Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’

[Cuzz09]

i think even the 2018 flag was so unexpected maybe the whole club doesnt know how to be the hunted properly.

Every side lifts v us and we generally do alright but for huge amounts of each match (even wins) we look horrible and just do enough to get it done.

Reckon its hugely mental.

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[Pulsedriver]

Doctor: Luke Shuey is fine to play in this must win game that is currently a 15 point margin.

Adam Simpson: Thanks doctor. I will bench my captain because you’re obviously wrong.

Goodness me. Pot him for “resting” Nic Nat one post then bag him for not overruling the medicos and resting Shuey in the next?

Simpson gambled and lost. The medico only advises, while Simpson makes the call. Simpson made the wrong call on Shuey.

Gambled and lost on Nic too.

Nic and Shuey's circumstances were different. Did I not mention flexibility rather than rigidity wrt plans earlier in the thread? So why are you taking a one size fits all approach to Nic and Shuey with a comment like: "Goodness me. Pot him for “resting” Nic Nat one post then bag him for not overruling the medicos and resting Shuey in the next?"

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Simpson gambled and lost. The medico only advises, while Simpson makes the call. Simpson made the wrong call on Shuey.

Gambled and lost on Nic too.

Nic and Shuey's circumstances were different. Did I not mention flexibility rather than rigidity wrt plans earlier in the thread? So why are you taking a one size fits all approach to Nic and Shuey with a comment like: "Goodness me. Pot him for “resting” Nic Nat one post then bag him for not overruling the medicos and resting Shuey in the next?"

Might shock you to learn Adam Simpson isn’t a doctor.

If the doctor ticks Shuey off to return, no coach in football in a close must win game is overruling that. There’s no gamble. Simmo isn’t going to give Shuey a quick reexamination. The doctor said he can play, it makes no difference, so Simpson was fine with that.

Ultimately the buck stops with him so it’s good to see him take the blame, that’s good leadership. However, the situation you’re describing where Simpson overrules the medico about his captain in a 15 point game is farcical. It won’t ever happen, and it’s hindsight personified.

Now, Nic or the medicos are saying he’s too tight to play, and Simmo goes yep let’s be safe and take him out. Simpson’s fault again, because you don’t believe that happened, you believe Simmo is lying to save face about some scheme he refused to deviate from.

Remarkable stance on both issues.

 

[Godfather32]

Doctor: Luke Shuey is fine to play in this must win game that is currently a 15 point margin.

Adam Simpson: Thanks doctor. I will bench my captain because you’re obviously wrong.

Goodness me. Pot him for “resting” Nic Nat one post then bag him for not overruling the medicos and resting Shuey in the next?

I'm still pissed at him for the fairybread party fiasco of 2016

 

[HoneyBadger35]

This thread is phenomenal reading if you followed it from the start.

At full swing in early 2017. Simpson can’t coach, good assistant but bad head coach, can’t make adjustments, will never take us to a flag.

Also in the thread at that time; list is s**t, inflexible, desperate for a rebuild, need to play the kids because we’re going nowhere, no coach could succeed with this much deadwood.

Now, after winning the flag in 2018 when most people had us bottom four, suddenly the list was always incredible, superstar list, Simpson is wasteful if we don’t get at least two flags from it. This is a list with the same spine, and the same key pillars, as it was in 2017 when we needed to tear it down.

It’s good to want more, it’s good to be hungry for more success. Hand waving away our team’s triumphs is embarrassing. It’s ******* hard to win a flag, let alone a flag from WA, let alone two. If we do that he’s immediately our greatest coach of all time and destroying the competition in that area.

Not much room for error when you’re one flag away from greatest coach ever but if you don’t get it you’re perennial underachiever.

Of the competing clubs I think there’s maybe two who are safer than Simpson, and league wide I think probably four max?

 

[Jootube]

Shuey, Yeo and NicNat missing. Eagles of 2019 lose this game by 10 goals.

Insane that people question Simpson (at this stage).

 

[Pulsedriver]

Might shock you to learn Adam Simpson isn’t a doctor.

