Toast 2021 Leadership Group - Heppell (captain), Hurley, Merrett, McGrath (joint vice-captains)

[Mr Bultitude]

Heppell Captain.

Leadership group Hurley, Merrett and McGrath.

Shook.

 

[Fin ice Smuggler]

scrap the leadership group and tell them in the pre season to put their hand up and earn it. Simplify the group.

 

[Swerving Irv]

For a club that loves to draft Brighton choirboys, there's an awful lot of choir leaders missing. Any chance we can start picking up a few tough cheap and nasties?

 

[eth-dog]

So if it's drilled in to them, then the coaches must know who the leaders are right? Which means they're somehow known, perhaps nominated, perhaps there's even a group of them.

Look at the two players most are suggesting to be captain next year if it isn't Heppell. McGrath and Saad. Two players that have never been in a formalised leadership group in their time at the club, nor was Saad in a formalised group at his former club.

It's almost as if the pair set standards and lead by example and instruction without needing to be part of any formalised group because said formalised group is irrelevant to being a leader.

 

[owen87]

Look at the two players most are suggesting to be captain next year if it isn't Heppell. McGrath and Saad. Two players that have never been in a formalised leadership group in their time at the club, nor was Saad in a formalised group at his former club.

It's almost as if the pair set standards and lead by example and instruction without needing to be part of any formalised group because said formalised group is irrelevant to being a leader.

So the team that clearly lacks leadership, shouldn't reward those displaying the most leadership? Makes sense.

 

[citizen-erased]

2 years too late and wasn't the right choice post-Jobe.
we aren't blessed with a lot of young leaders right now, however;

C: Merrett
VC: Saad
VC: Smith

 

[Lore]

I'm not sure the playing group should be setting their own standards. They're very gifted athletes, but they're young guys and should be given some direction, in my opinion.

Good thing I didn't say they'd be setting their own standards then I guess!

You can coach leadership, there's nothing stopping the coaches or Jason Ball or whoever we have doing leadership stuff from suggesting strategies for how they might hold each other up to a standard. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the players already have a fine/penalty system for particular things that shouldn't happen around the club, like being late to training. You'd expect things like skin folds and beep tests would have standards set by the strength and conditioning people in conjunction with the coaches, but the penalty system could still be player driven.


What I actually said about coming up with something themselves was about their values, not standards. They're young men, not five year olds. I think they are capable of articulating their values – something like effort, teamwork, fairness, competitive spirit, communication would be expected. Those values would be used to rate their team mates and determine the leadership group, which as far as I know is what they already do. The key aspect of what I was saying was that the outcome of the player vote should be respected. There have been rumours over the last couple of years that the players have voted and then the leadership group didn't reflect the vote, someone else apparently decided to appoint leaders that didn't score the highest in the player vote, e.g. like the young leaders group we had in 2018 or so.

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

For a club that loves to draft Brighton choirboys, there's an awful lot of choir leaders missing. Any chance we can start picking up a few tough cheap and nasties?

Someone like Sicily would be nice. A bit of white line wouldn't go astray...

 

[ant555]

Saad?

Draper into the leadership group next year

Too early for Draper but a yes to Saad if that was something that interested him.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

For mine:
2021: Merrett captain, McGrath vice
2022 or 23, McGrath takes over.

 

[ant555]

For mine:
2021: Merrett captain, McGrath vice
2022 or 23, McGrath takes over.

The bloke who got voted out of the leadership by the players because he can not defend as captain. Not sure that is going to work.

 

[citizen-erased]

The bloke who got voted out of the leadership by the players because he can not defend as captain. Not sure that is going to work.

the fact this group voted him out makes me think perhaps he is the man for the job.

Kid stepped in and did a good job in 2016 in his 3rd season.
He took the demotion on the chin
If he's watched Zaka take his place on the basis of "team defence" and still turned up to work, that's a tick in my book

 

[bombreys]

Tough one. Still think McGrath's a bit young. Would rather wait until around 2022 for him.

But in saying that, there's not really an ideal candidate to take over for Heppell.

I'd probably leave it as Heppell for another year or two, then hand it over to McGrath.

If Heppell says he no longer wants it - a lot won't like this, but I'd give it to Hooker for a year, then see if McGrath's ready end of year.

 

[ghostdog]

Look at the two players most are suggesting to be captain next year if it isn't Heppell. McGrath and Saad. Two players that have never been in a formalised leadership group in their time at the club, nor was Saad in a formalised group at his former club.

It's almost as if the pair set standards and lead by example and instruction without needing to be part of any formalised group because said formalised group is irrelevant to being a leader.

owen87, Bunk Moreland eth-dog, it sounds to me like there is confusion about the difference between leadership and authority. I understand the notion that leadership simply exists and is demonstrated through action. Authority, though, is the reason why some players will actually listen to the advice of others; their rank (for want of a better word) is club sanctioned and sanctioned by their peers. It provides the group with structure because those without authority can be compelled to listen to those with it, and must act on the directives given to them within that structure.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

owen87, Bunk Moreland eth-dog, it sounds to me like there is confusion about the difference between leadership and authority. I understand the notion that leadership simply exists and is demonstrated through action. Authority, though, is the reason why some players will actually listen to the advice of others; their rank (for want of a better word) is club sanctioned and sanctioned by their peers. It provides the group with structure because those without authority can be compelled to listen to those with it, and must act on the directives given to them within that structure.

Exactly. No structure is a recipe for the disaster.

 

[justlookingaround]

McGrath is still too young imo...
I wonder if there’s more to Merrett not being a part of the leadership group, I know he has outside endeavours from footy like he runs a gym, maybe he doesn’t allocate enough time to the playing group a la Nat Fyfe?

