List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Stamos]

I really hope the AFL do provide list sizes ASAP.

It's really poor that they haven't sorted this out yet.
The coaches obviously aren't happy about it.

 

[Arr0w]

Tim Kelly was 23 when he played his first game.

Tim Kelly's issues weren't around not being able to play the game, nor not being elite

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

If they do reduce sizes then I think they also have to reduce the 3 pick minimum (inc rookie upgrade). Maybe it goes to 2 required picks, we upgrade Gibbons to the senior list and take 1 pick.

I cant see them reducing list sizes this late in the year, clubs are well into the planning stages for next year with resigning, drafting, trades etc. If this was going to happen they would have let clubs know a long time ago.

 

[AB_Blue]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

Cerra!


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[bigm386]

It's really poor that they haven't sorted this out yet.
The coaches obviously aren't happy about it.

I am thinking the rumours will be true and its down 5 so around 8 changes total required at a minimum.

It would likely mean we would have to retire Kruzer and Simpson and fringe players like Goddard and Lang would be delisted.

I doubt we would have as many players in development that are not AFL ready think your Ben Silvagni's, Finbar etc.

Players like Marchbank and McCreadie who have had injury issues also become a big question mark if you can't carry as many players. Also players with some currency might be traded to open up list space eg Levi Casboult.

It's honestly just sad to think about.

I hope the senior list size drops but players can be retained in the new development league somehow. Because the current VFL system seems practically gone also.

 

[Stamos]

I am thinking the rumours will be true and its down 5 so around 8 changes total required at a minimum.

If they make those cuts, they'll reduce or remove the minimum number of draftees for this year, especially give how compromised this draft is with no U18s, and next year having U19s.

Also, Marchy just signed a new contract.

 

[Banga19]

Playing as a 19 year old in his second season under Bolts (rounds 1-11 2019 as a midfielder) Dow averaged 17.45 touches and had 5 20+ disposal games. Perfectly fine for a 2nd year mid. Clearly has much to work on and his confidence looks shot currently.

Don't mind that he is a one position player, because it's the position we need. Hopefully the club can offer him whatever he needs to regain his confidence and belief in himself, and hopefully he can have a big pre season. Come on Paddy!

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[ItsAllAboutMe]

Cerra!


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He has shown glimpses, but so has Paddy.. Is probably more advanced and been given more opportunity. Cerra has played 13 more games than Paddy and is averaging 15.1 disposals & 0.2 goals a game v Pady 13.9 & 0.4.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

WHo are definite outs at the end of the year?

Lang, Goddard - are there any other true cloggers on the list still?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Some players take until 23-25 before showing anything

Totally agree but they are the exception to the rule. Dow for instance isn’t a problem in isolation, the thing I worry about is that we are probably hoping for half a dozen to be that exception to the rule.

 

[HBF]

Some players take until 23-25 before showing anything

Thats true, but Dow has so many aspects of his game to work on that I fear he just doesn't have what it takes to make it.

Tim Kelly was 23 when he played his first game.

Not that many Tim Kelly's out there.

 

[HBF]

WHo are definite outs at the end of the year?

Lang, Goddard - are there any other true cloggers on the list still?

Finbar

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Finbar

Well that's three then, not taking into account retirements. If this were an ordinary year we'd get there on that alone.

It still astounds me that the AFL is considering cutting lists sizes.

How about we do the grandfinal in Perth were you're likely to get tens of millions more dollars because you'll have up to 60,000 actual fans paying $400 plus, whereas in brisbane you're likely to have 10k fans and 20k free tickets handed out if Brisbane arent there (and even still).

The money the AFL could have made by having the game in Perth could have easily covered the cost of retinaing lists at the same size.

I feel for players like Fraser Phillips or Matty Kreuzer who couldfind themselves off of a list because of the actions of Gil.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

WHo are definite outs at the end of the year?

Lang, Goddard - are there any other true cloggers on the list still?

Simpson, Betts, Lang, Moore, Goddard I would say are 100% gone.

50/50 would be Kruezar, Odwyer, BSOS, Polson, Owies, Kennedy - If list sizes drop i would expect all of these to go.

if not 5 definite, and I would say 3 of the others will go probably Owies, Kennedy & Polson most likely. So 8 changes, gives us a fair amount of room to use both trade and draft.

 

[skadoosh]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

I would say why does it matter that the rest of his cohort aren't playing well? Obviously your point is...we could have drafted someone else and they still wouldn't be playing very well, but that's a poor way of evaluating performance.

