Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

[SaintsSeptember]

8 new cases in Queensland.

If the AFL had any credibility and consistency they would move the grand final to Adelaide - TODAY!

They moved AFL games out of Victoria and NSW because of community transmission. So why are they still playing AFL in SE Queensland?

Oh I know. So Gil and all the AFL staffers, their families, grand parents, and kids swimming teachers can live it up in the Mercure resort and get out of East Germany.

It's disgraceful.

Take a chill pill.
a) The AFL players in Queensland are not generally mixing with the population. Except some who got in big trouble.
b) 29 active cases in Queensland . ALL OF QUEENSLAND :/
c) Why does this put the AFL at any risk: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-09/coronavirus-case-ipswich-student-st-edmunds-college/12620292
d) You are being silly.

 

[campbell]

Take a chill pill.
a) The AFL players in Queensland are not generally mixing with the population. Except some who got in big trouble.
b) 29 active cases in Queensland . ALL OF QUEENSLAND :/
c) Why does this put the AFL at any risk: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-09/coronavirus-case-ipswich-student-st-edmunds-college/12620292
d) You are being silly.

Yep, all community,all known clusters.
One is a family in quarantine.

Goodness the sky is falling.

 

[campbell]

They are traced back to clusters.

But it's still community transmission and therefore the grand final should be moved to a COVID free state in SA.

Ye na....
Goodness.

 

[Crankitup]

The government knows exactly where the outbreak has come from ....

Actually they've been remarkably vague. Maybe you missed this part.

“Cases linked to the North Melbourne towers have links to other cases across Melbourne, including the North Melbourne family outbreak.” “It is not clear which direction the virus was transmitted in. In many cases, we will never know for sure how large clusters began and the order in which the virus spread,” he said. Asked what the link between the clusters was, and whether members of the family outbreak lived in the towers, the spokesman said: “We won’t be able to provide that level of detailed response”.

you really think they would miss an opportunity to blame protesters instead of themselves?

If the link to the protests is stronger than what we've been led to believe they are to blame. Can't you see that? Leading into the protests Victoria issued thousands of hefty fines for Covid breaches.

Victoria has issued the most fines for lockdown breaches, while the ACT hasn't fined anyone

Nearly 4,500 Australians have been fined thousands of dollars for breaching social distancing rules.

www.sbs.com.au

Early on when asked what their response to the protest would be, the Premier and others quickly ruled out fines being issued. The day before the event and panic started was setting in as to what might happen (there had been estimates of up to 80,000 likely to attend) the Premier and others issued shrill warnings.

"Big events are not allowed. Big events are not safe. Big events will do nothing but spread the virus,” he said. “This is not an ordinary Saturday in June, we’re in the midst of a global pandemic.” Health authorities are fearful any mass gathering could ignite a second wave of coronavirus in Victoria. National Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy said yesterday protesters flooding the city in defiance of restrictions could quickly spread the deadly coronavirus. Dr Murphy said it was impossible to safely attend a mass gathering of any kind. He said that throughout the crisis he had been “absolutely terrified” of the virus spreading to indigenous communities.

When the first links to BLM were reported, political pressure was brought to bear on the Department to shutdown any such speculation. VACCHO CEO Jill Gallagher for instance ....

VACCHO says a focus on linking the Black Lives Matter rally to Melbourne’s COVID-19 public housing tower cluster is unhelpful during major public health crisis

www.vaccho.org.au

When you consider she and other aboriginal leaders had rejected calls for the protest not to go ahead prior to them happening you can understand why she was quick to poor scorn on any such suggestion.

Harnessing the momentum - why Aboriginal people reject calls to cancel weekend protests

Stop spreading conspiracy garbage.

Which part of my earlier post are you contesting? Which part is conspiracy? The info comes from government.

 

[The 747]

Just as I finished my previous post about the baffling (insane) decision to go with Private Security as the sole gatekeeper of Victoria's quarantine program I found the following quote in an article in The Age

As I said before the very nature of who these guards were, their living arrangements, their cultural backgrounds, their casual work arrangements, their age demographic, their lack of care in regard to testing, their lack of English, etc made the failures of the quarantine program essentially a fait accompli (bad luck had nothing to do with it)

Another Health Department expert, senior medical adviser Dr Clare Looker, told the inquiry in a witness statement that the demographic profile of the private security workforce made it more difficult to control the outbreak.

She said the security guard cohort often worked in multiple jobs and many of the guards that tested positive to COVID-19 lived in large, crowded households.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ies-while-covid-positive-20200824-p55ou8.html
"The workforce was also largely casual and so many had and were required to have more than one job to sustain themselves and/or their families," Dr Looker wrote.

