Autopsy Round 17, 2020: St.Kilda v West Coast

[StCicatriz]

Like I’ve said previously I believe the effort was there. Skill levels by foot not so good although we have very good hands.
It’s just some of the decisions made with ball in hand can be absolutely mind boggling. We are a very dumb footy side lacking in football smarts. We need to target a couple of less injury prone Hanneberys. One for each line, I think we underestimate the value of game perception.

I dont think the effort was there compared to WCE and its been an issue all year. Defencively we give clubs more time with the ball than they give us.

Which means they are not under as much pressure when disposing of it. We on the other hand were set upon with stuck tackles. We didn't have as much time.

Now I'm not saying it happens ever game but it's a consistent theme when teams are on top of us.

 

[plugger66]

If Melbourne beat GWS I think we can still make it too

We do make it. There are 2 games this week that if results go our way we play finals and as disappointing as the last few weeks have been if you look at the year as 17 games that is a huge pass mark. A b plus considering last year we won 5 games by less than 2 kicks and this year we lost 4 games by less than a kick. And the big pointer on improvement is the percentage. 111 this year. 83 last year.

 

[StCicatriz]

ok so my 2c on this game :

Ratten - Let me be very clear im not calling for his head but the concerns i had about him as coach when we were deciding between him and Bangers as head coach have not been removed in this first year of him coaching us .. he has us playing similar to how he had Carlton playing when he was coach there wher the team would swing from great to woeful in the space of ten minutes, he had a game plan that when teams allowed the game to be played on those terms looked fantastic but when the opposition changes the tempo and style of the game it falls to crap.. I have buy in with Ratts and ill support him as our coach but he needs to show the footy world that his time at Hawthorn has developed his coaching beyond what he did as a middling Calton coach.

King - we are playing him like the player we want him to become not the player he is at the moment... give him a few years and he will be clunking everything and dominating the the forward line but at the moment him getting crunched in packs and lamenting he doesnt mark it is again expecting him to be what he will become too early - we did the same with Roo to and extent but we also have guys like GTrain and Sammy who were more focal points in that early development .. we need the guys to look to Membrey Ryder and Roma more also we as fans need to just cool our jets on the big fella, give him some time

Geary - much respect for gears to become the player he is and he has been a good captain for us as a leader of hard work and determination and a big part of the disipline our team have shown by just getting on with the job in the face of adversery .. But if we are to make that next step . if we are to move from okay team to strong team to feared team we need a captain that is going to lump the team on his back and drag us forward, a captain who is going to fill the team with that killer instinct that when the opposition are weakend we go to work on that and exploite that weakness. Marshall sometimes shows that, Long sometimes shows that the rest ......

i was out and about yesterday so i was force to have to only listen to the game on the radio not watch it but ill put this to you there is no greater pain than listening to that game being called by Karl Langdon , Glenn Jackovich and the other guy... people complain about Eddy calling Collingwood games my god you eastern staters have no idea what biased comentary sounds like til you have heard the game called by these muppets ..

Feel for you today man. Know what irs gonna be like.

Your thoughts are exactly how I feel. Especially on ratten.

Time will tell if he can fix it

 

[StCicatriz]

Finals or not theyve improved.

Eating a s**t sandwich here in Perth is one of the least pleasant experiences. I'm gonna be doing it 100 times today easily.

We do make it. There are 2 games this week that if results go our way we play finals and as disappointing as the last few weeks have been if you look at the year as 17 games that is a huge pass mark. A b plus considering last year we won 5 games by less than 2 kicks and this year we lost 4 games by less than a kick. And the big pointer on improvement is the percentage. 111 this year. 83 last year.

 

[gringo2011]

Hopefully we stop persisting with some of these guys who have been there for several years who continue to let this club down.

I kind of hope they trade a few and give the picks to libba and see what he can do.

I don't, I think we need to stay on the path. Being competitive while rebuilding is going to keep memberships up, keep hope going and keep us from bottoming out which seems to mentally ruin players. We are a few mids off a serious side still and players like Clark, King and Coffield just need games rammed into them.