Simpson doesn't need to be a doctor to have a basic understanding wrt risk management.

If the doctor ticks Shuey off to return, no coach in football in a close must win game is overruling that.

In your opinion.

There’s no gamble. Simmo isn’t going to give Shuey a quick reexamination. The doctor said he can play, it makes no difference, so Simpson was fine with that.

Of course there's a gamble. It was known at 3qrt time that Shuey wasn't a 100%. Simpson sent Shuey on to help save the game. It backfired.

Ultimately the buck stops with him so it’s good to see him take me blame, but the situation you’re describing where Simpson overrules the medico about his captain in a 15 point game is farcical. It won’t ever happen, and it’s hindsight personified.

You can only assume my position was made in hindsight, as you have no way of knowing that I wanted him to be taken off when he was put back on in the last quarter. Btw, it's not farcical, as Simpson knew Shuey wasn't 100%. He gambled that Shuey would make it through the game without further injury and lost. Why are you playing defense for a bad call?

Now the Nic or the medicos are saying he’s too tight to play, and Simmo goes yep let’s be safe and take him out.

Until more is known, your comment is based on an assumption.

Simpson’s fault again, because you don’t believe that happened, you believes Simmo is lying to save face

This is a strawman. I said Simpson has an incentive to lie. I haven't stated that Simpson lied, so why are you making s**t up as to what I believe?

 

[Monocle]

This thread is phenomenal reading if you followed it from the start.

At full swing in early 2017. Simpson can’t coach, good assistant but bad head coach, can’t make adjustments, will never take us to a flag.

Also in the thread at that time; list is sh*t, inflexible, desperate for a rebuild, need to play the kids because we’re going nowhere, no coach could succeed with this much deadwood.

Now, after winning the flag in 2018 when most people had us bottom four, suddenly the list was always incredible, superstar list, Simpson is wasteful if we don’t get at least two flags from it. This is a list with the same spine, and the same key pillars, as it was in 2017 when we needed to tear it down.

It’s good to want more, it’s good to be hungry for more success. Hand waving away our team’s triumphs is embarrassing. It’s ******* hard to win a flag, let alone a flag from WA, let alone two. If we do that he’s immediately our greatest coach of all time and destroying the competition in that area.

Not much room for error when you’re one flag away from greatest coach ever but if you don’t get it you’re perennial underachiever.

Of the competing clubs I think there’s maybe two who are safer than Simpson, and league wide I think probably four max?

Be that as it may Badger, surely you cant be happy with our teams application the last two years, when we s**t the bed at critical moments.

 

[woosha24]

Be that as it may Badger, surely you cant be happy with our teams application the last two years, when we sh*t the bed at critical moments.

This is what makes me the most upset. We have the cattle to win tight do-or-die matches. We have the gameplan to win tight do-or-die matches. We know this because we did it in 2018. Multiple times, up to and including the grand final.

But since then we just.....dont. When the going gets tough, we get going. Take tonight for example: multiple attempts to ice the game after the doggies left the door open for us aaaaaallllll night, as we just couldnt/ wouldnt do it.

Considering the names we have on the list, thats just not good enough. I dont know if its a mental thing or a hunger thing or what, but it doesnt appear to be being addressed. And its frustrating as a supporter to watch, especially as we're watching our 2020 season go the exact same way as our 2019 season right now. Yes we're in a condensed fixture. Yes the dogs had a bye. But as cliched as it is to say, teams who want the ultimate success find ways to win. We havent wanted to do that for nearly 2 seasons now, and all we can do as supporters is scratch our heads and ask why.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Be that as it may Badger, surely you cant be happy with our teams application the last two years, when we sh*t the bed at critical moments.

Do we? This seems to be one of the ever moving goalposts, where wins don’t count because of course we should win, and losses are dissected and weaponised against whoever we want to blame that week.

For example: the Hawks game of late 2019 was proof we don’t have mettle, with disregard to the ridiculous slog of a win in the rain at the MCG against the same Hawks team weeks prior.

The Pies beat us a by a point at home because we can’t go with the best teams, but we smacked them at the G earlier in the year.