"They were also a young, fit and socially active cohort and tended not to seek testing even if symptomatic until it was required on day 11 of their quarantine period."

By that time, there was transmission within their household, according to the senior health official.

There were also language issues and at times a distrust of government services.
"It was challenging to obtain accurate information," Dr Looker said.

The inquiry heard a positive case who was linked to the Rydges on Swanston outbreak lied to contact tracers, and did not tell investigators they had a housemate.

Another infected person told contact tracers he lived alone, but he was in fact sharing a room with someone else.

Yes but there are some things to note here:

• If guards were lying to the Government that is not something the Government can be blamed for.
• The demographic profile of security guards is also not a Government failure. That is known because the pay is shitty.
• Casualised work is the nature of our society and is a collective failure by all of us.

What the more important questions are:

Why private security was used and at whose recommendation - this looks to be VicPol but good luck holding them accountable for anything - what were the other inputs into the decision and who made the decision.

Second question is did the guards disobey the guidelines or were the guidelines themselves inadequate, will be interesting to find out.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes but there are some things to note here:

• If guards were lying to the Government that is not something the Government can be blamed for.
• The demographic profile of security guards is also not a Government failure. That is known because the pay is shitty.
• Casualised work is the nature of our society and is a collective failure by all of us.

What the more important questions are:

Why private security was used and at whose recommendation - this looks to be VicPol but good luck holding them accountable for anything - what were the other inputs into the decision and who made the decision.

Second question is did the guards disobey the guidelines or were the guidelines themselves inadequate, will be interesting to find out.

They have spoken about training, but its pretty easy to call bullshit on that one.
Unless they didn't know what the word Quarantine means, which is always possible.

 

[jatz14]

If you're coming into contact with aerosolized virus, wearing a mask is just a bit better than pointless without sealed goggles and a tyvek suit. The virus can enter through your eyes and lives on surfaces up to 9 days. Even then, unless you go through a decontamination shower while taking all this gear off, you will infect yourself. It's spread through contact in urine and feces so public toilets are contaminated easily. Likewise elevator buttons, every door handle, pretty much everything is potentially contaminated.

View attachment 956690

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Well, good thing that it's been well known that the main benefit is stopping the infected spreading the virus, rather than the uninfected catching it.

And the greatest benefit at all is when both infected and uninfected wear them.

95% protection from a french study if I recall (memory only).

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jatz14]

As i've always understood it, a mask, and especially some of the lightweight bandanna's and things, won't protect you much against any virus that is absorbed within the water vapour in the air. Certainly people who think they can do whatever they want because they have a mask on are way off.
It actually stops the wearer from spreading it , more than it stops the wearer from catching it.
Simple example : Sneeze into the air vs sneeze into a cloth. Some of it will go through, but the cloth catches a fair bit. So what it catches is virus that doesn't get into the air.

It's the water droplets the masks filter.

Or to put it more accurately, mucous, snot, phlegm droplets, that contain the virus.

And it's not just how much of the sneeze or cough a mask catches, but the velocity.

A sneeze sends droplets meters, but if it's through a mask, they only go centimeters.

I think this point should be made more of. You catch Covid when you breath in small droplets of spit and snot from infected people.

A N95 mask isn't a virus filter, it's a snot filter.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crankitup]

Well, good thing that it's been well known that the main benefit is stopping the infected spreading the virus, rather than the uninfected catching it.

And the greatest benefit at all is when both infected and uninfected wear them.

There is some vision that showed that while listening to speeches there were sections of the crowd where many people were using masks (most of them not N95 standard) but when they were chanting, many pulled them down below their mouths. If only half of them (5000) had to use limited toilets during the couple of hours they were in the CBD that's a lot of opportunity for virus spread through touching surfaces (doors, tap handles etc) anyway.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's the water droplets the masks filter.

Or to put it more accurately, mucous, snot, phlegm droplets, that contain the virus.

And it's not just how much of the sneeze or cough a mask catches, but the velocity.

A sneeze sends droplets meters, but if it's through a mask, they only go centimeters.

I think this point should be made more of. You catch Covid when you breath in small droplets of spit and snot from infected people.

A N95 mask isn't a virus filter, it's a snot filter.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

I demand the right to breathe snot from strangers. You can't stop me.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Yep, all community,all known clusters.
One is a family in quarantine.

Goodness the sky is falling.

No need to move it as it stands. But you'd hope the AFL has a contingency in place should it start to spread.

 

[dont bowl there]

No need to move it as it stands. But you'd hope the AFL has a contingency in place should it start to spread.

They do. It’s Adelaide.