If King can become a Joe Daniher/ Josh Kennedy we are instantly a 4 goals a week better side most weeks as it frees up space for others as well as adding to scoring himself. 2 more full time midfielders of quality would be huge.

Clark is looking like he could be one after yesterday. Maybe we get Williams and Caldwell and try to do a cheap top up with out trading out of a another draft. We are young and inexperienced and need our kids to get to a point where they have full on belief.

Billings and Ross types have been broken by the sides they played in. Having these guys stay up is important. Ratts has been playing the long game not panicking and bringing in the past to get results now despite the rest of us getting impatient.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Yep. It’s actually pretty astonishing that we sit where we do.
If someone had said we’d be 6th after round 15, with Billings, Hill, Membrey, Ross and Geary having poor/very poor years, while missing Hanners, Dunstan and Gresh for all/majority of the year, I reckon we’d have jumped at it.
Still, I feel like my life is over this morning, such is the grip these f***ers have over me

oh look dont get me wrong im over all very happy with our year ... when the whole COVID thing hit and we were getting moved over to QLD and the realisation that we were going to have ZERO games at Marvel i was prepping myself for a bottom 5 season so to be 6th heading into the last game of the year i am really very happy for that.. but the frustration i guess is the fact that with the exception of the Geelong and Collingwood game we have been either in front or within a kick of the lead really late into the last qtr only to lose and with that we have produced a long period in those winnable games where we basically set ourselves up to lose the game ... thats the bit that kicks in the guts.. in some ways getting outclassed all game is perhaps easier to take than having a sleep for 1 qtr to be over ran ...

 

[plugger66]

Finals or not theyve improved.

Eating a sh*t sandwich here in Perth is one of the least pleasant experiences. I'm gonna be doing it 100 times today easily.

We don’t cop it here now when we lose to a Victorian side because we can’t see anyone. Having said that all my what’s app groups were having a good old chuckle at the result. Not at me thought. I learnt as a saints supporter you just shut your mouth. Some of my other mates haven’t learnt though and they cop

 

[WRFL Indentity]

I believe our forward line isn't set up correctly. I'd have liked to see;

F: Billings - Marshall/Ryder - Butler
HF: Membrey - King - Steele/Clark/Battle

King should be getting touches up the ground and running back - like Roo, but taller and quicker.
I'd also like to see us create a mismatch at HF by resting mids there - presently we are not getting enough out of permanent forwards.
I'd also like to see Battle play in the middle.

The lack of midfield stars AND depth is our biggest issue.

 

[plugger66]

I don't, I think we need to stay on the path. Being competitive while rebuilding is going to keep memberships up, keep hope going and keep us from bottoming out which seems to mentally ruin players. We are a few mids off a serious side still and players like Clark, King and Coffield just need games rammed into them.

If King can become a Joe Daniher/ Josh Kennedy we are instantly a 4 goals a week better side most weeks as it frees up space for others as well as adding to scoring himself. 2 more full time midfielders of quality would be huge.

Clark is looking like he could be one after yesterday. Maybe we get Williams and Caldwell and try to do a cheap top up with out trading out of a another draft. We are young and inexperienced and need our kids to get to a point where they have full on belief.

Billings and Ross types have been broken by the sides they played in. Having these guys stay up is important. Ratts has been playing the long game not panicking and bringing in the past to get results now despite the rest of us getting impatient.

Common gringo. That’s a little crazy on king in this day and age. Unless footy changes he is never going to kick a hundred goals. An extra goal and half a week from him probably gets us top 4.

 

[plugger66]

I believe our forward line isn't set up correctly. I'd have liked to see;

F: Billings - Marshall/Ryder - Butler
HF: Membrey - King - Steele/Clark/Battle

King should be getting touches up the ground and running back - like Roo, but taller and quicker.
I'd also like to see us create a mismatch at HF by resting mids there - presently we are not getting enough out of permanent forwards.
I'd also like to see Battle play in the middle.