The question is why hasn't Dow developed to expectations and how do we get him there?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I would say why does it matter that the rest of his cohort aren't playing well? Obviously your point is...we could have drafted someone else and they still wouldn't be playing very well, but that's a poor way of evaluating performance.

The question is why hasn't Dow developed to expectations and how do we get him there?

The point is that it could be a shit draft and there's no point comparing him to Walsh's draft etc

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I would say why does it matter that the rest of his cohort aren't playing well? Obviously your point is...we could have drafted someone else and they still wouldn't be playing very well, but that's a poor way of evaluating performance.

The question is why hasn't Dow developed to expectations and how do we get him there?

No my point is we all expected Dow to become an A grade quality midfielder based on his draft position at 3... Not all drafts are equal.. If it was 2016 we would have Hugh Mcclugage or if it was 2018 and we wanted a midfielder we would have Bailey Smith instead of Dow... But to me the 2017 draft is looking extremly meek and so expecting Dow to be elite because he was pick 3 is unfair, and its unfair to blame our recruiters for a 'bust' when the rest of the cohort are not any better.

 

[AB_Blue]

He has shown glimpses, but so has Paddy.. Is probably more advanced and been given more opportunity. Cerra has played 13 more games than Paddy and is averaging 15.1 disposals & 0.2 goals a game v Pady 13.9 & 0.4.

What about DE % ?


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[FairKouta]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

Clark will be a beast. Wish we took him

 

[Jeremias]

I'm not holding my breath.

That's fine and it may just be that he doesn't make the grade.

But to make that call at 20 is way, way too premature.

 

[Brackets]

He's a 20 year old kid who has played some good senior footy already, but who has recently been shuffled around on the field and struggled through a few injuries.

He may not make it but at this stage he is absolutely not a bust. He's a young developing kid.

Schumacher too was a young developing kid. The only thing stopping Dow following in his footsteps is our investment in him.

Dow doesn't have the tank to play midfield, and his defensive efforts are a liability wherever we try to hide him on field.

The Lions copped the loss in value and turned Schache into Bailey, who is contributing weekly for them. We need to do the same with Dow.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Schumacher too was a young developing kid. The only thing stopping Dow following in his footsteps is our investment in him.

Dow doesn't have the tank to play midfield, and his defensive efforts are a liability wherever we try to hide him on field.

The Lions copped the loss in value and turned Schache into Bailey, who is contributing weekly for them. We need to do the same with Dow.

What would you expect to get out of Dow at the trade table? And what would you do with it if it is a draft pick?

 

[bigm386]

Simpson, Betts, Lang, Moore, Goddard I would say are 100% gone.

50/50 would be Kruezar, Odwyer, BSOS, Polson, Owies, Kennedy - If list sizes drop i would expect all of these to go.

if not 5 definite, and I would say 3 of the others will go probably Owies, Kennedy & Polson most likely. So 8 changes, gives us a fair amount of room to use both trade and draft.

I doubt Polson will go due to a list need and BSOS I'd a long term project who the club seem bullish on. Kennedy wouldn't be delisted I don't think.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Levi go before those three if list cuts are a fact. He wouldn't be delisted or traded otherwise but with Curnow waiting in the wings might be a casualty of list cuts?

Moore would go. Simpson, Kruzer and Betts retire. Finbar, Goddard, Lang and possibly someone like McCreadie sadly.

7 changes right there.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I doubt Polson will go due to a list need and BSOS I'd a long term project who the club seem bullish on. Kennedy wouldn't be delisted I don't think.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Levi go before those three if list cuts are a fact. He wouldn't be delisted or traded otherwise but with Curnow waiting in the wings might be a casualty of list cuts?

Moore would go. Simpson, Kruzer and Betts retire. Finbar, Goddard, Lang and possibly someone like McCreadie sadly.

7 changes right there.

On Polson it probably depends on who we bring in and draft, you don't keep 23yo on your list who have been on the list for 4 years and are clearly not in your best 22, you turn them over and replace with an 18 yo.

Levi has a contract for next year, not written but has reached the trigger clause which guarantees him a spot, although I wouldnt be surprised if he is put up for trade and if there is any interest we let him go.. But I have thought that for the past 4 years and he continues to prove me wrong

 

[Jeremias]

Schumacher too was a young developing kid. The only thing stopping Dow following in his footsteps is our investment in him.

We're not really comparing Dow and Schumacher are we?

Dow was tracking very well until the middle of last season when he was moved out of position and then has had a few injury issues.

I'm giving him more time to recover from that.

The Lions copped the loss in value and turned Schache into Bailey, who is contributing weekly for them. We need to do the same with Dow.

I wasn't aware Dow has suggested he is home sick. When did that occur?