2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Mego Red]

Sholl goes alright... Just as well he wasn't dropped.

He would have been managed, not dropped. No one suggested dropping him.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He would have been managed, not dropped. No one suggested dropping him.

Yes they were & many criticised the post.

Now you are apologising for posters too...

 

[adelaidecrows]

Sholl goes alright... Just as well he wasn't dropped.

So what if he was. I never said he would be dropped for form. It was purely a rest. A rest would not have impacted his player development. It was purely to get another player in. That's all.

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[adelaidecrows]

Yes they were & many criticised the post.

Now you are apologising for posters too...

Who said dropped for form? If you are referring to my post it was for management. But we all know most people on forums lack basic inferencing skills.

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[Kane McGoodwin]

Who said dropped for form? If you are referring to my post it was for management. But we all know most people on forums lack basic inferencing skills.

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Funny how you never explained yourself until after the game...

 

[adelaidecrows]

Funny how you never explained yourself until after the game...

I didn't think I had to. I just over estimated your inferencing skills. Now I know you automatically assume the worst in people. Sad sad world you must live in.

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[Mutineer]

Maybe I will be wrong, but hey, we all get things wrong from time to time. I'm old enough to remember you repeatedly telling us about Himmelberg's poor marking ability.

Haha yeah I was Robinson Crusoe in that regard, just about everyone on this board wanted him to stick more of his marks....thankfully he's improved immeasurably in that regard the last month or so.

I'm not sure how that relates to Ben Davis though and you suggesting he was worth a 3rd round pick.

 

[1990crow]

Imagine the young group coming through if we get Picks 1, 2 (Crouch compo), 9 (Giants pick), Pick 21, Pick 22 (Atkins compo), Pick 34 (Dogs second).
Pick 9 maybe traded to Giants for Caldwell and Hately.

Pre 2015: ROB, Laird, M.Crouch
2015: Milera, Doedee
2016: Himmelburg
2017: Fogarty, McPherson
2018: McHenry, Jones, Hamill, Sholl, Butts
2019: McAsey, Schoenberg, Worrell, O'Connor (Gollant?)
2020: McDonald, Hollands, Caldwell/Pick 9, Hately, Pick 21, Pick 22, Edwards, Borlase, Newchurch

Form of past 3 weeks I wouldn't be backing us for the spoon next year even if Crouch leaves.

 

[hippyhippy]

McAsey a very poor pick, too slow for a modern day player, poor kick and cannot run with the ball

Sounds like talia.

 

[Golumless]

Imagine the young group coming through if we get Picks 1, 2 (Crouch compo), 9 (Giants pick), Pick 21, Pick 22 (Atkins compo), Pick 34 (Dogs second).
Pick 9 maybe traded to Giants for Caldwell and Hately.

Pre 2015: ROB, Laird, M.Crouch
2015: Milera, Doedee
2016: Himmelburg
2017: Fogarty, McPherson
2018: McHenry, Jones, Hamill, Sholl, Butts
2019: McAsey, Schoenberg, Worrell, O'Connor (Gollant?)
2020: McDonald, Hollands, Caldwell/Pick 9, Hately, Pick 21, Pick 22, Edwards, Borlase, Newchurch

Form of past 3 weeks I wouldn't be backing us for the spoon next year even if Crouch leaves.

I have to agree, I know there is still some older blokes around who did the heavy lifting, but for a side in our situation to jag an away win against a mid-table side is certainly a promising sign.

I can't see us finishing any higher then 14th at the moment, seeing I'm expecting a decently large turnover in players and some more growing pains as we get younger, but I am at the point now I'm willing to revise the "competitive 18th (i.e. we've finished 18th, but we were similar to 16-17th)" as the 2021 pass mark.

 

[1990crow]

I have to agree, I know there is still some older blokes around who did the heavy lifting, but for a side in our situation to jag an away win against a mid-table side is certainly a promising sign.

I can't see us finishing any higher then 14th at the moment, seeing I'm expecting a decently large turnover in players and some more growing pains as we get younger, but I am at the point now I'm willing to revise the "competitive 18th (i.e. we've finished 18th, but we were similar to 16-17th)" as the 2021 pass mark.

Certainly. But I would likely see us in the 17th to 14th range. Would be surprised if either end of the spectrum occurred. If it ends up being 15th for argument sake that's pick 4. Going to be a very high quality midfielder in that range so it's all good. Ideally we manage to get a pick next year to upgrade it for Horne if we have to.

 

[BRL121]

Sounds like talia.

Indeed, but you're late to the party there.