We won an elimination final by nearly ten goals, then went to Vic to play first on the ladder Geelong. Right before the game we got sucker punched with the Willie Rioli news. Eagles started in a big scoring hole then clawed back to hit the front in that game. We lost on the road in a brutal game between two great teams, but we showed resilience and fight that doesn’t come close to s**t the bed territory.

You’re not going to win every game. If this game is proof we s**t the bed then what was the Geelong win when we were down four goals? Or last week when we did what 90% of the games have been between top four contenders and fringe finalists, and just held Essendon at bay.

Under Simpson we’ve rarely “s**t the bed”. 2015 GF stands out no doubt, at the G against the most experienced side. A side we thumped three weeks prior.

When every win is expected because we’re meant to be top tier, and every loss is shitting the bed, there’s very little margin for error. Our loss to the Tigers, who started the game kicking 14.0, on travel and a four day break, with no Josh Kennedy for 90% of the game is not shitting the bed, it was just a tough result but we bused our ass throughout.

If Bont’s goal had been adjudicated a point and we win, is today shitting the bed or is it a really ugly day at the office but we ground out a hard fought victory missing our three best mids?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

This is what makes me the most upset. We have the cattle to win tight do-or-die matches. We have the gameplan to win tight do-or-die matches. We know this because we did it in 2018. Multiple times, up to and including the grand final.

But since then we just.....dont. When the going gets tough, we get going.

 

[Kellythatsit]

from what i understand every team has done this sh*t schedule. its just our turn.

Yeah, but the first footy frenzy had teams play each other off similar, if not the same, turn around. I don’t know how many other teams have had to come of 3x5 day breaks in a row while our opponent has had 9 days. Be interesting to find out, particularly clubs currently looking for a spot in the finals.

Richmond, for example, played teams with similar recovery times during their compressed fixture.

Similarly, both WC and Carlton had their bye the week before they played each other.

 

[Kellythatsit]

I want him gone. Doesn't change anything. Why was NN rested for?

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[Kellythatsit]

I think Simmo has another flag in him.

2 time flag winner at NM

2 time flag winner as coach?

3 years between flags at NM

WCE 2021 FLAG?

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We can still win this year, let alone 2021.

 

[Monocle]

If Bont’s goal had been adjudicated a point and we win, is today shitting the bed or is it a really ugly day at the office but we ground out a hard fought victory missing our three best mids?

The adjudication of the point is neither here or there, because it should have never got to that.
Whats the umpires decide we cant control... s**t happens.

However the following are examples ( for me ) of shitting the bed moments:

Darling yips.... ain't pressure a funny thing.

Darlings Pele moment.. playing hero's not team mates, with a low % play.

Kennedy the brain fart when we were five points up and had the ball had momentum and he thinks he is Judd ... plays on HTB and a turn around Smith goal.

McGovern made a name for himself in the 2018 grand final by being attacking and taking the mark that changed the game.
Tonight he didn't do that late in the third he did't attack the ball, rather he did a low percentage knock on.

Now, sure I get that we are not going to nail every opportunity, but tonight and not for the first time we fluffed our lines, thats called composure and when you don't have it, thats when you get accused of shitting the bed.

And tonight was a game that really mattered in the scheme of where we finished... win we make top four, wow that a tantalising prospect.

Conversely Doggies win tonight they remain in finals contention.

I think we witnessed tonight who wanted the win more.........and it wasn't us.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

The adjudication of the point is neither here or there, because it should have never got to that.
Whats the umpires decide we cant control... sh*t happens.

However the following are for me shitting the bed moments:

Darling yips.

Darlings Pele moment.. playing hero's not team mates, with a low % play.

Kennedy the brain fart when we were five points up and had the ball had momentum and he thinks he is Judd ... plays on HTB and a turn around Smith goal.

McGovern made a name for himself in the 2018 grand final by being attacking and taking the mark that changed the game.
Tonight he didn't do that late in the third he did't attack the ball, rather he did a low percentage knock on.

