List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[katmanblue]

Chubbs McGovern was no doubt the worst trade that I can remember.

Im not sure hes better than JSOS who plays the same role. And we couldve used the picks for someone else of need.

Or perhaps just keep mcadam

If you aren't sure if he is better than SOS. Perhaps one way to have an idea would be to see how much the opposition respects each. Which defenders they put on each of them.

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[THE_GUN]

Everyone is tradeable for the right price.

What would you think is fair?

Probably something in the 20's from 3 years of out put but probably rated higher by blues fans

 

[THE_GUN]

Give us bolton we will give you dow and a second rounder

I know thats tongue in cheek but would need to get inline as Eagles & Freo are at the front of the line

 

[BlueView]

Where it sits with Dow, there’s no way known we’d be getting a first rounder. If I was to hazard a guess i’de say an early second rounder would be pushing it. Somewhere in the vicinity of 26-35 might entice a club to take the gamble

 

[THE_GUN]

I remember watching Narkle in a final last year and thinking geez this kid is poised and clean.

Would also look sublime in navy blue


As for Dow, I think his deficiencies are still similar although better from when he was drafted. Selling low now doesn’t justify the potential uptick in performance from increased endurance that will come from a few more pre seasons.

I have heard club talk of him as a slow burn.

Will be interesting if he can get his instinct and confidence back after being belted in 18 and 19


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At Richmond if he was traded i could see him playing on the wing for us in a similar type of role we had Grigga play , We still really experimenting since Brandon Ellis left. Would he have the tank to play wing ?

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

At Richmond if he was traded i could see him playing on the wing for us in a similar type of role we had Grigga play , We still really experimenting since Brandon Ellis left. Would he have the tank to play wing ?

Dow's biggest weaknesses at the moment are two-way running and kicking efficiency, so wing would be awful for him at the moment.

I can see a world where he is a fantastic wing, but at the moment the most likely way he makes a name for himself is as an inside clearance specialist, his best asset is his burst from packs which is Dangerfield-esque.

 

[Juddernaut08]

If you aren't sure if he is better than SOS. Perhaps one way to have an idea would be to see how much the opposition respects each. Which defenders they put on each of them.

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When we have Charlie and McKay fit either of them should get the 3rd defender.

Based on output theyre very similar, just that one is constantly dealing with weight issues.

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

Dow's biggest weaknesses at the moment are two-way running and kicking efficiency, so wing would be awful for him at the moment.

I can see a world where he is a fantastic wing, but at the moment the most likely way he makes a name for himself is as an inside clearance specialist, his best asset is his burst from packs which is Dangerfield-esque.

Could Dow turn out like say a jobe Watson? Remember early days his kicking was widely laughed at. Then all of a sudden he is killing it. Just a thought.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Could Dow turn out like say a jobe Watson? Remember early days his kicking was widely laughed at. Then all of a sudden he is killing it. Just a thought.

Not a terrible comparison in terms of rate of development, he only broke out in his 4th year after showing not a lot at the Bombers. Starting from his fourth year he had 11 straight seasons of averaging at least 22 disposals a game.

Will Dow suddenly start getting 20 touches a game next year? I doubt it. But it's way, way too early to be giving up on him.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Could Dow turn out like say a jobe Watson? Remember early days his kicking was widely laughed at. Then all of a sudden he is killing it. Just a thought.

Issue with Dow vs Jobe is he cant seem to find the ball. Jobe from memory didnt have that issue.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Issue with Dow vs Jobe is he cant seem to find the ball. Jobe from memory didnt have that issue.

Just looking at the stats Jobe averaged 2, 11.3 and 11 disposals per game his first 3 years, but that is from a limited sample size having played only 1, 7 and 5 games respectively those years.

 

[FairKouta]

I know thats tongue in cheek but would need to get inline as Eagles & Freo are at the front of the line

Keep him will be elite

 

[BlueView]

Dow's biggest weaknesses at the moment are two-way running and kicking efficiency, so wing would be awful for him at the moment.

I can see a world where he is a fantastic wing, but at the moment the most likely way he makes a name for himself is as an inside clearance specialist, his best asset is his burst from packs which is Dangerfield-esque.

