the ball back to our mids? What does that even mean? I'm totally lost.

I think you need to go back and re-read my last post, man. I made some edits to help you get your head around what I originally supposed.

 

[Allikat]

This is such a weird year, and still so early to judge how we're really going. And to see how the players and gameplan react and evolve once the new coaching & support structure is put in place.

But I must say, I'm enjoying seeing how much more naturally the guys seem to be playing. Especially with the forwards, you can see it in how they go for shots, and it's been reflected in a pretty good accuracy this year. Like guys going for a snap rather than a straight on set shot if that's what they're more comfortable doing. Even Lobb's horrible looking runup. If players get to play how they're more comfortable playing, it's going to be easier for them to improve the other aspects of their game.

 

[wayToGo_]

The reason our forwards turn the ball over more than others is our slow movement between the arcs & a congested forward half full of opposition defenders.

Definitely agree slow movement makes it much easier for opposition teams to get numbers back but I suppose the question I then have is why is it just our forwards affected? Why when benchmarked against good teams are our midfielders and defenders on par (for turnovers) but our forwards so far behind? We aren't just talking a small difference here btw.

I'm really wanting for someone to convince me our forward line isn't just a dysfunctional mess that it seems to be when I've watched from the stands in every home game this year. I'm expecting improvement next year across the team but I honestly haven't witnessed any method up forward for the past 5 or so years. To clarify, I think individual forwards have improved (and some by a lot) but they honestly look like they are playing as individuals when we have possession of the ball. I'm not convinced Hale is the right person to coach up forward because he's had 5 years and what improvement (other than individual development) have we seen?

 

[Bring back Drum]

Definitely agree slow movement makes it much easier for opposition teams to get numbers back but I suppose the question I then have is why is it just our forwards affected? Why when benchmarked against good teams are our midfielders and defenders on par (for turnovers) but our forwards so far behind? We aren't just talking a small difference here btw.

I'm really wanting for someone to convince me our forward line isn't just a dysfunctional mess that it seems to be when I've watched from the stands in every home game this year. I'm expecting improvement next year across the team but I honestly haven't witnessed any method up forward for the past 5 or so years. To clarify, I think individual forwards have improved (and some by a lot) but they honestly look like they are playing as individuals when we have possession of the ball. I'm not convinced Hale is the right person to coach up forward because he's had 5 years and what improvement (other than individual development) have we seen?

I’m not a stats man & are unsure of our midfield numbers delivering inside F50, but I think the midfield numbers are improved due to our chip style of ball movement from D50, particularly early in the year when our disposal efficiency was in the top couple (not sure of that now)

I think we all agree that the words coming from Longmuir are extremely positive in acknowledging the problem & can expect some work on it over the summer.

 

[Moonrat]

Just watched the presser. Haven't read what anyone had said about it.

But 'there's no point winning the clearances by so much if we can't score!'

Is it just me or is this so simple that it's revolutionary compared to the complicated cobbler jargon RTB used to spin us with???

It's so refreshing to hear pure simple honesty that matches what I'm actually seeing.

 

[FreoStillNil]

I don't know whether it is to do with the defensive mindset (probably is), but over their history Freo had always had a problem putting teams away.

This keeps the opposition in the game. The opposition might be down by 4 goals at half time, but how many times have we seen Freo get run over?

Recent Carlton game a good example.

The only time we've finished the season with a percentage over 130 is 2013 and 2014. In only 10 out of 26 seasons (including 2020) has there been a percentage over 100, and in a few of those they made 100 by the skin of their teeth.

 

[apuchar]

Just watched the presser. Haven't read what anyone had said about it.

But 'there's no point winning the clearances by so much if we can't score!'

Is it just me or is this so simple that it's revolutionary compared to the complicated cobbler jargon RTB used to spin us with???

It's so refreshing to hear pure simple honesty that matches what I'm actually seeing.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[apuchar]

I don't know whether it is to do with the defensive mindset (probably is), but over their history Freo had always had a problem putting teams away.

This keeps the opposition in the game. The opposition might be down by 4 goals at half time, but how many times have we seen Freo get run over?

Recent Carlton game a good example.

The only time we've finished the season with a percentage over 130 is 2013 and 2014. In only 10 out of 26 seasons (including 2020) has there been a percentage over 100, and in a few of those they made 100 by the skin of their teeth.

We don't know how this game plan will end up yet. He has had one part preseason and his whole back line missing. He constantly says we don't score enough even when we win. Just give him a minute.

 

[Ben The Donkey]

I don't know whether it is to do with the defensive mindset (probably is), but over their history Freo had always had a problem putting teams away.

This keeps the opposition in the game. The opposition might be down by 4 goals at half time, but how many times have we seen Freo get run over?

Recent Carlton game a good example.

The only time we've finished the season with a percentage over 130 is 2013 and 2014. In only 10 out of 26 seasons (including 2020) has there been a percentage over 100, and in a few of those they made 100 by the skin of their teeth.