Now we are not going to nail every opportunity, but tonight and not for the first time we fluffed our lines, thats called composure and when you don't have it, thats when you get accused of shitting the bed.

And tonight was a game that really mattered in the scheme of where we finished... win we make top four, wow that a tantalising prospect.

Conversely Doggies win tonight they remain in finals contention.

I think we witnessed tonight who wanted the win more.........and it wasn't us.

Yeah, today was piss poor and I don’t believe I’ve tried to defend it. We had ample opportunity to steal a game that a more accurate opponent would have put to bed in the first half, because of how poorly our mids played. The fact we were even close was a courtesy afforded to us by the Dogs, more than it had anything to do with any great triumphs of our own.

My point in all of this is that not every loss needs to be a referendum on Adam Simpson. People often level claims at him of failing to do x or y, but then hand wave the counter examples away.

We always lose to the good teams, except for when we don’t. We always lose do-or-die games, except the finals we win but they don’t count. The finals we lose prove we can’t do it when it matters. It’s all very convenient, and it’s pretty hard to judge a guy fairly when the criteria is ever shifting.

If no regular season wins count, but regular season losses do, and also the finals you win too easily don’t count but the close finals you lose do, then I don’t see how any coach in footy comes away looking good.

The Lions were new to being good last year but if they go straight sets again this year - that’s shitting the bed.

The Cats have been a powerhouse for years but constantly lose key finals and “only” have one flag under Chris Scott.

The Pies were minutes away from the highest heights and are now battling to make the 8.

The Crows were the best team in footy when this thread was started and look at them now.

It’s very difficult to find a team or coach that meets the standards some people have here. Richmond, who have been relevant for three completed seasons after decades of embarrassing mediocrity, are the closest I can get, and even their fans wanted Dimma sacked for years. Footy fans are a tough crowd to please and always think the grass is greener without realising their neighbours are probably doing the same.

 

[BrotherDodge]

Jesus, people. We were missing three AA players in Yeo, Hurn and Naitanui and our Norm Smith-winning captain in Shuey, and still almost won. Get them all back for finals and we're as good a chance as anyone. More than most years, this will probably come down to dumb luck in the end. If Martin, Neale or Dangerfield do a hammy their team is cooked too.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

This thread is phenomenal reading if you followed it from the start.

At full swing in early 2017. Simpson can’t coach, good assistant but bad head coach, can’t make adjustments, will never take us to a flag.

Also in the thread at that time; list is sh*t, inflexible, desperate for a rebuild, need to play the kids because we’re going nowhere, no coach could succeed with this much deadwood.

Now, after winning the flag in 2018 when most people had us bottom four, suddenly the list was always incredible, superstar list, Simpson is wasteful if we don’t get at least two flags from it. This is a list with the same spine, and the same key pillars, as it was in 2017 when we needed to tear it down.

It’s good to want more, it’s good to be hungry for more success. Hand waving away our team’s triumphs is embarrassing. It’s ******* hard to win a flag, let alone a flag from WA, let alone two. If we do that he’s immediately our greatest coach of all time and destroying the competition in that area.

Not much room for error when you’re one flag away from greatest coach ever but if you don’t get it you’re perennial underachiever.

Of the competing clubs I think there’s maybe two who are safer than Simpson, and league wide I think probably four max?

I feel like my thread creation was justified at the time and the OP seems spot on to me.

Only a nuffy would be calling for Simmo’s head or claiming that he’s done a poor job. One of the best leaders overall in the league.

 

[russ]

i *en hate this season and hate the game in it's current incarnation. reall really dissociated from the whole thing atm, and sure it should have never got to the point where the mcgovern touch on the bontempelli goal should have been the deciding factor, but it was, and the absolute amateur hour of a competition it is showed itself for what it is again. that and neslon being pinged by the *en plucka duck chook lotto that is picking and choosing free kicks that we haven't seen all season and probably won't see again, plus the darling free FOR US which was also inexplicable, really makes me want to walk away from the game which makes me furious & upset that something I loved so much growing up is that far removed from the product it once was. along with the unshakeable feeling that there IS a conspiracy against us, i have no doubt that there is.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I feel like my thread creation was justified at the time and the OP seems spot on to me.