The lack of midfield stars AND depth is our biggest issue.

He would get smashed doing that role at the moment. That’s a couple of weights years away.

 

[George]

If Melbourne beat GWS I think we can still make it too

Yep! Our percent probably gets us through in that scenario.

More importantly though a Dogs loss guarantees it for us regardless of any other results.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not usually a coach bagger. Matter of fact usually stick up for them as I did with Carlisle not playing but in hindsight we made 2 bad selections yesterday. Bytel has to play as an extra mid over hind and Carlisle had to play for a back. Not sure who but the coach is paid for hard decisions. Then we continue with this switch that worked for half the season but basically hasn’t worked since the geelong game. It was a quick switch that opened up the ground. Now it’s a painful slow switch that does nothing at all. It even cost us a simple goal when Wilkie kicked it like me to one of our players. Hard to change game styles in this era of covid but we need to work out another way of going forward. You have 7 days rats.

I actually disagree that we did quick switches early. One thing I thought early season was that we'd stopped the Richo switch. We went pretty brave and direct, we were a fast moving side who took sides on with clean short passing and brave decisions.

Defences couldn't set up and we'd sit players out the back. Forwards not able to mark would tap the ball out to space. Now we are going back to Richo style switch it around allowing time for defences to set, we move the ball really conservatively and never move quickly.

Our forwards all look like we are trying to play selfish footy to keep our spots.

 

[Hayes4PM]

All these geniuses going off on King, who and what is your alternative?

Also not like he was the one forward who failed to have an impact.

 

[TheEnsign]

My only thought really was - jeez, we could really have done with another tall marking defender when Allen got that soft free in the goalsquare, right guys?

Not fair to single out Seb, but that OOB kick very late in the 4th when Hill was free on the wing just summed up where we are for mine. No composure at all when the heat is on.

Also, interesting contrast that GWS has dropped Conilgio. Say what you will about them being a plastic franchise relying on talent over hard work (and I think all of those things); with their season on the line they are willing to take hard decisions and show that no-one gets an automatic in to the team.

 

[The Punter]

The last few weeks have looked a lot like Richo-ball.

 

[gringo2011]

Common gringo. That’s a little crazy on king in this day and age. Unless footy changes he is never going to kick a hundred goals. An extra goal and half a week from him probably gets us top 4.

I didn't say he'd kick them, said with him taking heat he frees up the others to score. He'll kick his 2 or 3 a week regularly but he should take the focus like Kennedy does and cause defenders to over focus and panic. Players like Membrey should then be able to run around causing havoc. Darling wouldn't be anywhere near the player he is without Kennedy to take the heat.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Good summary. I don't think King is the player we thought he might be- IMO at the moment looking more like Tom Hickey playing as a permanent forward. I thought Paddy showed more potential in comparison, but sadly we know injury cut him down. Hopefully a couple of seasons will see his body mature and become a better player.

totally disagree .. King is going to be fantastic for us (provided we dont break him) the problem is we are not setting him up to be successful by the way we are asking him to play..
in three years yeah i have no doubt King will be tearing down pack marks , i have no doubt that defenders will be crapping themselves to stop him and in turn will get pinged for holding an arm or trying to stop his run at the ball .. but in realistically year one he isnt going to have the body to compeate and win every single contest ...
for you to compare him to Hickey is either showing you have zero insight into football or is a clear trolling attempt ...
terrible post

 

[plugger66]

I actually disagree that we did quick switches early. One thing I thought early season was that we'd stopped the Richo switch. We went pretty brave and direct, we were a fast moving side who took sides on with clean short passing and brave decisions.

Defences couldn't set up and we'd sit players out the back. Forwards not able to mark would tap the ball out to space. Now we are going back to Richo style switch it around allowing time for defences to set, we move the ball really conservatively and never move quickly.

Our forwards all look like we are trying to play selfish footy to keep our spots.

