Autopsy Rd 17 Blues lose to the bottom side after awful first half

[mochacinolatte]

If the formguide worked out all the time I'd be a billionaire.

 

[FRUMPY]

Which he regularly does. And this is a problem.

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id prefer dow take the set shot over cripps these days - or just let the full back get a ball out of the bag and take the kick-in.

 

[katmanblue]

So by your logic the umpire should say "nah he's not going to kick a goal so I won't bother calling it"?

Course not. Just vent my frustration at Cripps inability to kick goals. The fluke from yesterday notwithstanding.

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[Arr0w]

Technique goes out the window when they sh*t themselves in front of goal.

Ive never mentioned flag.........

Not you, MJ

 

[FRUMPY]

Not you, MJ

Righto -

Just further to the mental side of goal kicking - you cant tell me cripps run-up yesterday wasnt mental?

 

[Arr0w]

Arrow, I agree with most of your suggestions, but what I don't understand is why Teague has been so slow to react to areas of our gameplan (5+ unanswered goals) and also is stubbornly playing people out of position.

Should we be concerned that he has done nothing to address these issues?

On what evidence do we have confidence that he and the current assistants can actually make the changes required??

I'm really worried we will be in a very similar position this time next year.

I am concerned regarding momentum, we will know early next year if it has been addressed

 

[Just Kreuzing]

No I don't think so. Did you see Teague's press conference? He was not impressed by it. That was very clear.

I loved Gibbs. But if I was in a senior position at Carlton I would be tearing up any contract Murphy and Simpson have for 2021. That was putting their friendship with a player over the club. You don't do that after a loss. Particularly after losing to the bottom team to end your finals hunt.

Go do that at Clarko's Hawks or Leigh Matthews Brisbane. Matthews threw players across the locker room for a lot less.

If it was done at a successful club like you mentioned than all would be saying that’s great respect, culture etc, etc.

Overreaction.....

 

[Arr0w]

25-40 mins of non-stop bad football is very consistent.

Hilarious

 

[Macca43]

Righto -

Just further to the mental side of goal kicking - you cant tell me cripps run-up yesterday wasnt mental?

Or McKay now playing on every time he marks dead in front.

 

[SticksChips]

Has nothing to do with mentality, it is coaching and structure

Could players be frustrated with aspects of the gameplan? Absolutely

But you can't have mental weakness one weak and then mental strength the following after winning, coming from behind after being 7 goals down

In fact that suggests the side believes that it can beat anyone on a given day

This starts with Teague

Nope sorry. With all due respect you are parroting things that suit your logic and ignoring basic inconsistencies in your thought process.

You say our slow starts, conceding lots of goals in a small period etc are on Teague and it is coaching. You then say we are not mentally weak because Weiters and Walsh perform. Can you not see the glaring inconsistency?

If Weiters and Walsh can perform to the game plan Teague gives from the first bounce, why can't others? Same argument as your "Walsh and Weiters aren't mentally weak so it isn't a mental issue".

Now Teague has a habit of correcting our troops at half or quarter time and turning things around. Is that not coaching? Doesn't seem to turn around mid quarter, usually always after he addresses the troops.

In reality if you look at it without an agenda, the true answer is a combination of mental weakness and coaching. I.e. Teague clearly is not having our guys fired up and focused at first bounce and has not coached them how to stop the flow when the game is against you. But given he can connect with them and turn games around I would suggest it isn't solely his poor coaching otherwise he would have lost the players and they would not come back. That suggests to me it is some mental issue, whether that be fear, lack of desire etc.

So curious why you want to lay all the blame on Teague. Did you support Bolton being sacked or not?

 

[Arr0w]

Generally spot on post
But I would add that even though we may (arguably) be at the bottom end of your prediction, losing to the worst Adelaide side ever is pretty damning.
If we don't address these issues at the end of this year we may as well hand the keys back. For me this big one is the coaching panel. A bunch of nobodies who were average as players and don't have pedigree as coaches from other clubs (I exclude Luke Power, and excuse Dale Amos for his body of work). We need to get bonafide coaching experience into the club, favouring coaches who have come from successful clubs.

Crows haven't been playing like a spoon side last 4 weeks, that's plainly obvious

Forget the opposition, I agree the momentum swings need addressing. This starts and ends with Teague, not his assistants, they are there to deliver the message as line coaches

 

[FRUMPY]

Nope sorry. With all due respect you are parroting things that suit your logic and ignoring basic inconsistencies in your thought process.

You say our slow starts, conceding lots of goals in a small period etc are on Teague and it is coaching. You then say we are not mentally weak because Weiters and Walsh perform. Can you not see the glaring inconsistency?

If Weiters and Walsh can perform to the game plan Teague gives from the first bounce, why can't others? Same argument as your "Walsh and Weiters aren't mentally weak so it isn't a mental issue".

Now Teague has a habit of correcting our troops at half or quarter time and turning things around. Is that not coaching? Doesn't seem to turn around mid quarter, usually always after he addresses the troops.