 

[kranger]

Seems like the WA Government think they are doing a good job by closing the border, and the economy doing better as a result

Media statements | Western Australian Government

Media statements

www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au

 

[Forward Press]

Seems like the WA Government think they are doing a good job by closing the border, and the economy doing better as a result

Media statements | Western Australian Government

Media statements

www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au

Relevant quotes:

ABS National Accounts data released last week showed Western Australia's domestic economy was the only State to experience growth for the 2019-20 year, growing 1.1 per cent. This was the fastest growth in seven years and highlights the strength of the Western Australian economy prior to COVID 19.

States with open borders faired significantly worse than those with closed borders in the June quarter, with New South Wales and Victoria both contracting by around 8.5 per cent. This compares to a six per cent contraction in State Final Demand for WA in the June quarter.

Lockdowns and border closures work in softening the impact.

 

[kranky al]

They are traced back to clusters.

But it's still community transmission and therefore the grand final should be moved to a COVID free state in SA.

community transmission is people falling ill from an unknown vector.

we know where these people were infected and as such they are a local transmission.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell]

What are the chances of Melbourne metropolitan people being able to travel interstate by:
A) Christmas
B) Easter

 

[The 747]

Relevant quotes:



Lockdowns and border closures work in softening the impact.

Wait 1.1% is the fastest growth for seven years? What was growth at before?

 

[D-N-R]

What comes first? The egg or the chicken? Or put it more succinctly, if we did not have the biggest bureaucratic stuff up in our history, i.e., hotel quarantine, would Melbourne have experienced the 2nd wave? Looking at NSW and other states the answer is probably no.

What comes first is a plan to protect the most vulnerable in the event of an outbreak. It failed spectacularly.

During a global pandemic, the likelihood of an outbreak would have to be very high. You would prepare as if it was likely to happen, not if it could.

We would have still seen an outbreak, but the death toll could have been much lower if those in charge had spent some time preparing. They had a prior warning and plenty of time during the first lockdown. They failed.

 

[Sttew]

What comes first is a plan to protect the most vulnerable in the event of an outbreak. It failed spectacularly.

During a global pandemic, the likelihood of an outbreak would have to be very high. You would prepare as if it was likely to happen, not if it could.

We would have still seen an outbreak, but the death toll could have been much lower if those in charge had spent some time preparing. They had a prior warning and plenty of time during the first lockdown. They failed.

Straight out of Yes Minister! Sorry, but only one state has experienced a 2nd wave, and this will go down as THE biggest bureaucratic stuff up in the country’s history

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What comes first is a plan to protect the most vulnerable in the event of an outbreak. It failed spectacularly.

During a global pandemic, the likelihood of an outbreak would have to be very high. You would prepare as if it was likely to happen, not if it could.

We would have still seen an outbreak, but the death toll could have been much lower if those in charge had spent some time preparing. They had a prior warning and plenty of time during the first lockdown. They failed.

They had a pandemic plan. It was meant to be reviewed and hadn't but it was still there.
They didn't follow it.

 

[HTT]

What are the chances of Melbourne metropolitan people being able to travel interstate by:
A) Christmas
B) Easter

Travelling to NSW by Christmas seems realistic, other states probably not without quarantine.
Easter is so far away, roles could be completely reversed by then, there could be a vaccine starting to get rolled out (I bloody hope so), VIC/NSW may accidentally eliminate the virus through a suppression strategy, changing the goals again.

 

[Sttew]

We find out today the 8.00pm curfew was Dan Andrews’s idea. He did not consult Police or the Chief Medical Health Officer.

I personally believe the curfew has been effective in stopping movement in the community, but that aside this has highlighted why this government should not be given increased powers

 

[D-N-R]

Straight out of Yes Minister! Sorry, but only one state has experienced a 2nd wave, and this will go down as THE biggest bureaucratic stuff up in the country’s history

Straight out of Yes Minister is a statement by the PM basically saying that their plan to protect residents in the event of an outbreak came undone because of an outbreak. "If no one had been infected, our plan to protect them from infection would have worked perfectly".

 

[Bring-Back-Powell]

Can someone please confirm to me the rationale behind the QLD government's decision making of late?

On the one hand they have allowed a number of AFL staff members to enter the state. That's fine, but their kids, grand parents and, get this, swimming teachers of the AFL's families have also been permitted to fly up from Melbourne.

(Why are families allowed up there? Isn't it a standard business trip for the AFL employees)

BUT

On the other hand, just one of 4 children will be able to enter into QLD to see their dying father.

I mean seriously what is going on up there?

Gil and Palaszczuk should be held to account on this.

 

[Big Bryza]

What are the chances of Melbourne metropolitan people being able to travel interstate by:
A) Christmas
B) Easter

What year?