 

[huludicidal]

Here’s what I’m doing with the list in an ideal world.

Current list size: 44 including rookies

Expected list size for 2021: 40-41 including rookies (someone correct me if I’m wrong here but that’s what my gut tells me)

Out:

Retire:
Gibbs
Mackay (look, he’s had a good year, but the likes of Sholl, Hamill, McPherson and Schoenberg are ready to take over now, so a D-Mac farewell game against the Tigers this week would be a nice way to finish up)

FA departures:
B Crouch (I feel this will net us Pick 2, but I’d probably look to re-sign Brad if the AFL inform us that it won’t)
Atkins (Done deal to GC)
Hartigan (a number of Vic Clubs circling - McAsey and Butts are the future defensive pillars, so no point in overpaying Hartigan to stay)

Trades:
Kelly (for a future pick or as steak knives in a 3 way Hately deal)

Delist:
Poholke (simply does not have a defined role at AFL level and never will)
Wilson (no brainer)
Knight (no brainer)
Crocker (not AFL standard)
Gallucci (slightly controversial, but he’s just not up to it)
Strachan (McDonald or Thilthorpe being drafted, in addition to the continual rise of Himmelberg and ROB mean Strachan is surplus to requirements)
** If we need to axe one more, it would be Ayce Taylor

(12-13 players out)


In:
Via Trade:
Jackson Hately (Probably give up either ours or the Dogs 2nd rounder, plus Kelly or a future pick to make this happen)

Via Draft:
Pick 1 (becomes pick 2 once our bid on Ugle-Hagan is matched by the Dogs) - I’m taking Elijah Hollands here with very little hesitation.

Pick 2 (becomes pick 3 - this is the hypothetical B Crouch compo which I think we will get considering someone is clearly going to pay him 700k for 4-5 years, plus we’re finishing dead last, and the AFL secret herbs and spices compo formula clearly favours cellar dwellers) - I’m taking Logan McDonald here without even blinking.

GWS first rounder (when Academy sections are taken into account this ends up being pick 11ish) - Despite already taking L McDonald earlier, I’m still taking Thilthorpe here if he’s miraculously still on the board at pick 11ish, OR I’m trying to trade up to pick 5-7 to take Thilthorpe if we get a sniff that he’s being taken before this pick, OR I’m bidding on L Jones to keep Port honest, AND if I can’t draft Thilthorpe for whatever reason here, I’m taking Archie Perkins with confidence.

Edwards (hopefully via F/S - expecting to match a bid at around Pick 30-37)

Newchurch (NGA - expecting to match a bid at around Pick 40-50)

Borlase (NGA - matching a bid at around Pick 50-60)

Plus 1 other National Draft pick (We will still have one 2nd Rounder left after trading one for Hately) - I’m targeting any one of Caleb Poulter, Jack Carroll, Zavier Maher or Eddie Ford, depending on who is available by the time this pick rolls around.


Plus 1 Rookie Draft Pick (someone with super high upside, high risk, high reward type stuff - someone like Phoenix Spicer would be a fun pick if he isn’t taken at the ND, but you never know who might slip through to this stage)

(9 players in)

 

[Mego Red]

Who said dropped for form? If you are referring to my post it was for management. But we all know most people on forums lack basic inferencing skills.

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I'd ignore Kane. He posts some absolute crazy s**t at times.

 

[119others]

Imagine the young group coming through if we get Picks 1, 2 (Crouch compo), 9 (Giants pick), Pick 21, Pick 22 (Atkins compo), Pick 34 (Dogs second).
Pick 9 maybe traded to Giants for Caldwell and Hately.

Pre 2015: ROB, Laird, M.Crouch
2015: Milera, Doedee
2016: Himmelburg
2017: Fogarty, McPherson
2018: McHenry, Jones, Hamill, Sholl, Butts
2019: McAsey, Schoenberg, Worrell, O'Connor (Gollant?)
2020: McDonald, Hollands, Caldwell/Pick 9, Hately, Pick 21, Pick 22, Edwards, Borlase, Newchurch

Form of past 3 weeks I wouldn't be backing us for the spoon next year even if Crouch leaves.

good core bunch but just need a handful of truly elite players to develop from this lot or new draftees

 

[Brett Cummings]

why are some saying caldwell to the crows? he's victorian. has he indicated he wants to come here?

 

[MarcusP2]

why are some saying caldwell to the crows? he's victorian. has he indicated he wants to come here?