But we don’t often see it, in his first year and to an extent last year we saw those traits. Guy seems devoid of all confidence. I’ve just about put him in the too hard basket. Upside could be huge but so many deficiencies. How can an AFL player miss a target by 15 metres from 30-35 metres away? Every player shanks the odd one but it’s reversion to the mean for Paddy.

On top of that are the endurance issues even Russell will have a hard time rectifying this. It’s a lot of areas he needs to overcome. Confidence, disposal, decision making, endurance. Love for him to prove us all wrong but the odds are against it imo

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

But we don’t often see it, in his first year and to an extent last year we saw those traits. Guy seems devoid of all confidence. I’ve just about put him in the too hard basket. Upside could be huge but so many deficiencies. How can an AFL player miss a target by 15 metres from 30-35 metres away? Every player shanks the odd one but it’s reversion to the mean for Paddy.

On top of that are the endurance issues even Russell will have a hard time rectifying this. It’s a lot of areas he needs to overcome. Confidence, disposal, endurance. Love for him to prove us all wrong but the odds are against it imo

I agree with you, more likely to not make it than to make it at the moment IMO, but his upside is too big to ignore and what we'd get for him in a trade is worth way less than us taking a chance and continuing to develop him.

Weitering also had severe confidence issues during his development after we threw him forward for god knows why, and look at him now. We need Paddy to absolutely smash it in the two's for a while to get some confidence back, like Weitering did.

We are doing him a huge disservice by bringing him in after 2 or 3 good reserves games only to give him no mid time, it's confusing the shit out of him. He had three centre bounce attendances against GWS. Why are we even playing him then? It does my bloody head in. Of course he looks useless when we're playing him in a position where he can't even use what strengths he has.

For me, either we say our season is basically over, let's focus on development and play Dow exclusively in the guts while giving Murphy, Cripps and Ed a rest, or say we still want to win every game and play him in the 2's where he can build some confidence dominating scratch matches like he has been.

No more leaving him to die in a forward pocket and then dropping him because he's not performing, only to bring him back after 2 games cos he's killing it IN THE MIDFIELD and then stranding him in a pocket again. This has been happening since last year and you can see it's destroying him. Enough is enough.

 

[katmanblue]

When we have Charlie and McKay fit either of them should get the 3rd defender.

Based on output theyre very similar, just that one is constantly dealing with weight issues.

I think the forward line operates better with Gov in it.

I reckon H is more like to get double teamed when SOS is playing compared to Gov.

SOS would offer more around the ground especially defensively.



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[katmanblue]

Keep him will be elite

Shhh..don't tell him.

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[Juddernaut08]

I think the forward line operates better with Gov in it.

I reckon H is more like to get double teamed when SOS is playing compared to Gov.

SOS would offer more around the ground especially defensively.



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Interesting but disagree.

If we are allowing doubleteams thats more on our structures and positioning

 

[J-dog]

What part of Dows game makes you want me to be patient with? Is is the fact that he's one positional player. Or is it the fact that he can't kick? Or is it the fact he has no tank?

He's a bust.

Seems mental for Dow atm.
Has played much better for us, but is just ball watching the last 2 games.
Funny, because he busted his arse to get back to the 1s playing good footy but now has poor positioning and zero awareness in the 1s.
Needs time to adapt in 1s coz the 2s are so poor this year but no one is being gifted games so he will likely go back to 2s.
A real lose/lose situation for him. He needs mental resilience to just play out the year doing his best and not take things to heart, then get set for big 2021 with lots of endurance and skills training in off season.
2020 is a bust in many more ways than 1 for all involved.
****ing bullshit year.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Seems mental for Dow atm.
Has played much better for us, but is just ball watching the last 2 games.
Funny, because he busted his arse to get back to the 1s playing good footy but now has poor positioning and zero awareness in the 1s.
Needs time to adapt in 1s coz the 2s are so poor this year but no one is being gifted games so he will likely go back to 2s.
A real lose/lose situation for him. He needs mental resilience to just play out the year doing his best and not take things to heart, then get set for big 2021 with lots of endurance and skills training in off season.
2020 is a bust in many more ways than 1 for all involved.
******* bullshit year.