I think we need a coach to play bad cop... Rutten seems very much ‘one of the boys’ - Luke Hodge is probably ungettable since he has no ties to the club... wonder if it’d be worth sussing out getting Goddard back at the club.

 

[Westlo]

Make Merrett captain, Shiel vice.

The fact Merrett got voted out for being to hard while someone who tried to jump ship got voted in (and promptly went wtf? No thanks) is laughable, take the choice out of these donkeys hands.

Edit - lol Merrett got voted out for lack of team defense? Yet Zaka got voted in, ******* hell lol.

 

[ant555]

the fact this group voted him out makes me think perhaps he is the man for the job.

Kid stepped in and did a good job in 2016 in his 3rd season.
He took the demotion on the chin
If he's watched Zaka take his place on the basis of "team defence" and still turned up to work, that's a tick in my book

Still doesn't defend.

 

[Lore]

Yeah McGrath is too young still. He should be leadership group though, maybe even VC depending on who else is in there. But not captain, not yet. Once he is captain I'd look at Ridley to be his VC, in a few years time.

Feels a bit funny to skip Merrett. For so long he was the anointed successor, and then everything just sort of fell apart in his age group. He's at the centre of that Fantasia, Daniher, McKenna, Gleeson 24-26 year old group of players, except that Gleeson, Fantasia and Daniher all had injury woes in the last couple of years and McKenna has had mental health challenges over the same period. It's like his supporters evaporated. Stringer, Stewart, Saad, Cutler, even Laverde have been added to the club in that aged group but don't seem to look to Merrett so much, at least it doesn't seem like they're close.

 

[ghostdog]

Too early for Draper but a yes to Saad if that was something that interested him.

Might that help get his contract over the line?

 

[ghostdog]

Yeah McGrath is too young still. He should be leadership group though, maybe even VC depending on who else is in there. But not captain, not yet. Once he is captain I'd look at Ridley to be his VC, in a few years time.

Feels a bit funny to skip Merrett. For so long he was the anointed successor, and then everything just sort of fell apart in his age group. He's at the centre of that Fantasia, Daniher, McKenna, Gleeson 24-26 year old group of players, except that Gleeson, Fantasia and Daniher all had injury woes in the last couple of years and McKenna has had mental health challenges over the same period. It's like his supporters evaporated. Stringer, Stewart, Saad, Cutler, even Laverde have been added to the club in that aged group but don't seem to look to Merrett so much, at least it doesn't seem like they're close.

Merrett's style of leadership was demonstrated in him pulling Nic Nat's hair and starting a scuffle last year. I wouldn't have voted for him simply on that basis. That's Ben Stratton stuff.

 

[ant555]

Might that help get his contract over the line?

Not sure. Do not know how much he feels about being a leader. 5 years rather than 4 would likely help.

 

[Runk]

Give the Captaincy to Saad.
Make Smith the VC.
?
Profit.

 

[Nifft]

Good thing I didn't say they'd be setting their own standards then I guess!

You can coach leadership, there's nothing stopping the coaches or Jason Ball or whoever we have doing leadership stuff from suggesting strategies for how they might hold each other up to a standard. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the players already have a fine/penalty system for particular things that shouldn't happen around the club, like being late to training. You'd expect things like skin folds and beep tests would have standards set by the strength and conditioning people in conjunction with the coaches, but the penalty system could still be player driven.


What I actually said about coming up with something themselves was about their values, not standards. They're young men, not five year olds. I think they are capable of articulating their values – something like effort, teamwork, fairness, competitive spirit, communication would be expected. Those values would be used to rate their team mates and determine the leadership group, which as far as I know is what they already do. The key aspect of what I was saying was that the outcome of the player vote should be respected. There have been rumours over the last couple of years that the players have voted and then the leadership group didn't reflect the vote, someone else apparently decided to appoint leaders that didn't score the highest in the player vote, e.g. like the young leaders group we had in 2018 or so.

Whoops sorry my mistake, I meant to say values not standards.

I'm sure there are players on every list who could also be very capable leaders. But what if the players who are chosen for the leadership group don't end up having a positive effect on the playing group as a whole? Maybe the players chosen should be sent on some sort of short leadership training, similar to management training in a normal business. The coaches have to do training to get into those positions of authority, but as far as I know the leadership group don't, and it seems that how they get chosen is more like a popularity contest.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Yeah McGrath is too young still. He should be leadership group though, maybe even VC depending on who else is in there. But not captain, not yet. Once he is captain I'd look at Ridley to be his VC, in a few years time.

Feels a bit funny to skip Merrett. For so long he was the anointed successor, and then everything just sort of fell apart in his age group. He's at the centre of that Fantasia, Daniher, McKenna, Gleeson 24-26 year old group of players, except that Gleeson, Fantasia and Daniher all had injury woes in the last couple of years and McKenna has had mental health challenges over the same period. It's like his supporters evaporated. Stringer, Stewart, Saad, Cutler, even Laverde have been added to the club in that aged group but don't seem to look to Merrett so much, at least it doesn't seem like they're close.

Why was Merrett the anointed successor? For the most part it was simply because he was our best young player. Actual leadership never entered into the conversation beyond ‘he’s a good player, he must be a good leader’.

Hooker is probably the only one on the list I’d rate (from what we can see from the outside of course) as a top leader capable of inspiring others.

 

[Yoda_]

The bloke who got voted out of the leadership by the players because he can not defend as captain. Not sure that is going to work.

My thought exactly.

Let's get a bloke who wasn't even in the leadership group this year to captain the club for a year and then move him out a year later.

Succession plans have worked well for us recently, whats one more ey