There has just been a few media articles saying we're into him. Doesn't mean we are a chance, just that we're asking the question.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Agree,
Re - Hartigan best thing for both Parties is he takes advatage of his free agancy he could get 2-3 years of Game time at a few Clubs, while at the Crows he will be the smash glass in case of an emergancy type Player taking up a list spot. Bonus for the Crows is End of the Day could earn the Crows a band 4/5 pick. which for the Crows is the basaclly the same, band 4 = end of 2nd rd, band 5 = after 3rd rd pick.

Re Lynch I Believe Lynch will be around until his contract exprires in 2021. But I don't see him in the Crows Future, he has 1-2 years max as a capable player. (more likly less.)
However Walker Like you I believe it to be important he is around the Club for the reason you mentioned. Is that in a Playing role or development role don't mind maybe as Captian of the SANFL side.

Hartigan will definitely be head hunted as a FB ......Crows will offer 1 year, and in all probability delisting after .....he'll get 2 years back in Melb

 

[Danger_zone]

There has just been a few media articles saying we're into him. Doesn't mean we are a chance, just that we're asking the question.

100% we would be, but dont see that happening. Can't remember the last promising player we traded in that was wanted by other Vic clubs and wasn't from SA. The only person I can think of is Lynch? Seedsman has been decent, but wasn't in demand like Caldwell.

Hately is a fine trade target. Will be a solid inside mid (A grade) workhorse that can push forward/wing (B Grade).

 

[Golumless]

why are some saying caldwell to the crows? he's victorian. has he indicated he wants to come here?

The selling point is Nick's for us. If they had a great relationship, well that's certainly a compelling argument for someone who has had their struggles with being best 22 (noting injuries played a role).

 

[StickerMan]

The selling point is Nick's for us. If they had a great relationship, well that's certainly a compelling argument for someone who has had their struggles with being best 22 (noting injuries played a role).

With the impacts of Covid hanging around for some time yet and the potential for pre-sesaon and next season to have further disruptions in VIC, does SA now become a more attractive destination for a young bloke to be able to get out and about and enjoy the life of a young AFL superstar?

I know where I would prefer to be if this year's events overflow into the next year or so!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I disagree, there is certainly a pathway for McAsey to be better than Talia/Rutten. His hands are excellent in a contested situation and he seems to read the play pretty well which does make me think there is potential for more offensive output then those two. It's certainly going to be a long road before he could hit those heights though.

People write KPP off too quickly .....too slow, not strong enough, poor hands

Himmelberg looked slow, cumbersome ......all agreed POV's by me, however it takes talls a while to grow into their bodies, not all players granted, but most
It takes a few PS's to get the fitness and confidence

Weitering was drafted #1 in 2015 with recruiters calling him a future star ......it's understating to say that during the seasons 2017-19 he was lambasted as a failed draft pick .....too slow, easily beaten in contests, and plenty of self doubts .....
Now 22 YO, 90+ games the AFL world is seeing what all the recruiters saw ......but it took a long time

People passing judgement on McAsey after 10 games are being unfair .......he will be an excellent player, great hands and better than Talia / Rutten
His pace will improve over the next two PS's , as will his strength ......again I say, be patient, he was excellent for a first year tall

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I loved a conversation pre game on 5aa. They looked at all the trades over the last couple of years and draft picks. Turns out perhaps our list management and drafting isn't as bad as the experts made out. Some experts jumping on culture issues could have exaggerated slightly a little also.

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Amazing how 3 wins changes everyone's opinions on our list ......this is the same list there was a chorus of support for sacking Hamish over, just a few short weeks ago

Make no mistake, this is a good list ......yes still deficient in a couple of talls, ruck, and a big bodied mid

This Draft and next Draft will finish the list rebuild

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Certainly. But I would likely see us in the 17th to 14th range. Would be surprised if either end of the spectrum occurred. If it ends up being 15th for argument sake that's pick 4. Going to be a very high quality midfielder in that range so it's all good. Ideally we manage to get a pick next year to upgrade it for Horne if we have to.

We can impact our finishing position next season, but how many senior players we retain from this season

As good as any list, remove enough senior players and kids will struggle thru inconsistency ......but the club will want to start the climb up the ladder next season ......winning breeds confidence in kids

3 wins this season .....can see 7 wins in 2021 ...this would put us 13th -14th next year

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Amazing how 3 wins changes everyone's opinions on our list ......this is the same list there was a chorus of support for sacking Hamish over, just a few short weeks ago

Make no mistake, this is a good list ......yes still deficient in a couple of talls, ruck, and a big bodied mid

This Draft and next Draft will finish the list rebuild

Throw in a decent game plan and a few cloggers being rested.