Like I said earlier in this thread, part of the issue is that we're parking him forward again. He had 3 centre bounce attendances against GWS. What's the point of playing him then? Would rather him playing full time mid in the 2's and getting some confidence up than stranding him in a forward pocket meaning he can't play to his strengths.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Like I said earlier in this thread, part of the issue is that we're parking him forward again. He had 3 centre bounce attendances against GWS. What's the point of playing him then? Would rather him playing full time mid in the 2's and getting some confidence up than stranding him in a forward pocket meaning he can't play to his strengths.

You’re spot on. It’s so obvious.

We’ve drafted him as a midfielder, trained him as a midfielder and played him as a midfielder in the 2s.

Then he gets a go at AFL level and is parked on a HFF? No wonder the kids confidence is shot. He is not a very productive player as it is, that is only amplified on a flank.

Leave him in the middle and let him make his mistakes there. Especially considering finals chances are all but gone.

 

[BlueView]

You’re spot on. It’s so obvious.

We’ve drafted him as a midfielder, trained him as a midfielder and played him as a midfielder in the 2s.

Then he gets a go at AFL level and is parked on a HFF? No wonder the kids confidence is shot. He is not a very productive player as it is, that is only amplified on a flank.

Leave him in the middle and let him make his mistakes there. Especially considering finals chances are all but gone.

Does Paddy being able to play one position have flow on effects with the rest of the team? Maybe, maybe not. SPS has been turned into a defender, Fisher a forward and Cuningham can’t get a look in. Might be a stretch but worth consideration

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

You’re spot on. It’s so obvious.

We’ve drafted him as a midfielder, trained him as a midfielder and played him as a midfielder in the 2s.

Then he gets a go at AFL level and is parked on a HFF? No wonder the kids confidence is shot. He is not a very productive player as it is, that is only amplified on a flank.

Leave him in the middle and let him make his mistakes there. Especially considering finals chances are all but gone.

Reminds me so much of when Weitering was a bit down on form from his debut season so we decided to play him forward and it just made his confidence 1000x worse.

Like Weitering, we need to play Dow play a bunch in the 2's as a mid, let him dominate, get his confidence up, and then when he gets called up PLAY HIM IN THE GUTS.

 

[Eiffel 65]

800k? Source on that?

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It was brought up when Mark Ricciuto was discussing the departures of players from Adelaide a while back.

Young took exception to Ricciuto's comments on Wednesday, particularly those about McGovern, in which Ricciuto said: "He's [McGovern's] got what we want, we love people that contest in the forward line and [have] got plenty of speed – we need speed in the forward line – but, once again, [at] 800-and-something thousand [dollars]. Has he delivered for Carlton yet? No. [We're] comfortable that he went."

Crows chairman tries to settle ruffled feathers

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto is adamant he "wasn’t trying to have a crack" at ex-Crows Mitch McGovern and Jake Lever as player manager Colin Young hit back.

www.theage.com.au

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Does Paddy being able to play one position have flow on effects with the rest of the team? Maybe, maybe not. SPS has been turned into a defender, Fisher a forward and Cuningham can’t get a look in. Might be a stretch but worth consideration

Cuningham can absolutely get a look in, only not playing ATM because of injury.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

It was brought up when Mark Ricciuto was discussing the departures of players from Adelaide a while back.

Young took exception to Ricciuto's comments on Wednesday, particularly those about McGovern, in which Ricciuto said: "He's [McGovern's] got what we want, we love people that contest in the forward line and [have] got plenty of speed – we need speed in the forward line – but, once again, [at] 800-and-something thousand [dollars]. Has he delivered for Carlton yet? No. [We're] comfortable that he went."

Crows chairman tries to settle ruffled feathers

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto is adamant he "wasn’t trying to have a crack" at ex-Crows Mitch McGovern and Jake Lever as player manager Colin Young hit back.

www.theage.com.au

Pretty sure it's been said that Gov's contract maxes out at 800k if he hits a bunch of incentives (which I doubt he has). Read somewhere his base contract is closer to 600k, which still isn't ideal but no where near as bad as what Roo is making it out to be. He's just trying to save face.