Unfortunately that's a useless stat though, true or not. Over that time there have been numerous changes in coaching staff and players, even the board. I don't think there's any relevance to it at all, unless you're trying to say the Fremantle footy club is a defensive team just in general nature.
But the changes in coaching staff and drafted talent since 2011 or so have been progressively positive (in my opinion), even considering every time we do make a change (particularly in coaching staff) it sets us back a year or two as natural result.
Looking at it objectively, Ross Lyon actually got us to a grand final faster than any of Clarkson, Simpson, Hardwick... it took the aforementioned years to do it, especially Hardwick. In fact, if you look at all the grand final winners over the last 20 years or so, there are very few who did it faster after being appointed, and most long-term in the role. Club (not just team) stability seems to play an important role in terms of success.
And I don't want to really bring the injury history into it too much, but it needs to be said that although there might have been a couple of teams with a worse injury list than us over the last ten years or so, I doubt there are any who've had problems in that regard over so many successive years as we have. Arguably, it cost Harvey his job, and possibly us a grand final in 2013. It certainly costs us in terms of team cohesion.

So, at risk of sounding a bit like Rachel Hunter Pantene ad here...it won't happen overnight, but it will happen. Just need a few stars to align.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Either JLo gets Freo a Premiership or he gets the sack eventually and Sumich takes over. We win either way.

 

[tonygeeks]

Just watched the presser. Haven't read what anyone had said about it.

But 'there's no point winning the clearances by so much if we can't score!'

Is it just me or is this so simple that it's revolutionary compared to the complicated cobbler jargon RTB used to spin us with???

It's so refreshing to hear pure simple honesty that matches what I'm actually seeing.

Yeah the no BS pressers are my personal preference if I even bother watching at all but in the end if the wins aren't there it'll be this dumb campaigner doesn't have a clue what he's doing blah blah blah

No one ever has a problem with a coaches press conference after a win


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wayToGo_]

We currently have the lowest number of marks i50 in the last decade.

Wouldn't have anything to do with shortened game times? We are 11th for marks inside 50 - I like the effort of your analysis but this is clearly not the major problem we are facing. I'm still not sure what you are trying to prove? I agree with you that our mid-fwd connection needs work and agree it's hard to do when they can't train all together. What I continue to say though is our forwards, even when they get the ball (despite that mid-fwd connection) are turning it over a s**t load more than other teams. These things aren't mutually exclusive. If you still think the only thing that needs fixing is our mid-fwd connection and then we'll magically start scoring as much as the best teams then clearly you are deluded and I will never change your mind.

I think a lot of casual watchers seem to think good teams have a mid kick the ball inside 50, some forward marks it, goes back and kicks a set shot goal, rinse and repeat. West Coast are only 13th for inside 50s and 8th for marks inside 50 (they only have 0.6 more marks i50 per game than we do). Meanwhile they are 4th for forward efficiency and we are way down in 17th spot. The difference really is what they do inside 50 differently to us (ie what their forward line does). They retain the ball and get a heap more shots on goal. There is way too much focus on crossing the 50 metre arc and not enough on what happens after it does.

 

[FreoStillNil]

We don't know how this game plan will end up yet. He has had one part preseason and his whole back line missing. He constantly says we don't score enough even when we win. Just give him a minute.

I probably posted that in the wrong thread. In no way was I having a go at Longmuir. I think what he has done with the backline this year is nothing short of amazing, and this is with how many out? I've lot count.

As others have mentioned get the backline sorted first, which is coming along nicely.

Longmuir is the man for the job. Just suggesting we've never had the firepower up forward (except for Modra for a couple of years and Pav, who was thrown all around the ground out if neccessity). But that is for another thread.

 

[FreoStillNil]

Looking at it objectively, Ross Lyon actually got us to a grand final faster than any of Clarkson, Simpson, Hardwick... it took the aforementioned years to do it, especially Hardwick. In fact, if you look at all the grand final winners over the last 20 years or so, there are very few who did it faster after being appointed, and most long-term in the role. Club (not just team) stability seems to play an important role in terms of success.

Wasn't having a go at Longmuir (see above). He's the man.

Clarkson, Simpson, Hardwick may have taken longer to GET to a Grand Final. But they all have one thing in common. They WON at least one. Multiple except for Simpson.

I'm no Ross hater, he got immediate results and had a team punching above its weight. But as you mentioned it takes time, a long time.

 

[Spirit Level]

I probably posted that in the wrong thread. In no way was I having a go at Longmuir. I think what he has done with the backline this year is nothing short of amazing, and this is with how many out? I've lot count.

As others have mentioned get the backline sorted first, which is coming along nicely.

Longmuir is the man for the job. Just suggesting we've never had the firepower up forward (except for Modra for a couple of years and Pav, who was thrown all around the ground out if neccessity). But that is for another thread.

I seem to remember towards the end of 2003 having Pavlich, Longmuire, Croad, Farmer and Medhurst up there, not too bad on paper!

 

[eastfreo75]

When was the last premiership won by an attack first coach? Please do not say Richmond or the Dogs without thinking about it thoroughly first. All AFL coaches are defence first - if they aren't, they don't last long.

It worked for Knights NOT.