In reality if you look at it without an agenda, the true answer is a combination of mental weakness and coaching. I.e. Teague clearly is not having our guys fired up and focused at first bounce and has not coached them how to stop the flow when the game is against you. But given he can connect with them and turn games around I would suggest it isn't solely his poor coaching otherwise he would have lost the players and they would not come back. That suggests to me it is some mental issue, whether that be fear, lack of desire etc.

So curious why you want to lay all the blame on Teague. Did you support Bolton being sacked or not?

All of that also shows a total lack of on field leadership that players on ground cant stop the bleeding and need to be reset at a quarter break. We were hoping Doc being back would solve alot of this and when you think Weitering is now a leader as well. But it hasnt transitioned to onfield leadership it seems.

 

[Arr0w]

It's all easy to say - But for whom exactly?
Given the structure Teague wants -

Re McGovern: CCurnow and JSilvagni are injured. Kennedy has no form.
Re Betts: We saw Owies and that led to little. We didn't persevere with Honey when we may have given him more time.

Not justifying the players form, but we can't just pluck out a Philp and ask him to do what Betts has been asked to do, nor can we pluck out Finbar and ask him to do what McGovern has been asked to do.

How many times have we seen it this year: 'He deserves a go, as his form has been great in the reserves'
How has that worked out for Moore, Owies, O'Brien, Cottrell, Honey, Kennedy, Polson. Not great, right?

What would Teague do if Gov was injured? You adapt. Gove should have been dropped some time ago

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Or McKay now playing on every time he marks dead in front.

Exactly, lucky not to be smothered....

 

[HARKER]

What would Teague do if Gov was injured? You adapt. Gove should have been dropped some time ago

He has enough injured players to deal with already. That doesn't make for an argument.

There's no point calling out players to be dropped when there's nothing better behind them. That proof has already been on display.

 

[JustaBattler]

All of that also shows a total lack of on field leadership that players on ground cant stop the bleeding and need to be reset at a quarter break. We were hoping Doc being back would solve alot of this and when you think Weitering is now a leader as well. But it hasnt transitioned to onfield leadership it seems.

Do you really think that the defenders are the reason the other teams are scoring so easily against Carlton?

 

[Arr0w]

This is coming very close to head in the sand stuff.

Why can’t it change week to week? As in life, we approach different tasks, different people, in different ways - affected by past experience, expectations etc.

Do you honestly think the players feel the same each week? It’s blatantly ignoring a very important element of being human.

Okay, without going through each game.

<insert any term you want>, culture, composure, mentality, etc. For the example, let's call it, "it"

We had "it" early in the cats game, then we didn't, then at the end, we got "it" back again

Sounds ridiculous don't you think?

You can apply the same theory to pretty much every game

It's a fictional cliche

Drill down to the setups, structure, tactics, gamestyle

 

[Arr0w]

He has enough injured players to deal with already. That doesn't make for an argument.

There's no point calling out players to be dropped when there's nothing better behind them. That proof has already been on display.

Harks you can't play players that are horrendously out of form due to structure

 

[thylacine60]

Sorry but this is really hypocritical. You have targeted multiple people in this thread you disagree with. Not sure if that is just your disappointment at the loss, or your posting style. But to pot others for what you are clearly doing lacks self awareness.

Though TBH I agree with your critique of most of them and it is entertaining. So if you don't mind being a hypocrite carry on

Poor old Thy. Flies the flag for the club and gets pinged retaliating!

 

[FRUMPY]

Do you really think that the defenders are the reason the other teams are scoring so easily against Carlton?

absolutely not but you can be a leader for other areas on the ground through voice and instruction

 

[FRUMPY]

Okay, without going through each game.

<insert any term you want>, culture, composure, mentality, etc. For the example, let's call it, "it"

We had "it" early in the cats game, then we didn't, then at the end, we got "it" back again

Sounds ridiculous don't you think?

You can apply the same theory to pretty much every game

It's a fictional cliche

Drill down to the setups, structure, tactics, gamestyle

You can apply the same simplicity of your argument to your reasoning - so we had the setups, structure, tactics, gameplan early in the cats game, then we didnt, then at the end we got it back again.

 

[JD_2020]

Yeah. The chair off would have been fine if we won.

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Would have still looked a bit soft and unprofessional, but they got the job done on the day so it could be overlooked.

Job not done at all and then that.... Not what winners culture would be proud of

 

[blue healer]

Poor old Thy. Flies the flag for the club and gets pinged retaliating!

There's always gotta be a "man in Black"

 

[JustaBattler]

absolutely not but you can be a leader for other areas on the ground through voice and instruction

Look to the coach's game plan Frumpy - he turned his back on what got him the job in the first place - our game style this year has gone backwards every week. We are bleeding goals because the side is playing scared - the opposition isn't worried about Carlton's fast aggressive football style anymore- it doesn't exist.

 

[HBF]

hiding

Not good enough. LIFT!