Well we agree to disagree but the heat maps for games suggests switching then quickly down the line to one on ones then deep bombing They had no time to set up. Now it’s slow ball movement and when it gets there their backline is set up and secondly we aren’t kicking as deep because the kick into the forward line is from the wing now instead of half forward previously. Our goal kicking never really improved. It was where we were getting it.

 

[kernelT]

The last few weeks have looked a lot like Richo-ball.

Exactly. We'd be better off trying entries with a running chain of handballs than this big loopy kick to 20 metres out over and over.

It's like pulling teeth watching us, I get excited before the game and then dead-set hate watching it.

 

[plugger66]

I didn't say he'd kick them, said with him taking heat he frees up the others to score. He'll kick his 2 or 3 a week regularly but he should take the focus like Kennedy does and cause defenders to over focus and panic. Players like Membrey should then be able to run around causing havoc. Darling wouldn't be anywhere near the player he is without Kennedy to take the heat.

But if we kicked 4 goals extra a week we would be clearly on top of the ladder. As good as king maybe in future this side is not a top of the ladder side. We have far to many issues for one player to fix.

 

[luca77]

Here's what stinks to me about last night's game.
Xavier O'Neill, Brayden Ainsworth, Josh Rotham, Jackson Nelson, Hamish Brayshaw
WTF even are these people, and who knew they were on a sporting list?
And so all we needed was for Dean Kent, Ben Long, Nick Hind, Jack Lonie, Ben Paton (just half-arsedly choosing our bottom 5 here, leaving out the C and VC)
to win comprehensively over that who's who of nobodies and we'd be a long way towards winning, regardless of how good their top 5 were.
Kent got two handpasses for the game! Long got one kick, Hind 4 kicks. WTF were they doing out there?
Everyone saying Bytel's not ready e.t.c I couldn't give a damn. He'd get more possessions than the 3 of those guys combined and he'd learn a few things along the way.
As for Carlisle, has the club come out and stated that he's out for family-related reasons? If not, why the hell not? He's not a friggin Russian election candidate, just tell us. If he wasn't picked for football reasons against that Eagles forward line, it's a big bloody black mark against the coach and his team.

Speaking of black marks. If you've got the team advantage overall, and you don't start all that well, what's the best strategy. Stick your best tagger (Steele) on their best player (Kelly), make it a hard tag and tell the other blokes in the middle to beat their opponents if they want to play next week. I know Steele was near Kelly a bit later in the game, but not near enough and not early enough, he ripped a new Rsehole in us last night.

One more thing about Jake, he's the only bloke other than Lonie who's got a bit of mongrel in him. We're timid as mice out there, and it sucks balls.

In: Jake, Bytel and anyone willing to flatten Toby Greene
Out: Any player who didn't look sufficiently disgusted in their own performance last night and doesn't burn the track up this week

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Feel for you today man. Know what irs gonna be like.

Your thoughts are exactly how I feel. Especially on ratten.

Time will tell if he can fix it

yeah the day after a loss to WCE is always a crap day ... not so much from the WCE die hard fans its the fans who wouldnt know who Tim Kelly is if he sat down next to them who are now life long WCE fans that are generally the ones who drive you insane

 

[#gosaintas]

totally disagree .. King is going to be fantastic for us (provided we dont break him) the problem is we are not setting him up to be successful by the way we are asking him to play..
in three years yeah i have no doubt King will be tearing down pack marks , i have no doubt that defenders will be crapping themselves to stop him and in turn will get pinged for holding an arm or trying to stop his run at the ball .. but in realistically year one he isnt going to have the body to compeate and win every single contest ...
for you to compare him to Hickey is either showing you have zero insight into football or is a clear trolling attempt ...
terrible post

or he's just having some fun with an amusing comparison. He has looked very Hickey-esque the last few games but we all know that things will change as he develops.

 

[WRFL Indentity]

Iroviding his tank is up to scratch, I would think his speed would make it very difficult to man him up. It all depends on his tank though. So maybe not this year, but it is definately something I would like to see next year.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Heard on the radio this morning that Lenny is walking away from the Giants. Go get him, boys!
Player/captain/ coach