Only a nuffy would be calling for Simmo’s head or claiming that he’s done a poor job. One of the best leaders overall in the league.

I’m not meaning to call out its creation.

My point more was when you read what was being said at the time, it was that the list was an aging tear down job of no hopers.

Win a flag in 2018 and now suddenly it’s a powerhouse list that Simmo has wasted.

Tough gig.

 

[russ]

* this s**t show of a season 6 goal to 7 bullshit

 

[Kellythatsit]

Shuey, Yeo and NicNat missing. Eagles of 2019 lose this game by 10 goals.

Insane that people question Simpson (at this stage).

This. People comparing us to our 2019 form forget how truly s**t we were then.

Since round 5 we’ve lost 2 games and both of those games could quite easily have been wins.

I get that we’re all pissed to have lost such a close one but throwing your arms up and declaring it season over is less than soft.

Despite everything going wrong at the worst possible time, we’re still in the the thick of it. We have players returning over the next 2 rounds, and barring further injury, we will be firing on all cylinders again come finals.

It will be a finals campaign unlike we have ever had before so who knows what can happen. Even if worst comes to worst, this will be our best chance to go all the way from outside top 4.

 

[Duggo81]

When two of your senior players have brain farts by being cute it sets a poor example.

1. McGovern with the cute little knock on and misses the target ... Mcpherson goals.... late in the third

2. We are one goal up Kennedy thinks he is 23 and tries to be cute and run around a player on his mark, cute.... got caught and the resulting free goes straight down to then for a goal...... late in the fourth.

You go down by two points and it's critical decisions like these two that come back and bit you on the arse.

Yep and you can add to that a needless block by Rotham and a running too far FA by Nelson. Just 1 more that were absolutely unecesary.

We didn't deserve to win the game but easily could have

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[Coasters7]

Jesus, people. We were missing three AA players in Yeo, Hurn and Naitanui and our Norm Smith-winning captain in Shuey, and still almost won. Get them all back for finals and we're as good a chance as anyone. More than most years, this will probably come down to dumb luck in the end. If Martin, Neale or Dangerfield do a hammy their team is cooked too.

No ones doubting that, but it’s the same as last year. We need to be top 4 to have any real shot (I think we can win a qualifying final against Brisbane or Port) but literally every result that could go against us is (not by much either), and the moment we slip up the slightest bit it cooks the season.

If we made top 4 with our full 22 I’d back us in for sure, but its going to be the same s**t where we effectively miss it by that one result we lost by less than 5 points or that one Richmond loss, and we’re climbing uphill the whole way. While Richmond, who have been just as arsey and not a whole lot more convincing, will take our spot out of dumb luck and cruise to another flag.

Such a frustrating team to follow over the last few seasons because we haven’t been bad at all, inconsistent yes, but we just haven’t really had the fall of the ball in the arsey games you don’t deserve to win but could have (that every other top 4 team has had this year).

It’s hard to put into words but it’s just the smallest things that show you how hard it is to win flags. I’d back us in to show up for finals but we just aren’t going to be in a position to do it again and we’re going to be the 5th team pushed out of the 4 (when there’s likely going to be another 1 or 2 straight sets exits that are clogging it up again).

 

[BrotherDodge]

Such a frustrating team to follow over the last few seasons because we haven’t been bad at all, inconsistent yes, but we just haven’t really had the fall of the ball in the arsey games you don’t deserve to win but could have (that every other top 4 team has had this year)

It’s hard to put into words but it’s just the smallest things that show you how hard it is to win flags. I’d back us in to show up for finals but we just aren’t going to be in a position to do it again and we’re going to be the 5th team pushed out of the 4 (when there’s likely going to be another 1 or 2 straight sets exits that are clogging it up again).

Yeah I get what you mean. But I reckon it's a weak top 4 this year- does anyone really think Port or Brisbane are a premiership side? It'll be Richmond, Geelong or us, and if we can string a few good weeks together we're still every chance from 5th.